Boston Bruins The Times, They Are a Changin’

Gordoff

Formerly: Strafer
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I've been a fan since the mid/late 1980s, and I've watched a lot of Bruins hockey. Not as much as some of you, but enough to feel very comfortable weighing in on this.

Ever since Bob Kraft bought the Patriots in 1994, the Bruins have been the most poorly run franchise in Boston. The Bruins have a single paltry championship in my lifetime (born September '74) and have chosen to crawl almost every time when they could have run.

The recent playoff exits, and complete lack of improvement have left me a little disinterested in the Bruins. They are NOT getting better from year-to-year, only worse. The only decent move I can think of that was any kind of upgrade was trading for Taylor Hall. That was awesome. But where is the guy that will take over as the top center once Patrice Bergeron retires? Is Charlie Coyle our next top line center? Nothing against Charlie, but Gary Bettman will never hand the Stanley Cup to him. He's never going to be the guy to anchor the top line. At least he shouldn't be.

Cam Neely and Don Sweeney were great players, and I loved watching them play. But these guys haven't done anything to even sustain the Bruins, never mind improve them. They're from the Harry Sinden loser era, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, two Cups in the last fifty years (three in the last 52) is a disgusting underachievement given the talent this franchise has had over the last half century.

Bergeron will retire, Pastranak might leave, or he might not. He might want to win the Stanley Cup, but to be perfectly honest, I think his chances of winning it here are pretty slim given how long it takes ownership to recognize management problems and fix them properly. "Properly" being the key word. For the Bruins to get better, I think an outside mind needs to be brought in and be given complete reign over personnel and on-ice operations. Someone who has never worked for the Bruins before. If Bergeron retires, anyone should be on the table to bring in the young talent that we need to sustain the Bruins throughout the '20s and into the '30s. The personnel department needs a complete overhaul and better drafting/trading needs to happen yesterday.

Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time being optimistic with the Boston Bruins. The owner has zero track record of making meaningful changes unless the fans stop going to the arena. My personal life has become too busy for me to waste two and a half hours, three nights a week, on a team that is circling the bowl and has no chance of climbing out of it without a massive infusion of top-flight talent. I've been to two games this season at the Garden, and those are the only two games I've watched from start to finish all year.

The management is just so grossly incompetent. If the Bruins operated in the "real world," Cam Neely and Don Sweeney would have been fired by now. What keeps them in their jobs is die-hard fans whose hearts keep them watching and watching (and going to the games). As long as we keep buying, Jacobs won't change the recipe. They're afraid that trading Marchand and Pastranak will ignite a backlash, and rightfully so. They would rather kick that can down the road, and put the rebuild off for as long as possible. It's inevitable, and just a matter of time.

I wish they'd just rip the bandaid off and get it over with, but they'd rather bleed our wallets just a little more... And that's kind of what pisses me off. Winning has never been the top priority, and when they have won, it was kind of a happy accident. I love the Bruins. I really do. But except for a handful of notable playoff triumphs, I've been carrying this relationship by myself since I was a teenager.

Thank Christ for 2011. If not for a Michael Ryder save against Montreal, we're looking at a Maple Leaf-esque drought with no end in sight.
Fantastic post, thank you for saying what I'm feeling and thinking.:clap::bow:
 

BiteThisBurrows

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Feb 11, 2022
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I'm new here so first thing, hi guys and gals. Bruins fan all my life, right back to Bobby (yes, I'm old). It's been a fun ride in recent years but, as I'm sure you all discuss and lament from time to time, imagine the dynasty if they hadn't screwed up the 2015 draft? (sigh). If not for that and some of the injuries to the key players we might have had 5 or 6 cups with this core and then how would they keep Marchand out of the hall of fame?

But I think it's over. They are still one of the best locker rooms in hockey and there's a great team dynamic, they work hard, but they are slow and old in too many places and are being left behind by the speedy Carolina types dominating this league right now. Just don't see how they can tweak this into a real contender. If they can even make the playoffs this year (which seemed like a lock but now not so sure) it's unlikely they go very far. I love Charlie McAvoy, but unless they start adding more fast young talent (better drafts) fast he'll end up cupless until he leaves like Ray Bourque did.

