I didn't mean to lump everyone in together, some complaints are fair, some I feel are over the top. I don't think Therrien is the brightest coach in the world, but there are worse imo.
Maybe the reason it was failing was because of the roster he was icing and they weren't good enough on a typical night to do what they did last night and the system wasn't the problem afterall? I have np with him starting the year with DD/Patches, most coaches would have done the same, he was a little late to change it up, but DD did put up 51 points in his last 60 games. I wasn't expecting him to be producing the little that he has either, it's not just the production, he's not playing well, but had a nice game last night.
Sure, there are worse. That's not really an argument though.
It wasn't the roster, unless of course you think this roster is a bottom tier possession one that can't outshot or outchance their opponents on most nights. I don't. As I said, we had worse rosters in the past and did better. So we don't really need to guess. We know we could be better.
And if you want to mention roster decisions, then it's on him as well. He decides who goes in or not, and who plays where. He's the one that puts Bouillon on the PP, or sits PK with 5min left, or puts Murray/Allen in over Beaulieu, etc.
Not that obvious, I still think he'll have plenty of struggles there, great game last night, but the book is still out on this. If in another 10 games he's resembling last night, I'll gladly admit I was wrong and he is ready. Some people will cling to the idea until the bitter end, if a better solution is proven, I'll happily admit it.
It is obvious when you look at the fact this kid just strives towards creating plays. The more room you have, the better you'll be. He has more room at center, not only will that help him create, but he'll be able to pick up even more speed.
So yes, I would keep him at center regardless. I'm utterly convinced it is what's best for both him and the team.
I'm not seeing it tbh, PK struggled for a bit early on, but he's rounding into form. I think PK might be making a conscious decision to change his game as he feels he's one of the new leaders on the team. We don't know if this is the coaches doing for sure, that's part of the problem, you speak like this is a fact, there could be more than one reason for this. Could be coaching, could be PK, could be both.
If there is only player that we can be certain was told to change by the coach, it's PK.
Therrien said from day 1, get rid of the triple low 5. He said he wants to make PK into a better person. He also said that PK is good (the year of the Norris) but he wants him to be great. He said he wants PK to learn how to be a leader. He needs to play the clock better/more. Countless and countless of comments from the coach that point towards him wanting to change PK.
PK doesn't go for the big hits anymore..can't even recall the last time he tried. He rushes the puck a heck of a lot less. He's still an awesome talent but I personally preferred the old PK.
I look at all these things too, in fact, watching the games it's impossible not to. I seen a team struggling to make plays, whatever reason for that, I don't know, system/performance, a bit of both. I've seen Markov tee up some pretty nice one-timers to the opposition which is quite unusual for him. I've seen the guys losing confidence and doing things they don't normally do. I don't think this is the coach.
Markov kicking the puck with his skate and ending up on an opponent's stick resulting in a goal isn't something the coach tells him to do. Of course not.
Nobody here is arguing that every single bit of bad play is a result of bad coaching.
But we are a team that constantly get outshot, outchanced, with terrible possession.
You can say it's because we just aren't that good, but I disagree. There's no reason for us to be in the bottom tier, even if you don't like our guys.
And again, if you want to then look at execution. Well, if you can't execute things after a year, then it falls on the coach, especially knowing we don't have a group of guys that are hard to coach/don't listen.
Both the players and Paul said they got along fine, but if he was a good coach, he would have done things differently, surely. Or perhaps Ottawa just doesn't have a good team, and overachieved the year he won the Jack Adams, was the over-achievement a result of coaching or variance. I've never seen anything spectacular about him even when he won coach of the year.
Players can say anything, especially when the coach is still around. Just like Gainey said Carbo was his best hire just like a week or two before firing him.
Ottawa didn't have a good team. It doesn't mean PM did everything good and deserved a pass. Clearly, from what Murray said, PM had lost it.
Again, Therrien, repeatedly used him? Where was the GM at, asleep at the wheel? He gives the coach the players. He could have given Therrien a different roster, he didn't, so imo, some of this criticism is misguided, it should fall on both, Therrien likely preferred the 2 vets, as many stubborn coaches do, but MB could have changed the roster at any point he wanted to and if he didn't like the direction the coach was going he certainly didn't need to extend him.
Bergevin gave Therrien Sekac-Beaulieu-Tinordi.
