The self-torture, time travelling "What if" thread of Flyers drafts and other decisions

[David St Hubbins]

Clarke made a solid offer to Richter. Clarke did not want to get into a bidding war with the Rangers. Richter wanted to take as much time as possible to improve his situation which was his right as a free agent. Neilson coached JVB in the Panthers' Cup Finals run in 1996. Yes, it didn't work out well but not all that is on Clarke.

First, they passed on Belfour before that, then he won a cup in Chicago.

Then, after missing Richter they chose JVB over:

 

[AdamParrot]

Wow, no one mentioned how we drafted Ricci instead Jagr?

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Wow, no one mentioned how we drafted Ricci instead Jagr?

It has been mentioned several times and the reasons given.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

First, they passed on Belfour before that, then he won a cup in Chicago.

Then, after missing Richter they chose JVB over:

Belfour never won a Cup in Chicago. He did with Dallas.

 

[AdamParrot]

It has been mentioned several times and the reasons given.

In this topic? I didnt see that, so sorry.

But yeah, I understand. BTW I think if we drafted Jagr, he plays all-career for us only. We wouldn't have money problem with Ed Snider like the Penguins had.

 

[Redpath]

Funnily enough, this full game was just uploaded to Youtube only a month ago. The Elias winner is just as gut churning as Kane's goal

 

[Beef Invictus]

Belfour never won a Cup in Chicago. He did with Dallas.

For my money that's the most thrilling Finals goaltending duel.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

In this topic? I didnt see that, so sorry.

But yeah, I understand. BTW I think if we drafted Jagr, he plays all-career for us only. We wouldn't have money problem with Ed Snider like the Penguins had.

Roughly 10 posts above is part of the talk.

 

[AdamParrot]

Roughly 10 posts above is part of the talk.

Oh, Im blind! Sorry!

 

[WIP CALLER]

Funnily enough, this full game was just uploaded to Youtube only a month ago. The Elias winner is just as gut churning as Kane's goal

Even more gut churning than Kane imo. I always felt we were playing with house money in 2010, just a special run that would have been amazing to win but I had no qualms losing to the best team in the league despite the shocking end. 2001 was our year though, we were up 3-1 in that series and the elias goal was the nail in a pretty spectacular collapse. f*** scott stevens forever.

 

[Embiid]

One I thought of is What if the Flyers never make the huge mistake of trading their first round pick in 2008 draft (27Th overall) for Steve Eminger (who onliy played 12 games as a Flyer and a 3rd rounder.
That pick, turned out to be John Carlson, who would have looked pretty good for the last 12 years on the blueline.

Giving up a 2nd and 3rd for Andrew MacDonald (and giving him that albatross of a contract) , those 2 picks turned out to Sorokin (promising young goalie) and Brandon Carlo

and of course trading Bob to the Jackets, after the Flyers goalie coach told them once he got used to North America, he'd be a Vezina candidate. And he was...

WHat if Bob Clarke understood that you do need a quality goaltender and instead of going cheap when Hexy retired, getting Beezer (who was older than Hexy at the time) when Cujo and Richter were availabe. Lindros in his [prime with a solid goalie might have made a difference in a Cup run.

I recall vividly Holmgren's rationale for treating that pick like some poker chip he randomly found on the ground and would frivolously gamble away. He said Eminger was still young and already seasoned, had a good playoff performance and was a right hand shot. Basically, he didn't want to wait for Carlson to become the star that he became.....massive FAIL among many others in his GM stint and we still have Fletch as one of his holdover misguided decisions IMO...

 

[David St Hubbins]

Belfour never won a Cup in Chicago. He did with Dallas.

Caught me day drinking.

but the point stands - passed on a talented goalie that was readily available.

 

[Embiid]

Bobby Clarke saying Roy was "washed up" in Montreal when Roy went off the deep end and was on the trading block. Typical of his assessment of goalies...

 

[Embiid]

More that come to mind.

What if Leon Stickle wasn't the linesman game 6.

What if McCrimmon was just paid and not traded.

Letting McCrimmon walk was McCriminal. Clark is on record for saying it was a mistake he regrets yet his petulance carried over to his public feud with Lindros and his family. Clarke was a great player and leader but as a GM had many critical flaws. And if people who disagree were in diapers or not even born when Clarke was GM in both stints...please refrain from defending him due to his cult status as a player.

 

[lancer247]

My biggest what ifs aren't about organizational decisions:

What if Pelle hadn't gone for a drive?

What if Dmitri Tertyshny stayed on land the summer after his rookie year?

I don't remember Pelle's accident only because I wasn't quite a hockey fan yet, but three active player deaths in 40ish years seems like it's an above-average number for a particular city.

for the long talked about lack of development of the own dmen the Flyers looked like they turned some things around with Tertyshny, Therein and Yushskevich all with in a couple of years.
I don’t think he would have been great but Terryshny was a rough loss. What a freak accident.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Letting McCrimmon walk was McCriminal. Clark is on record for saying it was a mistake he regrets yet his petulance carried over to his public feud with Lindros and his family. Clarke was a great player and leader but as a GM had many critical flaws. And if people who disagree were in diapers or not even born when Clarke was GM in both stints...please refrain from defending him due to his cult status as a player.

We have to put 1981 through '84 in context. Things were dismal for the first time in team history. Bob McCammon and losing 9 out of 10 playoff games in three years, It wasn't a good vibe. Clarke and Barber were done as players at the end of that run. Clarke went from player to being elevated to GM and learned on the go. He hired Mike Keenan. A young GM. a young coach. And young players some of whom were from the McCammon squads/management. But 1984-85 just may have been -- even today -- the third best season in team history. It was fun. The team was rejuvenated. Then they somehow overcame the gloom of the Lindbergh tragedy. Hextall became the de facto face of the franchise. It was almost as glorious as the mid 1970s.

The McCrimmon situation was Clarke's error. He admitted that. But McCrimmon held out and was suspended the prior season and then there was another threat the following season and that was that. Personality conflict. What magnified it was the team's defensemen in the system never materialized and there was a gap. The team quit on Keenan. Things began to unravel. Clarke was fired by Jay Snider. He went to Florida and Minnesota in between stints with the Flyers - the latter advancing to the Cup Finals -- before returning to the Flyers for 1995. He stabilized the goaltending which was shoddy prior to his arrival with the re-acquisition of Hextall. Made the massive move (steal) with Montreal. The team was back in business with Lindros. Hextall was not an issue until that unforgiveable and horrible goal against New Jersey. He was stronger in the 1996 run. He was not the reason the team lost to the Panthers. Then came 1997 and the curtains to the 3-year soap opera commenced. The longest running show in town. From there, it seemed as there was always a surprise waiting around the corner. 2004 could have put a nail to all the strife but then it was injury upon injury. Clarke wasn't meant for the post-work stoppage world. And that was that.

 

[lancer247]

Did anyone mention Carter and Richards instead of Getzlaf and Perry?

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Did anyone mention Carter and Richards instead of Getzlaf and Perry?

I do believe you have the gauntlet.

 

[lancer247]

Carter and Richards were no slouches during their time in Phila and won 2 cups but looking back at the consistency and longevity of Perry and Getzlaf you would have to go the other way on a redraft.

 

[lancer247]

Kevin Marshall in rd 2 just 2 spots ahead of PKSubban.

 

[Embiid]

The Upshall trade was mentioned....it was a tactical mistake by Holmgren. Wanted to send a message to the brew crew. Unfortunately the timing was poor going into the playoffs. It messed with team chemistry. Of course it carried over with the dry island fiasco...