GDT: the Washington Stanley Cup Champions @ the Pittsburgh Not-Stanley Cup Champions | 10/4/18

[CapitalsCupReality]

Unpopular opinion of the night goes toooooooo....

Don’t worry Nisky is just another Caps player he dislikes......

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Is there any way to change your mind or prove you wrong? About anything? You don't believe in advanced stats and you think everyone here is beneath you in hockey knowledge.

So how exactly does someone "prove you wrong"?

Bwahahaha.....good luck.

 

[RandyHolt]

Nisky had a little bit of that drunk look last year, but obviously was a heavy lifter and had a big hand in helping us get our cup. I wonder if he was injured much of the year.

BMac paid a premium to firm up our defense and we got a cup. That premium may lead folks to believe he is overrated but truth be told if he was getting PP1 over PK1 time, his stats would make many believe he is a bargain.

Yep, the world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[maacoshark]

Is there any way to change your mind or prove you wrong? About anything? You don't believe in advanced stats and you think everyone here is beneath you in hockey knowledge.

So how exactly does someone "prove you wrong"?

Show me something other than stats that makes Niskanen a top tier defenceman. I watch every game. That is the best evidence. There is no denying that he isn't playing well. He wasnt exactly stellar least season either. He even struggled a bit in the playoffs last year in a few games. When your shutdown guy isn't shutting down anyone he is a liability.
Carlson who is supposed to be our offensive defenceman and a bit suspect defensively has outplayed all of our other dmen in the defensive zone. I dont think Carlson was on the ice for any of the goals against. It was pretty much Orlov and Niskanen getting lit up.
There is a post on the main boards ranking the top 40 dmen. They only posted 21 through 40 today. Orlov actually made that list. 1 to 20 is supposed to be posted tomorrow. Carlson will be on that list. Maybe your beloved Niskanen cracks the top 20 too. We'll see.

 

[maacoshark]

He’s a 5.7m defenseman, and a top pair on a Cup team. He’s exactly what I think he is, and he’s slotted accordingly in the team’s structure.

I think you expect too much. I honestly don’t know what you think he should be?

I think for a top pairing defenceman and our supposed shutdown guy he should be a bit better defensively. Right now he is only our 3rd best dman. When Kempny returns he could get bumped down a notch.
He is not playing like a top pair. Sorry but I think he is overrated.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Show me something other than stats that makes Niskanen a top tier defenceman. I watch every game. That is the best evidence. There is no denying that he isn't playing well. He wasnt exactly stellar least season either. He even struggled a bit in the playoffs last year in a few games. When your shutdown guy isn't shutting down anyone he is a liability.
Carlson who is supposed to be our offensive defenceman and a bit suspect defensively has outplayed all of our other dmen in the defensive zone. I dont think Carlson was on the ice for any of the goals against. It was pretty much Orlov and Niskanen getting lit up.
There is a post on the main boards ranking the top 40 dmen. They only posted 21 through 40 today. Orlov actually made that list. 1 to 20 is supposed to be posted tomorrow. Carlson will be on that list. Maybe your beloved Niskanen cracks the top 20 too. We'll see.

There are 31 teams, so 62 top pairing d-men. He’s absolutely a top 62 player.

Listen, Orlov is *allowed* to play his daring style because he plays with Niskanen. It’s always going to be prone to mistakes and odd man rushes against. But it also wins a lot of games.

I get your stance. g00n isn’t wrong, in that once you form YOUR opinion, you simply don’t budge. There is no proof that can be provided that sways your convictions. In some ways it’s sdmirable to have such a strong belief system, but when it comes to “discussions” around players and the team....it can get to be frustrating.

My only proof is in what Trotz (did) and Reirden (now) think. They count on Niskanen as much as any of their defensemen. So....if that’s not proof, then I don’t know what is.

 

[maacoshark]

There are 31 teams, so 62 top pairing d-men. He’s absolutely a top 62 player.

Listen, Orlov is *allowed* to play his daring style because he plays with Niskanen. It’s always going to be prone to mistakes and odd man rushes against. But it also wins a lot of games.

I get your stance. g00n isn’t wrong, in that once you form YOUR opinion, you simply don’t budge. There is no proof that can be provided that sways your convictions. In some ways it’s sdmirable to have such a strong belief system, but when it comes to “discussions” around players and the team....it can get to be frustrating.

