The self-torture, time travelling "What if" thread of Flyers drafts and other decisions

[Strawberry Fields]

Wasn't there a rumor a while back that a Claude Giroux for Paul Ranger trade was allegedly offered and declined?

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Wasn't there a rumor a while back that a Claude Giroux for Paul Ranger trade was allegedly offered and declined?

Yes. Supposedly, Tampa Bay's GM didn't want to move the defenseman.

 

[GKJ]

One I thought of is What if the Flyers never make the huge mistake of trading their first round pick in 2008 draft (27Th overall) for Steve Eminger (who onliy played 12 games as a Flyer and a 3rd rounder.
That pick, turned out to be John Carlson, who would have looked pretty good for the last 12 years on the blueline.

Giving up a 2nd and 3rd for Andrew MacDonald (and giving him that albatross of a contract) , those 2 picks turned out to Sorokin (promising young goalie) and Brandon Carlo

and of course trading Bob to the Jackets, after the Flyers goalie coach told them once he got used to North America, he'd be a Vezina candidate. And he was...

WHat if Bob Clarke understood that you do need a quality goaltender and instead of going cheap when Hexy retired, getting Beezer (who was older than Hexy at the time) when Cujo and Richter were availabe. Lindros in his [prime with a solid goalie might have made a difference in a Cup run.

Cujo and Richter were never coming here. Nobody was telling anyone that at the time though. The Flyers got the only guy they had a chance at.

The Carlson one is the real killer though. Especially given how they couldn’t find any defensemen in the draft and overvalued the guy they did draft (luckily Bob Murray did too)

The Sharp trade does suck too since he was on the other side winning the Cup but it wasn’t the killer that not getting Carlson was. That was Holmgren’s worst move, he outsmarted himself and he never got past it.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

There are some many to choose from.

What if Bernie Parent and Rick MacLeish were healthy for the 1976 Cup Final? Could the Flyers have made it three Cups in a row?

What if Pelle decided to stay home like he planned and never went to the team party? I'm convinced the Flyers would have won the Cup that year and Pelle would have played another decade.

What if the Flyers don't blow that 3-1 lead to Jersey in 2000? That team was on a roll and I believe the return of Lindros knocked the chemistry off. I'm still not over that series to this day.

It is one of those situations we will never know.

The Flyers had a chance without Lindros in Game 5. The Devils won handily. The spector of a Lindros return could have weighed on the team but that was the ultimate year of the never-ending soap opera and with the coaching saga as well, the team used it to their benefit.

Lindros came back for Game 6. What stands out mostly to me was in a scoreless tie, with 2.7 seconds left in the second period, the Flyers won the faceoff and Lindros scored. Except replay showed it was a nick after time expired. Would the 1-0 lead have held? Maybe, maybe not. But if the goal counted and the Flyers win the series in six with Lindros scoring? Now we are taking something special. Something maybe better than Dave Poulin in Game 7 vs. NYI. But "if" can be such a dirty word.

The return of Lindros didn't end well in that series. That is the understatement of the century but "if" the Flyers lost in seven games without Lindros and there was speculation he could have played, there would have been plenty of criticisms from every direction blasting the team for not utilizing its franchise player in a game 7.

 

[swami24]

I will hate Leon stickle to my grave.
I think Forsberg could have been a fan draw, and lead a team with the non traded assets.
We win in 2000 if Steven's doesnt flatten 88.
Pelle was a crushing loss, but Hexy made up for it in 87.
Patrick Kane instead of JVR?

 

[Rebels57]

It is one of those situations we will never know.

The Flyers had a chance without Lindros in Game 5. The Devils won handily. The spector of a Lindros return could have weighed on the team but that was the ultimate year of the never-ending soap opera and with the coaching saga as well, the team used it to their benefit.

Lindros came back for Game 6. What stands out mostly to me was in a scoreless tie, with 2.7 seconds left in the second period, the Flyers won the faceoff and Lindros scored. Except replay showed it was a nick after time expired. Would the 1-0 lead have held? Maybe, maybe not. But if the goal counted and the Flyers win the series in six with Lindros scoring? Now we are taking something special. Something maybe better than Dave Poulin in Game 7 in 1985 vs. NYI. But "if" can be such a dirty word.

The return of Lindros didn't end well in that series. That is the understatement of the century but "if" the Flyers lost in seven games without Lindros and there was speculation he could have played, there would have been plenty of criticisms from every direction blasting the team for not utilizing its franchise player in a game 7.

I remember that Lindros goal well. It was less than a second after the buzzer. Fate was not on our side.

 

[Joeflyers]

I remember that Lindros goal well. It was less than a second after the buzzer. Fate was not on our side.

And they let time run off the clock after whistle right before it. I remember saying they have to put more time back on the clock here. Was shocked that it didn't happen and then of course heartbroken.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'll give you one not brought up nearly enough -- Couturier telling management he wants a bigger role. Hakstol wasn't getting there on his own.

Does the Schenn trade still happen? Does Schenn get a real shot at Center here? Obviously it means potentially no Farabee. Does it actually mean no Frost or does it instead mean no Ratcliffe? Do they still feel comfortable giving up so much draft capital to move up in Round 2 at all?

It means probably a pick well into the lottery instead of JOB. That could have been Farabee or not. Hakstol probably gets fired much, much earlier. Does Hextall go with him or is he still in the job now? They're putrid if he's not playing big Minutes with appropriate linemates. That could trigger a full rebuild as early as 2018.

