The top 5 playoff performers in the cap era (2006-2019)

[K Fleur]

Ovechkin has superior per game stats relative to everyone in GPG, and trails only Malkin and Crosby in PPG (with a reasonable minimum GP).

So how else can you interpret anyone who takes Kane - who contributes nothing but offense and yet has a lower PPG and far lower GPG - over Ovechkin?

Per game stats matter now

 

[Midnight Judges]

Per game stats matter now

Nobody ever said they didn't.

But there is an obvious and rational reason for per game stats to count more in the postseason than in the regular season: Every player in the NHL has the opportunity to play 82 games in the regular season, whereas players are afforded the opportunity to play more games in the postseason based on things that are mostly outside their control.

 

[JaegerDice]

technically he has a point when ovi was in his peak form the players around him folded big time . I'm sure the numbers will back it up. yes recently he had some great help,but not in his peak.

The Washington Capitals had eight 100+ point seasons, they won the president's trophy 3 times, they won the division 9 times, and made the playoffs 11 times.

There were plenty of seasons where their ouster in the 1st or 2nd round was considered an upset, for good reason. Ovechkin had plenty of help over his career.

 

[Steven Toast]

The Washington Capitals had eight 100+ point seasons, they won the division 9 times, and made the playoffs 11 times.

There were plenty of seasons where their ouster in the 1st or 2nd round was considered an upset, for good reason. Ovechkin had plenty of help over his career.

No, he has never had an elite teammate apparently.

 

[wetcoast]

Henrik Lundqvists game 7 or elimination game stats are probably ridiculous

To be honest I haven't even really thought about goalies but I think he might very well be the ebst post lockout playoff golie.

If you were to make an all star team it would probably go like this.


First Team

Malkin-Crosby-Kane
Keith-Doughty
Lundqvist

Second Team
Zetterberg-Toews-Ovechkin
Pronger-Chara
Quick


Although for goalies there are arguments for Rask, Thomas and maybe others I really find it extremely difficult to separate goalies from teams and systems.

 

[wetcoast]

I voted

Briere
Krejci
Couture
Quick
Kane

I wanted to put Crosby in there badly but I went with players who stepped up their game by a lot in the playoffs relative to their regular season numbers and I thought that the players I voted for had the biggest positive difference between their playoff performances and their regular season performances.

This is an odd take as being the best player post lockout basically takes one out of the running for best playoff performer?

Using this metric Forsberg (who I love a ton) would be by far a better playoff performer than Gretzky then I take it?

 

[JoVel]

Malkin, Crosby, Keith and Kane I think are the obvious choices here. You can then argue about the 5th one.

 

[wetcoast]

The responses to this thread strike me a pretty coincidental - moreso than is likely.

The five best playoff performers all just so happen to be on teams with other best playoff performers?

Seems to me posters are once again having a difficult time separating player from team.

How so?

It can easily be argued that each of those players actual individual performances really stand out, even with their team mates right?

I mean of the top 200 point producers Crosby has outscored his own team mate by 18 points and the next guy by 60 points in the time frame just as one example.

 

[JaegerDice]

The responses to this thread strike me a pretty coincidental - moreso than is likely.

The five best playoff performers all just so happen to be on teams with other best playoff performers?

Seems to me posters are once again having a difficult time separating player from team.

I mean.... doesn't it make sense that the teams with the most elite playoff performers would be the most successful teams?

It's not like anybody is nominating 4th liners from the Blackhawks, Kings, Penguins, etc. These teams were dominant because their best, most important players, at the most important positions, performed at an elite level.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby is also much better than ovechkin internationally.

World Cup MVP 2016
World Cup leading scorer 2016
World championships best forward 2006
World championships leading scorer 2006


While ovechkin has won 0 honours

The irony is that in the 05-06 WC leading scorer year, Crosby then 18 had a 20 year old Bergeron on is line while Ovi had some guy named Malkin...well you understand the irony here right?

 

[nowhereman]

technically he has a point when ovi was in his peak form the players around him folded big time . I'm sure the numbers will back it up. yes recently he had some great help,but not in his peak.

If you removed the 1st and 2nd best playoff scorers from the 2009 Capitals (Ovechkin, Backstrom), you're left with Semin, Green and Fedorov. If you do the same with the Cup-winning Penguins (Malkin, Crosby), you're left with Ruslan Fedetenko and a 38 year Bill Guerin.