My only proof is in what Trotz (did) and Reirden (now) think. They count on Niskanen as much as any of their defensemen. So....if that’s not proof, then I don’t know what is.

He is a top 62 dman? Ya so what. Is that something to be proud of? BTW you mentioned his salary at 5.7 mil. When he signed that deal he was the 12 the highest paid dman in the league but he has never been top 12 in the league.
I will conceded one thing. He is in the top 62.
I'll start cutting him some slack when he starts playing like a top pair dman consistently.

 

[Ridley Simon]

He is a top 62 dman? Ya so what. Is that something to be proud of? BTW you mentioned his salary at 5.7 mil. When he signed that deal he was the 12 the highest paid dman in the league but he has never been top 12 in the league.
I will conceded one thing. He is in the top 62.
I'll start cutting him some slack when he starts playing like a top pair dman consistently.

Doesn’t top 60 = top pair?

 

[VaCaps Fan]

@Ridley Simon GMRS!

 

[maacoshark]

Doesn’t top 60 = top pair?

Not really. It depends on which team you are playing on. Look at our roster. Carlson is on our 2nd pairing. Does that mean that does not make the top 62 dmen in the league. No it doesnt. Teams usually dont pair their top 2 dmen together. They spread them out through the top 4. Also some teams have a lot deeper talent. You make it sound as if the top 62 defencemen consist of all the top pairings.
Niskanen is a top pairing dmen on our team but is probably our 3rd best dman. I still think he is a top 60 defencemen. So what. You think your shutdown guy being a top 60 dman is good enough? It just means he is a slightly better than average player at his position.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Not really. It depends on which team you are playing on. Look at our roster. Carlson is on our 2nd pairing. Does that mean that does not make the top 62 dmen in the league. No it doesnt. Teams usually dont pair their top 2 dmen together. They spread them out through the top 4. Also some teams have a lot deeper talent. You make it sound as if the top 62 defencemen consist of all the top pairings.
Niskanen is a top pairing dmen on our team but is probably our 3rd best dman. I still think he is a top 60 defencemen. So what. You think your shutdown guy being a top 60 dman is good enough? It just means he is a slightly better than average player at his position.

In a cap world, that’s fine. We can’t have him playing like a 8-9m player. We couldn’t afford it.

You loved Trotz. Trotz loved Niskanen. If the coach you love, loves a player. Well....then what?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I watched it several times in slow motion from a few angles, Kuzy got all stick. Crosby felt the pressure on his stick and removed his lower hand, flaring it wide, to draw the attention of the refs. He's not stupid, he knew what he was doing.

The stick was between Crosby’s two hands. That’s hooking.

 

[g00n]

The stick was between Crosby’s two hands. That’s hooking.

That's not what I saw. I saw Kuzy tap the stick from underneath and slide up close to SC's lower hand, which was removed from the stick just as Kuzy would've touched it.

 

[txpd]

Is there any way to change your mind or prove you wrong? About anything? You don't believe in advanced stats and you think everyone here is beneath you in hockey knowledge.

So how exactly does someone "prove you wrong"?

I have decided there is no point. A roll of the eyes and moving on is the only real option.

Edit: I am looking for a Wilson and Niskanen for....thread on the trade boards soon

 

[txpd]

That's not what I saw. I saw Kuzy tap the stick from underneath and slide up close to SC's lower hand, which was removed from the stick just as Kuzy would've touched it.

It was a good stick lift. It was entirely legal. That penalty falls completely within the old Semin rep call zone. Instead of the rep being with the doer here, it was on the receiver.

 

[Bananas]

Prove me wrong. Niskanen is probably our most over rated player. A lot of people consider him a top shutdown guy. He isnt even close to one of the best defensive dmen in the league. He might not even be the best on our team.

(Insert image of Niskanen hoisting Cup here)

 

[artilector]

He is a top 62 dman? Ya so what. Is that something to be proud of? BTW you mentioned his salary at 5.7 mil. When he signed that deal he was the 12 the highest paid dman in the league but he has never been top 12 in the league.
I will conceded one thing. He is in the top 62.
I'll start cutting him some slack when he starts playing like a top pair dman consistently.

The proof is more or less in the pudding -- when it mattered most, Orlov and Niskanen played effectively against some of best offenses in the league.