I wish I had an answer, but I just don't see one. The off season moves didn't pan out the way they hoped. Ullmark is meh, Foligno is burnt out, Haula's not bad, Nosek is no better than what he replaced. Too many mediocre guys and a lack of elite scoring talent. Doesn't take you far these days.

So bottom line, while I don't think it needs a total tear down, another deadline deal trading away more of the future for this year is likely to just sink this thing deeper.
 

Gordoff

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Looking back and it doesn't really matter if it's the 70's, 80's, 2000' or later. What is needed is fresh blood in the lineup, a young player that comes in and makes a difference or to complement the old core but to a degree that it lifts the entire team. Most have come from within, some from trades, but, taken the chance when given to them.

After the Cup wins in 70 and 72 the Bruins lost a few guns so they need some new guys stepping up. Enter Gregg Sheppard, Terry O'Reilly, Gilles Gilbert made it to the finals in 1974, 77, 78 almost in 79.

In 1980 it was Ray Bourque, Brad McCrimmon later on Barry Pederson, Steve Kasper, Keith Crowder and Mike Krushelnyski.
Then later Cam Neely, Glen Wesley, Randy Burridge, Craig Janney and finally beating Montreal and two Cup finals vs Edmonton in 1988 and 1990.

1990's were a dull deeper mostly due to not being able to find draft success or not able to sign the best free agents and also Harry Sinden magic trades vanished.

Then something started to happen again in 2003 (Patrice), 2004 (Krejci), 2006 (Kessell, Lucic and Marchand). Looch and Marchy really were longshots, but, were they? Yes, but they willed their game into the lineup. No one would stop them. Together with a mountain of man on and off the ice (Zee) and you had the pieces of another group that would put the Bruins on top and this time on top with a Stanley Cup win. Special players, special persons. A GM who was successful in trades. Smart trades. Almost every player became better players coming to Boston. They were so genuine, so tough, unbreakable. No wonder they went on to win Stanley Cup the hard way. Three 7-game series wins.

That team could have become a dynasty. I never thought I'd say any Bruins team would top those in 1970 and 1972 but dammit the 2011 lineup were right up there at least, maybe even more complete. The core of that group is by and large the same. But, I think in ten years the adds on by younger players as said and mention above has been rather thin.

Two major contributors that really made the team better David Pastrnak and Charlie McAvoy. That's not enough in 10 ten years. Sure Brandon Carlo, Matt Grzelcyk, Jake DeBrusk but they are no Looch or Marchy. Not enough of new blood coming through, bad or simply no trades worth a dime and even worse free agent signings and while drafting could have been better to put it kindly, I wonder if the Bruins relied too
long and too much of the old core.

We talk about 2015 draft being bad but 2012 and 2013 were even worse.

When players have been giving ample chance we do see some sample of players being good in the NHL suddenly, even ones we're written off. Jakub Zboril and Urho Vaakanainen comes to mind and at least surprised me. I wonder what had happen if Jack Studnicka had been giving the go ahead to center the 2nd line after a more than promising preseason.

You need to hang on to your prospects sometimes even if success isn't there on first day. Hell, I remember Bobby Orr first viewed Terry O'Reilly as "I think the Bruins made a mistake drafting that kid".

Every year we want our homegrown our draft picks to make a splash and it's been a while. We need a new Looch, a new Marchy. Tough, cocky kids that won't take no for answer. Love them. I thought Jeremy Lauzon, Trent Frederic and Jack Studnicka might be, but Lauzy's gone unfortunately and Frederic has regressed in my opinion. Jack may still be but today I'm not so sure as two years ago.

So who could be out there. I love Jeremy Swayman, he's confident and smart. But, otherwise I'm not sure. Mason Lohrei is my choice, he dares to do things different and comes away as cocky per my definition. Plus he's successful in every league so far.
Fabian Lysell may maybe once he's fully accustomed to NA life, perhaps Brett Harrison I like him, a true goal scorer or maybe Johnny Beecher will be a better pro than amateur. As a young player you need the chance and if you don't run away with it, be sure to get back at it every damn little chance there is.

