The truth about this team

[Athletique_Canadien]

Also, it should be stated that Gonchar had to waive his NTC to come to Montreal. I'm pretty sure that the conditions had to be provided by MB to Jim Nill to get the waive completed. The fact that Gonchar is seeing icetime very likely has to do more with an MB promise & much much less of MT being smug

 

[habsfanatics*]

Gonchar was just an example of a player that is supposed to help in a department but didn't. You can blame him for it, or you can point the system.

Well I don't have a problem with the roster. I like it. Certainly room for improvement, like any other, but I like it. We can play better. Anybody can blame left or right, at the end of the day, I think we can agree that we should be playing better than we have.

Personally, I believe it's mostly on Therrien for the numerous opinionated reasons I listed in the various posts above.

Gonchar was already a deteriorating asset, the fact he didn't help much is really no surprise. I don't even mind gonchar, reduce his minutes and he can contribute.

I like the roster too and think we can and will be better. I still think Therrien ices lesser players at times, but it's minor concern for me, almost all coaches will play the proven vet over the rookie, this isn't just MT, this is basically a universal practice by all NHL coaches.

I'm just saying these two are a tandem MT/MB they are together more on roster/personnel decisions than portrayed around here imo. I'm not saying MB is bad, in fact, I like most of his moves. I don't sing his praises like some, most of his additions have been bottom 6ers and bottom pairing dman, but he has done a good job of ridding the dead weight, now can he add some impact players with the savings, it's going to be interesting, all in all, I like the direction the team is heading.

I like DD on the 3rd line, I think he's an asset in that role. I think Therrien isn't the greatest, but has his strong points like all coaches. I think the youth that Trevor Timmins produces year in and year out should make this team a playoff team similar to the Red Wings, I don't know other teams as well, but the injection of youth on our teams yea to year seems to be far outweigh most. MB has done a good job tinkering with the spare parts/bottom end of the roster, what he'll do at the top end is more important to me.

 

[Nicko999]

After one effing game where he's awarded an assist on Gally's great shot for basically just being Patches and we gotta award him points well because he's Patches, and an empty netter where instead of helping out on the defensive side he was planted on the opponent's blue line during a 6 on 5 attack. I wonder how many will have the guts to point it out when he pulls that stunt during an important season game or a payoff game and the opponents score?

Patches played well and with some life IN THAT GAME but I'm not gonna wet my pants after one game. I still think Patches is overrated. In some ways he reminds me of Semin in that he scores lots of goals but those goals usually just pad his record and when the going gets tough well the tough just go away. When Patches shows up for important games and series and delivers then I will change my mind. Until then I consider Patches a good hockey player not an elite one.

League leading 11 GWG last season, and our 2 series clincher... It wasn't perfect, but he showed when we needed him.

And on his empty netter, the game was over. Subban was going to ice the puck so he left the zone. Most goal scorer do this.

 

[Kriss E]

Gonchar was already a deteriorating asset, the fact he didn't help much is really no surprise. I don't even mind gonchar, reduce his minutes and he can contribute.

I like the roster too and think we can and will be better. I still think Therrien ices lesser players at times, but it's minor concern for me, almost all coaches will play the proven vet over the rookie, this isn't just MT, this is basically a universal practice by all NHL coaches.

I'm just saying these two are a tandem MT/MB they are together more on roster/personnel decisions than portrayed around here imo. I'm not saying MB is bad, in fact, I like most of his moves. I don't sing his praises like some, most of his additions have been bottom 6ers and bottom pairing dman, but he has done a good job of ridding the dead weight, now can he add some impact players with the savings, it's going to be interesting, all in all, I like the direction the team is heading.

I like DD on the 3rd line, I think he's an asset in that role. I think Therrien isn't the greatest, but has his strong points like all coaches. I think the youth that Trevor Timmins produces year in and year out should make this team a playoff team similar to the Red Wings, I don't know other teams as well, but the injection of youth on our teams yea to year seems to be far outweigh most. MB has done a good job tinkering with the spare parts/bottom end of the roster, what he'll do at the top end is more important to me.

Well at the end of the day, the coach is there to coach. That means he's the one in charge of the strategies. He's in charge of teaching the kids so they can improve and progress. And yes, he decides who's in and who's out. He's also in charge of distributing the ice time and the usage.
Bergevin can be 100% in agreement, or maybe he's for and against some, or he hates a lot of it. We really don't know. Your guess is as good as any other.

So I'll just go with the conventional responsibilities as we know them.
GM is in charge of restructuring the organization from a managerial point of view and he will provide the players for his coach.
The coach is in charge of what goes on on the ice.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Well at the end of the day, the coach is there to coach. That means he's the one in charge of the strategies. He's in charge of teaching the kids so they can improve and progress. And yes, he decides who's in and who's out. He's also in charge of distributing the ice time and the usage.
Bergevin can be 100% in agreement, or maybe he's for and against some, or he hates a lot of it. We really don't know. Your guess is as good as any other.

