Confirmed with Link: The "We got Karlsson!" all-day, all-night, party all the time thread (Part II)

[hockeyball]

Disregarding +/-, which in most cases is a meaningless stat, how would you rate Karlsson so far this season - on a scale of 1-10?

Thus far? 7. But I'm confident he'll be a 10 by the end of the year. Just having a rough adjustment period.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Disregarding +/-, which in most cases is a meaningless stat, how would you rate Karlsson so far this season - on a scale of 1-10?

On a scale of Burns being 10, I would say Karlsson is a 6.5-7. I expect him to round up to 8.5-9 but if he can somehow get to 10, that would be awesome.

 

[DeadGhost]

6. He's playing very good hockey. Just not Karlsson-caliber hockey.

 

[one2gamble]

of note the pass to sorenson that was fumbled was magic.....

 

[hockeyball]

6. He's playing very good hockey. Just not Karlsson-caliber hockey.

Honestly, I think Karlsson will be the better coming out of this. I think it's probably been a very weird transition from the entire team being built around him, to having to learn to just be a cog in the machine. A very important cog. Once he gets it figured out, I think he'll be a better player for it.

 

[DeadGhost]

Honestly, I think Karlsson will be the better coming out of this. I think it's probably been a very weird transition from the entire team being built around him, to having to learn to just be a cog in the machine. A very important cog. Once he gets it figured out, I think he'll be a better player for it.

Totally agree and I put my 6 on a Karlsson-scale. I think he's been as smooth. Poised on the PP and moves the puck extremely well in the offensive zone, obviously amazing skater. Defensively not a liability by any means but not amazing, which we knew we were getting.

I think there's times when he's tried to do to much and I think he's forced some shots from the point. I think that speaks to your point about the transition. Luckily those are two things that he can shed pretty quickly. I bet once he gets that first goal it all changes for him.

 

[Coily]

Hopefully the organization doesn't base his contract talks on 1 month out of 6.

I'd rate Karlsson at a 7 just because of his lack of offense, but he's taking pressure away from Burns and it looks like it's making Burns better.

 

[Karl Prime]

Offensively, I think he has to start skating the puck up the ice more often. Whenever he does, it almost always ends in a clean entry because there's a forward open. Having a PDO under 93 isn't helping matters with regards to points though.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

This is like buying a Ferrari only to find out the shit head you bought the car from replaced the the engine with a V6. (I'm upset if it isn't obvious.) This sucks.

 

[Friday]

Starting to worry that DW will sign this guy for 10M / 8 years and he'll play like this the whole time haha

 

[Levie]

Starting to worry that DW will sign this guy for 10M / 8 years and he'll play like this the whole time haha

At this point I'm pretty confident he's not re signing here. So you don't have to worry about it.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

This is going to be a fun thread to bump at the 60 game mark.

 

[Chaotic8]

As of right now, EK earns a solid 5.0...he isn't bad, but he isn't great either. Thus far, I'm rather disappointed with our newly acquired 2xNorris Trophy winner, but I rest somewhat easy knowing that this is a completely different landscape for the man. Once we hit the 25 game mark, things will become more clear. And even more clear at trade deadline.

 

[16w]

This makes it sound like he's washed up which frankly is just bitterman ottawa fan trying to make himself feel better. On a scale of 1 to 100, 100 being his play prior to injury, he's still at 97 or 98% which still puts him in the top 5% of NHL defenseman as far as agility and speed. Frankly I think it's all BS since his transition from backward to forward has looked pretty great especially in the last few games when he's launched end to end on a few rushes. I think some Ottawa fans are just manufacturing stuff to make themsleves feel better.

with all due respect to your experience watching elite skaters, the level of skating you are seeing from Karlsson now is a shadow of his peak. though the present day Karlsson may still be in the upper echelon that fact further shows how insanely quick and agile he was before his injuries, when he was easily in the top 1%.

it may be age or it may be the toll that injuries have taken but what you are seeing is a player that has learned to adapt his game intelligently to compensate for his diminished capabilities.

he used to be able to use his speed to create offense singlehandedly and then still have energy left to cover up for the hole he created by taking that risk. for the last 2 or 3 years he has had to conserve his energy because his skating isn't good enough to be everywhere at all times. peak Karlsson was a thing of beauty.

his vision and iq allows him to remain elite but he will never be the turbo charged skater like he was before, though he might be more effective as he gets wiser at picking his spots and cutting off angles defensively.

Ottawa fans are not making this up to feel better, it's something we've all known watching him evolve as a player...

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

As of right now, EK earns a solid 5.0...he isn't bad, but he isn't great either. Thus far, I'm rather disappointed with our newly acquired 2xNorris Trophy winner, but I rest somewhat easy knowing that this is a completely different landscape for the man. Once we hit the 25 game mark, things will become more clear. And even more clear at trade deadline.