But still I ask why hasn't kids like Jakub Lauko had more than one single rep at the NHL and why dear Don Sweeney do you recall 29-year old career AHL Steven Fogarty in stead of Lauko or even 24-year old Zach Senyshyn. No way Lauko or Senyshyn could have been worse. In fact Senyshyn hasn't bad in his NHL games, he hasn't been outstanding either, but, sure adequate. Oskar Steen was pretty much refreshing. Why the need to sign old expensive on-the-way-down players like Nick Foligno and even Derek Forbort when we had them in the house.

I'm more and more moving in the direction of no movement at the trading deadline. I would really love to get Jakob Chychrun (difference maker on a terrific contract) at TDL and sign Tomas Hertl in the summer, but too many ifs. The Bruins without Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand are toothless and not even Charlie McAvoy or David Pastrnak can do much about it unfortunately. Chucky cause he's needed on the ice for 60 min.
Great post. Glad to see you posting more recently.
 

PlayMakers

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I don't see a Jeremy Jacobs team ever "rebuilding."

Plus, I think Sweeney has been quietly retooling this roster during his tenure. Hall, Coyle, Ullmark, Forbort... all guys in their late 20's, all guys designed to bridge the gap from Krejci, Rask and Chara to the next core, a core he drafts. He's got McAvoy and inherited Pasta. Hopefully Swayman, Lohrei, Studnicka and Lysell add to that core. The big piece that's missing is that #1 center.
 
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Ladyfan

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I'm new here so first thing, hi guys and gals. Bruins fan all my life, right back to Bobby (yes, I'm old). It's been a fun ride in recent years but, as I'm sure you all discuss and lament from time to time, imagine the dynasty if they hadn't screwed up the 2015 draft? (sigh). If not for that and some of the injuries to the key players we might have had 5 or 6 cups with this core and then how would they keep Marchand out of the hall of fame?

But I think it's over. They are still one of the best locker rooms in hockey and there's a great team dynamic, they work hard, but they are slow and old in too many places and are being left behind by the speedy Carolina types dominating this league right now. Just don't see how they can tweak this into a real contender. If they can even make the playoffs this year (which seemed like a lock but now not so sure) it's unlikely they go very far. I love Charlie McAvoy, but unless they start adding more fast young talent (better drafts) fast he'll end up cupless until he leaves like Ray Bourque did.

I wish I had an answer, but I just don't see one. The off season moves didn't pan out the way they hoped. Ullmark is meh, Foligno is burnt out, Haula's not bad, Nosek is no better than what he replaced. Too many mediocre guys and a lack of elite scoring talent. Doesn't take you far these days.

So bottom line, while I don't think it needs a total tear down, another deadline deal trading away more of the future for this year is likely to just sink this thing deeper.
Welcome I am old too :laugh:

If they could find a C and a couple of good D men, they could do some damage. Where to find these players who knows?
 

Ladyfan

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I don't see a Jeremy Jacobs team ever "rebuilding."

Plus, I think Sweeney has been quietly retooling this roster during his tenure. Hall, Coyle, Ullmark, Forbort... all guys in their late 20's, all guys designed to bridge the gap from Krejci, Rask and Chara to the next core, a core he drafts. He's got McAvoy and inherited Pasta. Hopefully Swayman, Lohrei, Studnicka and Lysell add to that core. The big piece that's missing is that #1 center.
Good Post but I want at least one top four D too!
 

Gordoff

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to this day I vividly remember a Hockey News Christmas edition with Brian Bellows under a Christmas with byline Harry Sinden’s gift.

Later I was like Kluzak? And who the hell is Brad Palmer? WTF happened?
You weren't alone. It seems that Sinden couldn't resist taking a
a defenseman who had major knee surgery right before the draft IIRC.
 