As long as they can do it again -- and I don't see why not -- they are absolutely worth what they are paid (or do you disagree?). And if so who cares about whether they are individually or collectively top-2, top-4, "shutdown" or whatever? They've shown they can handle top-2 duty (and handle it well) during a championship run.

They can take naps and serve pizzas for months during regular season, for all I care, just get ready for playoffs. Carlson has been doing that for ages, heh.

 

[TRASHCAT]

Prove me wrong. Niskanen is probably our most over rated player. A lot of people consider him a top shutdown guy. He isnt even close to one of the best defensive dmen in the league. He might not even be the best on our team.

Kwalimus is that you?

 

[txpd]

With Niskanen as the the RD on the shutdown pair the Caps have won 2 presidents trophies and a Stanley Cup. When they didn't win the cup, they lost to the eventual cup winning team.

In those 3 seasons the Caps goals against ranked 4th best. Their PK was 5th best. You don't do that without some good defensemen and good goaltending. They won the Stanley Cup with Kempny(an unestablished first year dman), a rookie, Djoos, and an old man, Orpik. That would indicate to me that Niskanen, Orlov and Carlson are pretty good. Over the past 3 playoffs Carlson has averaged 25:05 per game and Niskanen 24:56. In those 3 regular seasons Carlson has averaged 23:47 and Niskanen 23:12.

By all appearances Rierden is an excellent defenseman coach and those are the minutes assigned. If 2 is overrated, then Rierden seems to buy into that rating.

You can buy in that Niskanen is overrated but the base numbers don't sell that.

 

[TRASHCAT]

I swear to god if you ruin another board

 

[Ridley Simon]

I swear to god if you ruin another board

No one can ruin this board (and many seemed to have tried, LOL).

Some of the fans have some odd mindsets about things. Old school and new school. It’s never going to ruin it.

 

[Raikkonen]

They can take naps and serve pizzas for months during regular season, for all I care, just get ready for playoffs. Carlson has been doing that for ages, heh.

I agree, but lately, say, last 3 seasons, Carlson has been money all season long. Maybe besides a short stint in October.

 

[Raikkonen]

In those 3 seasons the Caps goals against ranked 4th best. Their PK was 5th best. You don't do that without some good defensemen and good goaltending. They won the Stanley Cup with Kempny(an unestablished first year dman), a rookie, Djoos, and an old man, Orpik. That would indicate to me that Niskanen, Orlov and Carlson are pretty good. Over the past 3 playoffs Carlson has averaged 25:05 per game and Niskanen 24:56. In those 3 regular seasons Carlson has averaged 23:47 and Niskanen 23:12.

Is it common to use logic in USA? Are you sure Russian Hackers aren't typing for you?

 

[maacoshark]

With Niskanen as the the RD on the shutdown pair the Caps have won 2 presidents trophies and a Stanley Cup. When they didn't win the cup, they lost to the eventual cup winning team.

In those 3 seasons the Caps goals against ranked 4th best. Their PK was 5th best. You don't do that without some good defensemen and good goaltending. They won the Stanley Cup with Kempny(an unestablished first year dman), a rookie, Djoos, and an old man, Orpik. That would indicate to me that Niskanen, Orlov and Carlson are pretty good. Over the past 3 playoffs Carlson has averaged 25:05 per game and Niskanen 24:56. In those 3 regular seasons Carlson has averaged 23:47 and Niskanen 23:12.

By all appearances Rierden is an excellent defenseman coach and those are the minutes assigned. If 2 is overrated, then Rierden seems to buy into that rating.

You can buy in that Niskanen is overrated but the base numbers don't sell that.

The Caps were very successful in the system Trotz brought. Last season Reirden was given more responsibility probably to groom him for the head coaching job. He took care if the dcore and the Pk and we went from the number 1 defensive team to a middle of the pack defensive team and our pk was 15th, also middle of the pack. In the playoffs we reverted back to a more responsible defensive system and we went on to win the cup.
Niskanen was a product of a strong defensive system put in place by Trotz. Trotz ran a very disciplined team system. Which is why some younger players were getting in the doghouse. Most people here didnt like his system but it worked.
Guess we will find out about Reirden system soon enough.

 

[maacoshark]

Kwalimus is that you?

Who the hell is that?