Ovechkin had the supporting cast and no amount of revisionist history can change that. I have no idea why many Washington fans like to push the false narrative that the Capitals weren't/aren't a very good team, outside of Ovechkin. The idea that Ovechkin doesn't play with elite talent is so ridiculous that it defies words, especially when he has played with a Vezina winner (Holtby), Norris nominees/caliber defensemen (Green, Carlson), an elite sniper (Semin) and one of the very best playmakers of his generation (Backstrom). I've actually had a debate with several Caps fans on HFBoards that their Cup-winning roster was underwhelming, just because the pundits didn't pick them to win the Cup during pre-season projections, even though they had just come off back-to-back President's Trophies. It's a nonsensical narrative but it still has it's proponents.

Personally, I was incredibly happy to see Ovechkin finally win the Cup and it wasn't because I felt that his supporting cast had vastly improved. Instead, it was Ovechkin who had grown so much as a player (especially under Trotz) that he showed he now had what it took to lead a team to victory and win it all.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

Crosby clearly has the best resume in terms of individual Cup runs, other individual playoff runs, individual series and career points/PPG in addition to being the clearly superior 2-way forward and leader.

You can argue that Malkin has the best playoff run of the era but only by a somewhat slim margin over Crosby when you consider the circumstances in the 2009 SCF. Crosby has been the better player in their other three Cup runs and three SCFs.

What circumstances are those? I agree I think Crosby edges out Malkin for career playoffs. But not in 2009. Malkin did more with lesser line mates. He had 8 points in the final. Also curious what individual series you are referring to that beats Malkin vs the Hurricanes.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If you removed the 1st and 2nd best playoff scorers from the 2009 Capitals (Ovechkin, Backstrom), you're left with Semin, Green and Fedorov. If you do the same with the Cup-winning Penguins (Malkin, Crosby), you're left with Ruslan Fedetenko and a 38 year Bill Guerin.

Ovechkin had the supporting cast and no amount of revisionist history can change that.

Do you think eliminating the massive difference between Malkin and Backstrom somehow isn't revisionist?!?

And how old was Fedorov? Or is mentioning a player being 38 years old yet another special consideration that only applies for Crosby?

And why list three players for the Capitals and only two for the Pens? Could it be you deliberately omitted Sergei Gonchar - who is vastly superior to Mike Green and being debated as a hall of famer? And Kunitz - who was a 60 point player before ever putting on a Pens jersey?

Your post is fundamentally dishonest.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Personally, I was incredibly happy to see Ovechkin finally win the Cup and it wasn't because I felt that his supporting cast had vastly improved. Instead, it was Ovechkin who had grown so much as a player (especially under Trotz) that he showed he now had what it took to lead a team to victory and win it all.

That's the dumbed-down national media narrative. Spoon fed by Pierre McGuire and others with no real basis in reality.

 

[JoVel]

The responses to this thread strike me a pretty coincidental - moreso than is likely.

The five best playoff performers all just so happen to be on teams with other best playoff performers?

Seems to me posters are once again having a difficult time separating player from team.

I got a crazy theory. Maybe, just maybe, good player performances lead to good team success. I know, crazy thought.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

the biggest reason for Kane, despite his excellent overall numbers is his scoring in elimination games which quite simply is out of this world.

When the deciding game in a series is on the line Kane is simply the best producer since the lockout.

In games where his team could clinch the series, stave off elimination, or a game 7, Patrick Kane has 48 points in 35 games
20 goals, 28 assists.
He also has 3 series-clinching-OT goals (Wild, Flyers, and Kings)

I did a little research and Zetterberg, Briere and very surprising Derrick Brassard do really well here as well.

Yeah, as a guy whose team had to play against Kane in deep playoff series...the guy is terrifying early in a series. Late in a series? He's got the Justin Williams "it" factor in a better scorer's skillset. Utterly something else entirely. You just know he's going to do something.

And what about when you've got only 1 elite player who performs well under pressure? You arbitrarily conclude that they must not be among the best, whereas I think player acquisition is the GM's job and players are not accountable for that.

So what are some examples? Other than Ovechkin?

 

[daver]

What circumstances are those? I agree I think Crosby edges out Malkin for career playoffs. But not in 2009. Malkin did more with lesser line mates. He had 8 points in the final. Also curious what individual series you are referring to that beats Malkin vs the Hurricanes.

I said Malkin has the best playoff run but it is closer than the point totals would indicate and Crosby was the Smythe favourite going into the 2009 SCF. The Wings threw everything into trying to keep Crosby contained with Zetterberg shadowing him along with their best d-pairing in the belief their depth would be good enough to beat the Pens' depth.

Neither player had great linemates (the next best scorer had 15 points) but Malkin benefited from easier matchups.