Sekac was sat after 6 games. Beaulieu-Tinordi in AHL. Therrien wants help on the PP, Bergevin gets him Gonchar, a proven PP performer. PP goes nowhere, why? Because the roster isn't the problem. It's the same at ES.
Last year, Bergevin brings in Vanek. Therrien decides to use him in a role Vanek himself said he was never used to playing in. His addition also just barely helped us improve our possession numbers. How crazy is that?
Depends, we usually mask alot of our problems through special teams. There is more than one way to win. I'd prefer we had a team that dominated it's opponents 5vs5 every night rather than relying on the pp, but we haven't been that team very often, our pp struggles and so do we typically.
Well, that's exactly it. You can see that we struggle at ES, we also struggle on the PP. So what is keeping us afloat?? It's not the system, it's not the special teams. So what's left? Talent. That's what's saving our *****.
Precisely why people are saying Therrien sucks. He's not doing a good job, he's just being saved by the talent and depth on this team.
I mean, it's not 100% all bad. He does some good things, but overall, it's not quite good.
I would say about you being a S&C coach if that scenario were to happen then it would probably be a bit of both. Perhaps your client is a bit difficult, feels he knows better and doesn't take advice well, maybe you have to find a different way to convey your message to this individual. Maybe, there is absolutely nothing you can do, depends on the circumstance.
Well ya, sure, if you noticed that one or two of them were bad vs 18 others. But if you see that it's 2-3 that are good vs 17-18 that are having difficulties, then you'll blame me. That's what we're seeing here. Very little progression from the majority of our players.
I'm a little careful about citing our positive possession in a shortened season as proof everything has changed, maybe we were never that team, others took us lightly, whatever. There's alot of changing parts every year, new addons, players getting older, younger players maturing. Not to mention all the other teams looking to improve their respective roster. I'm not a Therrien fan, but he does some things well imo, the team is resilient and seem to goto battle for one another, I think he deserves credit for that.
I will say that a big reason we struggled a little more in 13-14 is because we opted to kill a solid defensive 4th line. In 12-13, we could use Halpern-Moen-Armstrong-White on the bottom line for defensive duties. That gave Plek-DD some shared offensive responsibilities, with Eller getting a more sheltered role with rookies.
In 13-14, we opted to bring in a goon in Parros, we had to put a dead weight offensive veteran in Briere on the 4th line as well, it was a line with no identity.
So Therrien turned to Plekanec to take on massive defensive duties. Seriously. If you observe how Plekanec was being used, he was getting the role of a prototypical 3rd line checker except with even more ice time. At the same time, Therrien killed his depth by rendering Eller completely useless offensively sticking him Bourque and a grinder.
So I will say part of it was the poor decisions from management to not understand the importance of having a trustworthy 4th line available to you, but at the same time, Therrien took some stupid coaching decisions that made the situation even worse. And there really isn't any excuse for the lack of organization and structure when we played in our zone. It's just terrible hockey. That's on the coach.
This year however, there's no excuse. Our guys should be playing much better at ES. Defensively, nothing is different either. If they turn it around, I will give props to Therrien. Until then, it's on him.
Well of course, so why keep reciting what JM did and what MT did a couple years ago during a lockout season?
To show you that my opinion is not a general one made up from bias.
I agree, seems like management was on the same page here, no?
Or they gave him the rope he wanted to possibly hang himself with.
You can go back to my Gonchar example. Therrien can ask Bergevin for PP help. He gets a nice simple deal in bringing Gonchar, a proven PP performer, here. What happens? Nothing. So, do we have to go after someone else?
You have Markov and PK. After them you have Gilbert-Beaulieu. All four of these guys are good enough to get a PP going from the point. We have enough skill up front to take advantage of playing with an extra man.
It's all about our strategies. It's not the guys not executing, you can't possibly think that. We have the puck for full minutes in the opposition's zone, heck I remember us having it for like 1:50! Yet all we do is cycle it around and try to set up the point. Always. So don't tell me it's a lack of execution. It's a systematic issue.
Just look at the 5 on 3 yesterday. Complete control is their zone, PK and Markov, both stayed high at the blue trying to get their shots set up despite having a ton of room to come closer. It was Pejorative Slured.
And I've seen enough of PK-Markov to know that they're not PP stupid. If they see the room in front, they don't usually sit back.
. My post wasn't about attacking you as a poster, at least I didn't mean it that way. You're one of the best kriss, I just disagree with you here.