So I'll just go with the conventional responsibilities as we know them.
GM is in charge of restructuring the organization from a managerial point of view and he will provide the players for his coach.
The coach is in charge of what goes on on the ice.

Gosh, we didn't know that' How did you come up with that novel hypothesis?

 

[habsfanatics*]

Well at the end of the day, the coach is there to coach. That means he's the one in charge of the strategies. He's in charge of teaching the kids so they can improve and progress. And yes, he decides who's in and who's out. He's also in charge of distributing the ice time and the usage.
Bergevin can be 100% in agreement, or maybe he's for and against some, or he hates a lot of it. We really don't know. Your guess is as good as any other.

So I'll just go with the conventional responsibilities as we know them.
GM is in charge of restructuring the organization from a managerial point of view and he will provide the players for his coach.
The coach is in charge of what goes on on the ice.

Sure, but when the GM is sending players to the AHL and acquiring players presumably to replace them, then I think it's fair to assume he doesn't see them as ready as we do and at least has some faith in MT decision making.

 

[rafal majka]

Well at the end of the day, the coach is there to coach. That means he's the one in charge of the strategies. He's in charge of teaching the kids so they can improve and progress. And yes, he decides who's in and who's out. He's also in charge of distributing the ice time and the usage.
Bergevin can be 100% in agreement, or maybe he's for and against some, or he hates a lot of it. We really don't know. Your guess is as good as any other.

So I'll just go with the conventional responsibilities as we know them.
GM is in charge of restructuring the organization from a managerial point of view and he will provide the players for his coach.
The coach is in charge of what goes on on the ice.

Just to focus on offense: Therrien has implemented a dump-and-chase strategy that severely limits both shots and goals. It has been shown that (5-on-5) offensive zone entries with possession (as opposed to dump-ins) generate 2 times as many shots and 2 times as many goals.

http://www.sloansportsconference.co..., Neutral, And Defensive Zone Performance.pdf

Given such a substantial difference, why would Therrien use a system that emasculates the Habs to such a high degree?

My answer: He's incompetent.

 

[SwissLeaf]

Bouillon would be the solution!! (hell, he's not even good enough for the Swiss league!)

 

[Kriss E]

Gosh, we didn't know that' How did you come up with that novel hypothesis?

It's pretty clear you haven't followed the conversation..

 

[Kriss E]

Sure, but when the GM is sending players to the AHL and acquiring players presumably to replace them, then I think it's fair to assume he doesn't see them as ready as we do and at least has some faith in MT decision making.

Maybe. Or he just doesn't want them to rot in the press box or on the bench?
That's why I paraphrased Bergevin when he said he'd be willing to take a step back if it meant playing the kids and living with their mistakes.
Just like in Ottawa, PM didn't want to play Lazare but Murray was adamant that he should be getting ice time.

But as I said previously, it's anyone's guess.

 

[Lshap]

Maybe. Or he just doesn't want them to rot in the press box or on the bench?
That's why I paraphrased Bergevin when he said he'd be willing to take a step back if it meant playing the kids and living with their mistakes.
Just like in Ottawa, PM didn't want to play Lazare but Murray was adamant that he should be getting ice time.

But as I said previously, it's anyone's guess.

The irony is that our defence has proved perfectly capable of making mistakes even without Beaulieu and Tinordi.

Beaulieu and Tinordi are already better than Allen, and have leapfrogged over a declining Weaver and struggling Emelin. They could make our D better right now. Hopefully the slow-as-molasses easing of them into the lineup ramps up over the next three months and we'll have two younger, faster, better-skilled dmen for the playoffs. Pacing them is fine, ignoring them is not.

 

[Kriss E]

The irony is that our defence has proved perfectly capable of making mistakes even without Beaulieu and Tinordi.

Beaulieu and Tinordi are already better than Allen, and have leapfrogged over a declining Weaver and struggling Emelin. They could make our D better right now. Hopefully the slow-as-molasses easing of them into the lineup ramps up over the next three months and we'll have two younger, faster, better-skilled dmen for the playoffs. Pacing them is fine, ignoring them is not.

Of course they are. Beaulieu should have been a regular last year. I don't know why Therrien is essentially doing the same mistake. Even he realized how terrible Murray was all year. He kept using this supposed strong defensive dman in a sheltered role getting a lot of off-zone draws. So he knew all year that they had to be careful with how they were going to use him. It was so bad that they decided to put the rookie Beaulieu in for some crucial games in Boston. To nobody's surprise, except maybe Therrien, our D look instantly better. Not structure wise, but at least we weren't insuring ourselves of being stuck in our zone for the 10 minutes Murray was on.

Therrien started the year doing the same thing, again. It's Pejorative Slured.

 

[Bob b smith]

Allen was getting beat in the last road trip because of his declining foot speed and mobility. Then he'd adjust by cheating and giving too much of a gap to forwards on zone-entries. Playing a bad game, Tinordi or Beaulieu can do better. Even with the rationale that the coach prefers vets this one doesn't make much sense.

 

[Hoople]

The irony is that our defence has proved perfectly capable of making mistakes even without Beaulieu and Tinordi.