In terms of best playoff series:

Crosby - 13 points in six games vs. Philly in 2018
Crosby - 13 points in seven vs. Wash. in 2009
Crosby - 12 points in six games vs. Ottawa in 2010

Malkin - 9 points in four games vs. Carolina

You can argue that Malkin's is the best based on PPG but Crosby has more high end ones.

 

[wetcoast]

Do you think eliminating the massive difference between Malkin and Backstrom somehow isn't revisionist?!?

You'd think with Malkin winning the Conn Smythe that the Red wings would focus on shutting him down in the SC finals those 2 years the way you talk about his greatness.

The fact of the matter is that the Red Wings focused on Crosby and took their chances with Malkin.

And how old was Fedorov? Or is mentioning a player being 38 years old yet another special consideration that only applies for Crosby?

Yes he was 38 but I'll take a 38 year old Fedorov (who had an awesome playoff resume) over a 38 year old Bill Gurein 8 days a week.

And why list three players for the Capitals and only two for the Pens? Could it be you deliberately omitted Sergei Gonchar - who is vastly superior to Mike Green and being debated as a hall of famer? And Kunitz - who was a 60 point player before ever putting on a Pens jersey?

Gonchar was 34 years old he wasn't in his peak anymore, Green on the other hand was the top offensive Dman in the NHL at his peak quite a difference here.

As for Kunitz, yes the star of the 09 SC Pittsburg Penguins with a single goal in 24 games after having a grand total of 4 goals in 35 playoff games for the Ducks. But then again he must be great due to that canadian bias thing that only can be seen by some and not others?

Your post is fundamentally dishonest.

See above, the whole narrative that Ovechkin played for lousy teams compared to Crosby is just a complete discredited joke.

 

[Midnight Judges]

So what are some examples? Other than Ovechkin?

I'm throwing some names out there. Some might not be a perfect fit but here goes - from the past 15 years:

Iginla
Tavares
Giroux
Getzlaf
Eric Staal
Kovalchuk
Spezza
Parise

I'm not saying these guys are top 5 or anything, just that they're unheralded playoff performers largely for reasons outside their control. A team can win with these types of players.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Gonchar was 34 years old he wasn't in his peak anymore...

Gonchar was 1 year removed from being 4th in Norris voting.

 

[Midnight Judges]

See above, the whole narrative that Ovechkin played for lousy teams...

You should quote whomever said that.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Do you think eliminating the massive difference between Malkin and Backstrom somehow isn't revisionist?!?

And how old was Fedorov? Or is mentioning a player being 38 years old yet another special consideration that only applies for Crosby?

And why list three players for the Capitals and only two for the Pens? Could it be you deliberately omitted Sergei Gonchar - who is vastly superior to Mike Green and being debated as a hall of famer? And Kunitz - who was a 60 point player before ever putting on a Pens jersey?

Your post is fundamentally dishonest.

Quiet down. Ovechkin has played on the best team in the nhl multiple times and has been past the 2nd round once. Thank kuzy for the cup as well

 

[KareemTrustfund]

I said Malkin has the best playoff run but it is closer than the point totals would indicate and Crosby was the Smythe favourite going into the 2009 SCF. The Wings threw everything into trying to keep Crosby contained with Zetterberg shadowing him along with their best d-pairing in the belief their depth would be good enough to beat the Pens' depth.

Neither player had great linemates (the next best scorer had 15 points) but Malkin benefited from easier matchups.

In terms of best playoff series:

Crosby - 13 points in six games vs. Philly in 2018
Crosby - 13 points in seven vs. Wash. in 2009
Crosby - 12 points in six games vs. Ottawa in 2010

Malkin - 9 points in four games vs. Carolina

You can argue that Malkin's is the best based on PPG but Crosby has more high end ones.

I actually thought of that Flyers series for Crosby after I posted and agree he was pretty darn good in it. I don’t really like the argument Malkin wasn’t focused on as much and had easier match ups. If Sid was facing top lines (which usually aren’t that great defensively aside from Zetterberg in the finals) from the other team, Malkin was getting the shut down lines against him. Crosby had the best wingers by a long shot, it can’t be written off, and had Gonchar on the ice with him for the majority of even strength. Malkin was stuck with Gill and Scuderi. So I still agree that Crosby is number one, but your reasoning with matchups is not a great one

 

[wetcoast]

Gonchar was 1 year removed from being 4th in Norris voting.

Yes and that Norris voting was heavily influenced by PP points.

His actual peak was in the early 2000's with Washington.

The point of the matter is that in both of the 2 years that the Pens went to the finals in 09 and 10, Washington was actually a better regular season team than the Pens.