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KillerMillerTime

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Jacobs has owned the club for 47 seasons, they've made the playoffs 40/47 times. Longest drought being two years. Two of those years (2001 & 2016) they missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. In 2015 they only missed it by 2 points. The other 4 misses were the only truly bad years.

I'd say they have a good stability as an organization, never really bottoming out like we've seen from Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, even the Flyers and Habs at times.

The 2015, 2016 teams had the benefit of playing in an absolute suck division. Toronto, Buffalo and Florida were train wrecks and Detroit was mediocre. TB was the only good team both years. Boston was worse than what your saying those two years.
 

KillerMillerTime

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why would Pasta re-sign as a UFA if the top centers in the system are Coyle and Studnicka? If nothing major happens at center to have a legit #1 on the roster or the near horizon i can't see Pasta staying without a major overpayment

Yeah not exactly a selling point for #88 to stay.
Though its unlikely, they may be put in a position to move him even before next year, if he indicates he isn't staying with Boston.
 

Dr Hook

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The 2015, 2016 teams had the benefit of playing in an absolute suck division. Toronto, Buffalo and Florida were train wrecks and Detroit was mediocre. TB was the only good team both years. Boston was worse than what your saying those two years.

True, but the original point was even with the few poor teams they have had, they have never been just awful like so many other teams have been a different points.
 
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MarchysNoseKnows

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I don't see a Jeremy Jacobs team ever "rebuilding."

Plus, I think Sweeney has been quietly retooling this roster during his tenure. Hall, Coyle, Ullmark, Forbort... all guys in their late 20's, all guys designed to bridge the gap from Krejci, Rask and Chara to the next core, a core he drafts. He's got McAvoy and inherited Pasta. Hopefully Swayman, Lohrei, Studnicka and Lysell add to that core. The big piece that's missing is that #1 center.

I agree. I don’t think Krejci going to Europe was part of the plan. I think Krejci sprung that on them.
 
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PlayMakers

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Good Post but I want at least one top four D too!

That's Lohrei. Or do you mean in addition to Lohrei?

It will be interesting to see what comes of Zboril and Vaak. They both looked like they had top4 upside in their small samples this year. Zboril is a UFA and Vaak is concussed again so not exactly sure things, but for the first time in a long time it looks like the potential is there.
 
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MarchysNoseKnows

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That's Lohrei. Or do you mean in addition to Lohrei?

It will be interesting to see what comes of Zboril and Vaak. They both looked like they had top4 upside in their small samples this year. Zboril is a UFA and Vaak is concussed again so not exactly sure things, but for the first time in a long time it looks like the potential is there.

I put the odds of Zboril resigning here at 12-15%
 

Oates2Neely

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Hall Newhook Pastrnak
*****/ Studnicka/ Lysell
*****/ Coyle/ *****
*****/ *****/ *****

Chychrun/ McAvoy
Vaakaneinen / Carlo
Lohrei/ *****

Swayman

Marchand for Newhook
Debrusk/ Gryzlek for Chychrun
 

ODAAT

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2 Cup finals since the 2010/11 win, had some nice competitive teams, terrible miscues at the draft table in recent years has left this team with a seemingly unsavory succession plan/outlook

I like some of the younger pieces but this team needs a kid or two who comes along that injects some passion, some grit and some energy with some intelligent draft selections, trades and UFA signings

Biggest issue is this IMO, I don`t trust our current GM and Prez to deliver on those and I`m not sold the man behind the bench wants to coach kids/younger lineups but maybe I`m wrong

I`m bordering on a few emotions as we watch Tuukka retire, sadness and gratitude but I`ve also watched enough hockey to know that there are more than a few franchises out there who`d die to have the successes this team has in the last decade or so.

Time for new blood behind the bench and upstairs
 
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Aussie Bruin

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I've been a fan since the mid/late 1980s, and I've watched a lot of Bruins hockey. Not as much as some of you, but enough to feel very comfortable weighing in on this.

Ever since Bob Kraft bought the Patriots in 1994, the Bruins have been the most poorly run franchise in Boston. The Bruins have a single paltry championship in my lifetime (born September '74) and have chosen to crawl almost every time when they could have run.