Can't just keep extending his "adjustment period" and make excuses. He has to actually show results. It's nearly 15-20 games. If he keeps this up, he's phoning it in.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Remember.

WJC 08-09: Dominant, voted best defenceman.

WC 09-10: Dominant, best Swedish defenceman.

11-12: Best defenceman in the NHL, Norris trophy.

12-13: Best defenceman in SM-liiga (lockout).

13-14. Olympics: Voted as best defenceman.

14-15: Best defenceman in the NHL, Norris trophy.

15-16: Scored the most points in the NHL, of all defenceman.

16-17: Best player in the playoffs, despite playing on one leg/ankle/foot.

2016: Voted as best defenceman in the World Cup.

17-18: Best ppg out of all defencemen, despite coming back from injury/surgery and playing on an abysmal Ottawa. Had 4 more points than Burns, in 11 fewer games.




In case you think that this guy does not have another 50 gears.

 

[Hinterland]

Remember.

WJC 08-09: Dominant, voted best defenceman.

WC 09-10: Dominant, best Swedish defenceman.

11-12: Best defenceman in the NHL, Norris trophy.

12-13: Best defenceman in SM-liiga (lockout).

13-14. Olympics: Voted as best defenceman.

14-15: Best defenceman in the NHL, Norris trophy.

15-16: Scored the most points in the NHL, of all defenceman.

16-17: Best player in the playoffs, despite playing on one leg/ankle/foot.

2016: Voted as best defenceman in the World Cup.

17-18: Best ppg out of all defencemen, despite coming back from injury/surgery and playing on an abysmal Ottawa. Had 4 more points than Burns, in 11 fewer games.




In case you think that this guy does not have another 50 gears.

He was always bad defensively and received sheltered minutes with lots offensive zone starts in Ottawa. I actually predicted that Karlsson and Burns on the same team wouldn't work...at least with how DeBoer uses his defense. With the Sharks, Karlsson isn't gonna get the kind of usage he's used to. There's also huge concerns about his health. I mentioned that one, too. Skating was always his strongest point and it's trash now. He never recovered from his injuries and probably never will. It was a mistake to trade for Karlsson and it would be an even bigger mistake to throw stupid money and term at him.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

with all due respect to your experience watching elite skaters, the level of skating you are seeing from Karlsson now is a shadow of his peak. though the present day Karlsson may still be in the upper echelon that fact further shows how insanely quick and agile he was before his injuries, when he was easily in the top 1%.

it may be age or it may be the toll that injuries have taken but what you are seeing is a player that has learned to adapt his game intelligently to compensate for his diminished capabilities.

he used to be able to use his speed to create offense singlehandedly and then still have energy left to cover up for the hole he created by taking that risk. for the last 2 or 3 years he has had to conserve his energy because his skating isn't good enough to be everywhere at all times. peak Karlsson was a thing of beauty.

his vision and iq allows him to remain elite but he will never be the turbo charged skater like he was before, though he might be more effective as he gets wiser at picking his spots and cutting off angles defensively.

Ottawa fans are not making this up to feel better, it's something we've all known watching him evolve as a player...

Yeah, sure. Thanks for the story.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

He was always bad defensively and received sheltered minutes with lots offensive zone starts in Ottawa.

SHELTERED minutes?

How can you have sheltered minutes when you play half the game?

How can you be sheltered when you are put on the ice to match up against and shut down Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Kane etc?

You have obviously no clue about him and probably only base your opinion on what you have seen when Ottawa faced San Jose.

In all international best on best tournaments (Olympics & World Cup), Karlsson has been voted the best defenceman.

What does that tell you?

 

[Hinterland]

SHELTERED minutes?

How can you have sheltered minutes when you play half the game?

How can you be sheltered when you are put on the ice to match up against and shut down Ovechkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Kane etc?

You have obviously no clue about him and probably only base your opinion on what you have seen when Ottawa faced San Jose.

In all international best on best tournaments (Olympics & Workd Cup), Karlsson has been voted the best defenceman.

What does that tell you?

Sorry to tell you mate but I'm not from California or a hardcore Shark fan. I'm a Swiss hockey fan following lots of teams including the Sens. Just because I'm probably following the Sharks the closest and just because I used to like the Sens a lot more a few years back doesn't mean that I'm not watching any Sens games. Karlsson played a lot but he did it alongside the teams most reliable defenseman, with tons of offensive zone starts and with others taking the toughest matchups whenever possible.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Sorry to tell you mate but I'm not from California or a hardcore Shark fan. I'm a Swiss hockey fan following lots of teams including the Sens. Just because I'm probably following the Sharks the closest and just because I used to like the Sens a lot more a few years back doesn't mean that I'm not watching any Sens games. Karlsson played a lot but he did it alongside the teams most reliable defenseman, with tons of offensive zone starts and with others taking the toughest matchups whenever possible.