Beaulieu and Tinordi are already better than Allen, and have leapfrogged over a declining Weaver and struggling Emelin. They could make our D better right now. Hopefully the slow-as-molasses easing of them into the lineup ramps up over the next three months and we'll have two younger, faster, better-skilled dmen for the playoffs. Pacing them is fine, ignoring them is not.

Our D loves to get a lot of blame. When you look at 1st place Tampa and 3rd place Montreal, the Habs have given up ONE fewer goal than the Bolts. Of course, we have scored 26 fewer goals than Tampa.

I want Tinordi and Beaulieu in the lineup. However, they would have minimal impact on the success of this team. We just dont have the offensive firepower.

I also dont get the Emelin scapegoating. The only D Man with more defensive zone starts is Gilbert. Emelin's GA/On 60 is 1.85 and Gilbert's GA/On 60 is the team leading 1.42.

But if the D needs to be blamed, when will PK Subban finally be held accountable? He has the highest offensive zone start at 54% and has a GA/On 60 of 2.87. Blame Markov, his partner? 51% offensive zone starts and a GA/On 60 of 2.14.

 

[Monctonscout]

Our D loves to get a lot of blame. When you look at 1st place Tampa and 3rd place Montreal, the Habs have given up ONE fewer goal than the Bolts. Of course, we have scored 26 fewer goals than Tampa.

I want Tinordi and Beaulieu in the lineup. However, they would have minimal impact on the success of this team. We just dont have the offensive firepower.

I also dont get the Emelin scapegoating. The only D Man with more defensive zone starts is Gilbert. Emelin's GA/On 60 is 1.85 and Gilbert's GA/On 60 is the team leading 1.42.

But if the D needs to be blamed, when will PK Subban finally be held accountable? He has the highest offensive zone start at 54% and has a GA/On 60 of 2.87. Blame Markov, his partner? 51% offensive zone starts and a GA/On 60 of 2.14.

I agree, I find it ridiculous that some think Beaulieu or Tinordi would be an upgrade over Gilbert or Emelin. Even more ridiculous when you consider the minutes they eat and the amount of those minutes that are against top lines.

 

[Beige Van]

I agree, I find it ridiculous that some think Beaulieu or Tinordi would be an upgrade over Gilbert or Emelin. Even more ridiculous when you consider the minutes they eat and the amount of those minutes that are against top lines.

Fair enough. But most people aren't even talking about Emelin and Gilbert. We're talking about Weaver and Allen. Those are the players that can and should be supplanted by Beaulieu, Nygren, Tinordi..

 

[Lshap]

Our D loves to get a lot of blame. When you look at 1st place Tampa and 3rd place Montreal, the Habs have given up ONE fewer goal than the Bolts. Of course, we have scored 26 fewer goals than Tampa.

I want Tinordi and Beaulieu in the lineup. However, they would have minimal impact on the success of this team. We just dont have the offensive firepower.

I also dont get the Emelin scapegoating. The only D Man with more defensive zone starts is Gilbert. Emelin's GA/On 60 is 1.85 and Gilbert's GA/On 60 is the team leading 1.42.

But if the D needs to be blamed, when will PK Subban finally be held accountable? He has the highest offensive zone start at 54% and has a GA/On 60 of 2.87. Blame Markov, his partner? 51% offensive zone starts and a GA/On 60 of 2.14.

We've given up so few goals because Price has bailed us out.

No question the Habs lack scoring, but part of the reason is the disconnect between the dmen and forwards. Our dmen are mostly slower and older, and have had trouble moving the puck out and covering faster forwards coming in. Not saying Beaulieu and Tinordi would be the saviours right away, but they are faster and have higher upsides than most of our current guys. The way for them to reach their upside is more ice time and experience. Both are young and will only improve. As I've said, that doesn't mean throwing them in too quickly, but it does mean easing them in with gradually more ice-time so that they're mentally ready for the playoffs.

Beaulieu had a taste of the playoffs last year and did very well. Both should be part of the roster next playoffs. The next few months should be about getting them as ready as possible.

No scapegoating of Emelin, who I like. But he's been having trouble. Lots of mental lapses that I hope disappear when he regains his focus. Same with Subban and Markov. The difference is we know these players bring much more to the game even when they make a mistake. Holding them accountable is fine, but that doesn't mean replacing them. Their upsides are too high.

 

[optimus2861]

We've given up so few goals because Price has bailed us out.

To support that point you need look no further than the SF / SA columns. In 30 games, Tampa has surrendered 821 shots against their goalies, while Montreal has surrendered 900. That's over 2.5 shots per game more that we're allowing, and places us 22nd in the league in that column.

The Fenwick number (unblocked shot attempts) is nearly as bad; we've surrendered 98 more shot attempts than Tampa and are 20th in the league. And in Corsi (includes blocks)? Look out below. We're 26th in the league, almost 200 shot attempts behind Tampa, and not very far ahead of the likes of Calgary, Toronto, and Colorado.

So no, we're not playing well defensively at all. Price is bailing us out. Again.