The recent playoff exits, and complete lack of improvement have left me a little disinterested in the Bruins. They are NOT getting better from year-to-year, only worse. The only decent move I can think of that was any kind of upgrade was trading for Taylor Hall. That was awesome. But where is the guy that will take over as the top center once Patrice Bergeron retires? Is Charlie Coyle our next top line center? Nothing against Charlie, but Gary Bettman will never hand the Stanley Cup to him. He's never going to be the guy to anchor the top line. At least he shouldn't be.

Cam Neely and Don Sweeney were great players, and I loved watching them play. But these guys haven't done anything to even sustain the Bruins, never mind improve them. They're from the Harry Sinden loser era, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, two Cups in the last fifty years (three in the last 52) is a disgusting underachievement given the talent this franchise has had over the last half century.

Bergeron will retire, Pastranak might leave, or he might not. He might want to win the Stanley Cup, but to be perfectly honest, I think his chances of winning it here are pretty slim given how long it takes ownership to recognize management problems and fix them properly. "Properly" being the key word. For the Bruins to get better, I think an outside mind needs to be brought in and be given complete reign over personnel and on-ice operations. Someone who has never worked for the Bruins before. If Bergeron retires, anyone should be on the table to bring in the young talent that we need to sustain the Bruins throughout the '20s and into the '30s. The personnel department needs a complete overhaul and better drafting/trading needs to happen yesterday.

Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time being optimistic with the Boston Bruins. The owner has zero track record of making meaningful changes unless the fans stop going to the arena. My personal life has become too busy for me to waste two and a half hours, three nights a week, on a team that is circling the bowl and has no chance of climbing out of it without a massive infusion of top-flight talent. I've been to two games this season at the Garden, and those are the only two games I've watched from start to finish all year.

The management is just so grossly incompetent. If the Bruins operated in the "real world," Cam Neely and Don Sweeney would have been fired by now. What keeps them in their jobs is die-hard fans whose hearts keep them watching and watching (and going to the games). As long as we keep buying, Jacobs won't change the recipe. They're afraid that trading Marchand and Pastranak will ignite a backlash, and rightfully so. They would rather kick that can down the road, and put the rebuild off for as long as possible. It's inevitable, and just a matter of time.

I wish they'd just rip the bandaid off and get it over with, but they'd rather bleed our wallets just a little more... And that's kind of what pisses me off. Winning has never been the top priority, and when they have won, it was kind of a happy accident. I love the Bruins. I really do. But except for a handful of notable playoff triumphs, I've been carrying this relationship by myself since I was a teenager.

Thank Christ for 2011. If not for a Michael Ryder save against Montreal, we're looking at a Maple Leaf-esque drought with no end in sight.

Outstanding. Very well said, and from the heart. I agree with the vast majority of what you've written.

Some other good opinions and thoughts expressed elsewhere in this thread too. I'm very much up for a rebuild. I wanted it to begin in the last offseason, especially once Krejci left with no real replacement, and I feared that trying to stretch the Cup window well beyond its expiry date would simply be wasting time and delaying the inevitable, as indeed now seems to be becoming a reality.

How does this next phase happen? Well the current management has to go. If they don't then whatever they do is almost certainly doomed to fail. Have zero confidence in Sweeney & co., and a shake up in the scouting and wider coaching/development ranks is very much needed too. And Cassidy has to go. I don't think he's yet proven he's a great coach but he's a very good one and I have little doubt that at some point in the future with the right team he could take it all the way. But his time with the Bruins has run its course, he's running of fumes in finding ways to drive and motivate this group, and he's given no evidence of being the guy who could effectively lead a young, developing roster.