OF COURSE the best offensive defenceman in the universe gets more offensive zone starts, than defensive.

But the difference isn't as big as you make it out to be.

2017-2018 = 55/45%

2016-2017 = 53/47%

2015-2016 = 55/45%

2014-2015 = 53/47%

And he has pretty much always had the toughest match-ups the past 5 years. I have no idea how you could possibly have followed Ottawa extensively the past 5 years, and still maintain that he was super sheltered, being on the ice almost half of every game.

His biggest asset is and has always been to transport (in many ways) the puck out if his own zone cleanly, and as I showed you, his defensive zone starts were around 46%.

You are both statistically and objectically wrong.

I bet you spew mis-information about EK, to pump up the idea that Josi is better (?).

Let's see the defensive zone starts of the other elite defencemen.

Hedman: 46%

Doughty: 49% (48,6)

Burns: 38,5% (!)


Wonder who has been super sheltered.

 

[Barrie22]

OF COURSE the best offensive defenceman in the universe gets more offensive zone starts, than defensive.

But the difference isn't as big as you make it out to be.

2017-2018 = 55/45%

2016-2017 = 53/47%

2015-2016 = 55/45%

2014-2015 = 53/47%

And he has pretty much always had the toughest match-ups the past 5 years. I have no idea how you could possibly have followed Ottawa extensively the past 5 years, and still maintain that he was super sheltered, being on the ice almost half of every game.

His biggest asset is and has always been to transport (in many ways) the puck out if his own zone cleanly, and as I showed you, his defensive zone starts were around 46%.

You are both statistically and objectically wrong.

I bet you spew mis-information about EK, to pump up the idea that Josi is better (?).

Let's see the defensive zone starts of the other elite defencemen.

Hedman: 46%

Doughty: 49% (48,6)

Burns: 38,5% (!)


Wonder who has been super sheltered.

And yet nobody ever brings up burns as the best defensive defensemen in the league like ottawa/karlsson fans do/did with karlsson. So bringing up burns is pointless and does not help your case.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Can't just keep extending his "adjustment period" and make excuses. He has to actually show results. It's nearly 15-20 games. If he keeps this up, he's phoning it in.

If he's phoning it in at a 44 point pace, I'll be glad to see him when he's found his groove here. The team is working out things and the coach decided to bring in Thornton by destroying what was working for them. Karlsson's not playing his best and last night was poor by his standards but I have no reason to believe he won't pick it up relatively soon. And honestly, even if he doesn't, what he brings to the team is of vital importance to their success moving forward and when they make the playoffs.

 

[Chimpradamus]

He was always bad defensively and received sheltered minutes with lots offensive zone starts in Ottawa. I actually predicted that Karlsson and Burns on the same team wouldn't work...at least with how DeBoer uses his defense. With the Sharks, Karlsson isn't gonna get the kind of usage he's used to. There's also huge concerns about his health. I mentioned that one, too. Skating was always his strongest point and it's trash now. He never recovered from his injuries and probably never will. It was a mistake to trade for Karlsson and it would be an even bigger mistake to throw stupid money and term at him.

No, he didn't play sheltered minutes. Where are these myths coming from?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

If he's phoning it in at a 44 point pace, I'll be glad to see him when he's found his groove here. The team is working out things and the coach decided to bring in Thornton by destroying what was working for them. Karlsson's not playing his best and last night was poor by his standards but I have no reason to believe he won't pick it up relatively soon. And honestly, even if he doesn't, what he brings to the team is of vital importance to their success moving forward and when they make the playoffs.

Pretty much all of this.

No one is going to say that EK65 has been at his best since he joined us. But he is still on a 44 point pace. His numbers are not much different from what Burns has had with us in the past, till he figures things out AND the team gets going. There is no doubt in my mind that we need to still re-sign him. The only question is how much he wants. It would be hard to justify paying him 11M when Burns is making only about 9M. But then again, its hard to justify paying Vlasic 7M when you are paying Burns 9M. 11M may just be what we will need to pay him based on market value.

Our coaching questions have been questionable with regards to the vets because it seems like Melker and Jumbo are being played in positions detrimental to the teams success. Maybe Jumbo figures it out and gets things going in a few weeks or months but if PDB chooses to push Jumbo-Pavs till Jumbo gets going, we may not even make the playoffs. I kind of say that tongue and cheek because we are lucky do be in a crappy division and have way too much skill to miss the playoffs despite having coaching issues.