08-09

Washington 108 (4th)
Pittsburg 99 (tied for 8th)

09-10

Washington 121 points (1)
Pittsburg 101 (tied for 8th)

You should quote whomever said that. Or else perhaps stop lying.

I did and it was you in response to nowhere man's quote.

If you removed the 1st and 2nd best playoff scorers from the 2009 Capitals (Ovechkin, Backstrom), you're left with Semin, Green and Fedorov. If you do the same with the Cup-winning Penguins (Malkin, Crosby), you're left with Ruslan Fedetenko and a 38 year Bill Guerin.

Ovechkin had the supporting cast and no amount of revisionist history can change that. I have no idea why many Washington fans like to push the false narrative that the Capitals weren't/aren't a very good team, outside of Ovechkin. The idea that Ovechkin doesn't play with elite talent is so ridiculous that it defies words, especially when he has played with a Vezina winner (Holtby), Norris nominees/caliber defensemen (Green, Carlson), an elite sniper (Semin) and one of the very best playmakers of his generation (Backstrom). I've actually had a debate with several Caps fans on HFBoards that their Cup-winning roster was underwhelming, just because the pundits didn't pick them to win the Cup during pre-season projections, even though they had just come off back-to-back President's Trophies. It's a nonsensical narrative but it still has it's proponents.

Personally, I was incredibly happy to see Ovechkin finally win the Cup and it wasn't because I felt that his supporting cast had vastly improved. Instead, it was Ovechkin who had grown so much as a player (especially under Trotz) that he showed he now had what it took to lead a team to victory and win it all.

Do you think eliminating the massive difference between Malkin and Backstrom somehow isn't revisionist?!?

And how old was Fedorov? Or is mentioning a player being 38 years old yet another special consideration that only applies for Crosby?

And why list three players for the Capitals and only two for the Pens? Could it be you deliberately omitted Sergei Gonchar - who is vastly superior to Mike Green and being debated as a hall of famer? And Kunitz - who was a 60 point player before ever putting on a Pens jersey?

Your post is fundamentally dishonest.

I will put in bold what you where directly quoting but the OP was pretty clear in saying that Ovechkin had a great supporting cast your assertion that he was being dishonest is intellectually dishonest to say the least given the supporting evidence of the Pens and Capitals regular season finishes in those 2 years.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

If you removed the 1st and 2nd best playoff scorers from the 2009 Capitals (Ovechkin, Backstrom), you're left with Semin, Green and Fedorov. If you do the same with the Cup-winning Penguins (Malkin, Crosby), you're left with Ruslan Fedetenko and a 38 year Bill Guerin.

Ovechkin had the supporting cast and no amount of revisionist history can change that. I have no idea why many Washington fans like to push the false narrative that the Capitals weren't/aren't a very good team, outside of Ovechkin. The idea that Ovechkin doesn't play with elite talent is so ridiculous that it defies words, especially when he has played with a Vezina winner (Holtby), Norris nominees/caliber defensemen (Green, Carlson), an elite sniper (Semin) and one of the very best playmakers of his generation (Backstrom). I've actually had a debate with several Caps fans on HFBoards that their Cup-winning roster was underwhelming, just because the pundits didn't pick them to win the Cup during pre-season projections, even though they had just come off back-to-back President's Trophies. It's a nonsensical narrative but it still has it's proponents.

Personally, I was incredibly happy to see Ovechkin finally win the Cup and it wasn't because I felt that his supporting cast had vastly improved. Instead, it was Ovechkin who had grown so much as a player (especially under Trotz) that he showed he now had what it took to lead a team to victory and win it all.

Tell me who the caps goalie was up until 2012? You mention Green, a guy who didn't know what his own zone looked like. Remember the other great Dmen on those teams? Poti and Schultz lol. Remember the 2C in those years? Oh right, a 40 year old Fedorov. You (and anyone else who can't accept it) are delusional if you think that the caps had cup caliber teams during OV's peak years. Last time I checked, a team with no 2C, no D and garbage goaltending isn't a cup contender. Even Backstrom only entered the league in 07/08, so it's not like he was the player he is today. Did OV eventually get a great team around him? Yes, I'd say 14/15-present the caps have had a legitimate cup contending team because there's finally a 2C, decent Dmen and Holtby. But at his peak? Not even close.

And no, OV didn't magically learn how to "lead" a team. The supporting cast stepped up. Kuznetsov went from 19pts in his entire playoff career to 32pts in 1 run. Backstrom was over PPG. Oshie had by far his best playoff run. Carlson had more assists that run than he'd ever had pts. The bottom 6 scored crucial goals. It wasn't OV suddenly learning how to lead a team, other players stepped up. That's how a team wins.