Beyond that, I appreciate the arguments from the 're-tool' camp, but I just can't agree. I don't think the pieces are there to quickly turn this team into a legitimate Cup contender in a couple of years, and the Bruins just staying thereabouts and hoping to get lucky holds no interest for me at this point. I don't think Bergeron goes on much longer, and beyond him they have just 4 A-grade players (Marchand, Pasta, Hall and McAvoy), and a B+ in Gryz. We all hope Swayman fulfils his potential to become an elite goalie, but there are no guarantees with young netminders. Carlo has regressed with concussions and may never get better, the rest are just filler of varying degrees of ability. Marchand will probably stay because he bleeds black and gold, Pasta I am less sure about. If I were him I’d at the very least strongly consider my options, but I can also see him being convinced to stay where he is comfortable. The prospect pool of genuine talent who might elevate to NHL level quite quickly reads Lysell, Lohrei, maybe a couple of others.

So no 1C, 2C & 2RW, need 2 more top-4 D, and a goalie situation that’s still relying on a little bit of hope, plus depth at both ends that needs beefing up in both talent and toughness. And even all that’s assuming Pasta stays. Maybe they get Lysell and Lohrei to fill two of those spots within a couple of years if they are very lucky, but by then Marchand is pushing 36 so another spot needs to be filled. Zboril and Vaak are at the very least fringe-NHLers, but top 4 guys on a contending team? It's a stretch. So filling those holes means overpaying either via FA or trades for 2 centres plus whatever else, and while perhaps it can be done I’m not very confident it’ll produce a really high calibre team. So on balance I don’t think a successful quicker re-tool is impossible but I’m not confident at all on the odds of it working out. In which case more years will potentially have been burned to little purpose.

Therefore I favor a longer, deeper rebuild. That means hitting the draft hard and sorting out the wheat from the chaff in the youngsters for at least 2-3 years and then working from there. It means everyone but McAvoy and Pasta should he want to stay is on the table for trades. Hall is not a guy who will elevate younger or lesser talent, so in this scenario I see no reason to hold on to him. It’s a risky business but I think the potential rewards are higher. It’s what Tampa did and what the Canes are trying to do, and if you get it right it can work really well. If it goes wrong, as it well might, well I’d still appreciate that they tried as long as they make a proper go of it. I don’t see another viable way that’s going to bring them back to legit contention any time soon anyway so may as well go big and hope the pay off is commensurate.

Of course, will the Jacobs actually go for such an option, and properly commit to it for the duration? It's unlikely, has to be said, but they backed a fairly solid rebuild in the early-mid 2000s, brought in some outside guys, and it paid off in 2011. So there is at least a partial precedent there. Just maybe they'll be willing to try it again. Not holding my breath, but I can hope!
 
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BruinsPortugal

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I don't see a Jeremy Jacobs team ever "rebuilding."

Plus, I think Sweeney has been quietly retooling this roster during his tenure. Hall, Coyle, Ullmark, Forbort... all guys in their late 20's, all guys designed to bridge the gap from Krejci, Rask and Chara to the next core, a core he drafts. He's got McAvoy and inherited Pasta. Hopefully Swayman, Lohrei, Studnicka and Lysell add to that core. The big piece that's missing is that #1 center.
Agreed. Thry’ll be this 7th/8th best team, make the playoffs and its all good.
And its a shame because a competent gm would have some really nice pieces to work with.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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Don’t disagree. Now turn Lysell and a 1st into a top 6 C (Hertl or otherwise). And Studnicka at 2C. Is that a bottoming out roster? I don’t think so.

How is that going to be good enough?

Lysell+ 1st won’t land a franchise C and now Stud is a 2C?


I don't see a Jeremy Jacobs team ever "rebuilding."

Plus, I think Sweeney has been quietly retooling this roster during his tenure. Hall, Coyle, Ullmark, Forbort... all guys in their late 20's, all guys designed to bridge the gap from Krejci, Rask and Chara to the next core, a core he drafts. He's got McAvoy and inherited Pasta. Hopefully Swayman, Lohrei, Studnicka and Lysell add to that core. The big piece that's missing is that #1 center.

Which sadly is the biggest singular piece.
They have 2 elite complinentary core players to that C but before they find their next top line C the core is flawed.


I don’t know a team that’s won the Cup without a top line C.
So before that is found I wouldn’t act or make moves like the ”retool” is finished.

It’s just a must fix
 
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