 

[kudymen]

Yes. Supposedly, Tampa Bay's GM didn't want to move the defenseman.

 

[BritainStix]

I don't like playing this game.

But it also works the other way.

What if the flyers don't trade Alexi Zhitnick for Braydon Coburn.

How about tollefson for Leino.

What if that no name defenseman is still on the board instead of Giroux.

Thats just the last 15 years.

 

[BigToe]

Should've drafted Tolvanen

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Don't do this to yourselves, It's not worth it.

 

[tucson83]

what if the flyers acquired ray bourque?

 

[Normand Lacombe]

It is one of those situations we will never know.

The Flyers had a chance without Lindros in Game 5. The Devils won handily. The spector of a Lindros return could have weighed on the team but that was the ultimate year of the never-ending soap opera and with the coaching saga as well, the team used it to their benefit.

Lindros came back for Game 6. What stands out mostly to me was in a scoreless tie, with 2.7 seconds left in the second period, the Flyers won the faceoff and Lindros scored. Except replay showed it was a nick after time expired. Would the 1-0 lead have held? Maybe, maybe not. But if the goal counted and the Flyers win the series in six with Lindros scoring? Now we are taking something special. Something maybe better than Dave Poulin in Game 7 in 1985 vs. NYI. But "if" can be such a dirty word.

The return of Lindros didn't end well in that series. That is the understatement of the century but "if" the Flyers lost in seven games without Lindros and there was speculation he could have played, there would have been plenty of criticisms from every direction blasting the team for not utilizing its franchise player in a game 7.

MSE, you make several good points and I'm now on the fence about this. On one hand, Lindros was still the best player on the team and was the best Flyer player in Game 6. In no way do I believe Lindros was selfish in coming back as he wanted to help the team win the Cup. On the other hand, the Flyers were badly outplayed by NJ in Game 6, I've wondered if more than just a few players weren't adversely affected by his return. Nonetheless, those same players had over two periods during Game 7 after Stevens' hit to put a puck behind Brodeur and they failed.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

I will hate Leon stickle to my grave.
I think Forsberg could have been a fan draw, and lead a team with the non traded assets.
We win in 2000 if Steven's doesnt flatten 88.
Pelle was a crushing loss, but Hexy made up for it in 87.
Patrick Kane instead of JVR?

The dagger.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

MSE, you make several good points and I'm now on the fence about this. On one hand, Lindros was still the best player on the team and was the best Flyer player in Game 6. In no way do I believe Lindros was selfish in coming back as he wanted to help the team win the Cup. On the other hand, the Flyers were badly outplayed by NJ in Game 6, I've wondered if more than just a few players weren't adversely affected by his return. Nonetheless, those same players had over two periods during Game 7 after Stevens' hit to put a puck behind Brodeur and they failed.

I've heard Keith Jones say multiple times that this was the case -- not just them standing around waiting for Eric to do something, but a sense of the team that worked so hard together to make things happen suddenly having to make room.

Then again, Keith Jones likes to tell stories, so who knows?

 

[Here4ThaLids]

Edit: Already listed, twice!

 

[LI Fly Guy]

The trade missteps:

• Schenn for projects and a cap dump

Joel Farabee alone is looking like he might wind up being a better player. Add whatever you get out of Frost to that, and I’m not sure how this take wound up here.

 

[Redpath]

1987: Tim Kerr being hurt.

2000: Lindros, 3-1, Stevens.

2004: Desjardins being hurt, and Bobby Clarke liquidating Weinrich and Therrien for draft picks with the lockout/cap looming.

2010: Ray Emery being hurt. Competent goaltending wins us Game 1 in Chicago at the very least.

Thinking about 1987, 2000, 2004, and 2010 just makes me sick.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

1987: Tim Kerr being hurt.

2000: Lindros, 3-1, Stevens.

2004: Desjardins being hurt, and Bobby Clarke liquidating Weinrich and Therrien for draft picks with the lockout/cap looming.

2010: Ray Emery being hurt. Competent goaltending wins us Game 1 in Chicago at the very least.

Thinking about 1987, 2000, 2004, and 2010 just makes me sick.

Good thing you weren't around for the early 80's.

 

[wankstifier]

Joel Farabee alone is looking like he might wind up being a better player. Add whatever you get out of Frost to that, and I’m not sure how this take wound up here.

Had to wait three full seasons for equivalent NHL value and that’s if Farabee continues his good play. Also had to take on a total cap dump for two seasons? It’s arguable that Frost + Farabee should’ve approximated Schenn’s production as soon as last season. Still, it was a total short term loss. And Hextall traded the wrong forward!

 

[Larry44]

Bobby Clarke, having narrowly survived Jay Snider's attempt to can him after missing the playoffs in 89-90, steps up to the rostrum.

"With the 4th selection in the 1990 NHL draft, the Philadelphia Flyers are proud to select, from Kladno, Czechoslovakia...(what's his name again???)....Jahromer Jagger.

This is part of it. Take Jagr over Ricci, take Forsberg the next year and keep him and all the other assets they gave up for Lindros. They would have been awesome.

 

[Tripod]

2007 draft...trade to move up in the 2nd round to select a Dman. We select Kevin Marshall who plays 10 games with the Flyers before being traded for Matt Ford.

The next Dman selected after Marshall just 2 picks later was PK Subban.

 

[BillDineen]

Always wished we had acquire Gilmour instead of Bullard

 

[JayB]

What if we would have taken Zadorov instead of Morin. We would not need to watch Hägg at third pair.