The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[sabrebuild]

Was there anything really indicating ROR was a "bad fit for Buffalo" as far as the city goes though?

IMO, it all just boils down to the team needing a big change after a particularly horrendous year and Botts not really having many other options. The bad players on bad contracts are the ones that should've moved... but those are the most difficult players to move for obvious reasons. And he wasn't going to move the younger or cheaper pieces, again for obvious reasons. Not to mention ROR went and painted a target on his own back with those comments. And then the bonus. Who knows, he could've quietly requested the trade. He certainly seemed rejuvenated the second his plane landed in STL.

The only move that could've had that same effect as the ROR trade... with potentially better on-ice results... would've probably been moving Risto. But in the same way Murray brought ROR in to make things easier for Eichel... Botts probably wanted Risto there to eat minutes for Dahlin (even if he's not necessarily great in those minutes).

My only regert with the ROR trade is not getting a better return. That being said, I actually see some potential in Thompson and 1sts are always welcome... so whatever.

How will you feel if a similar trade was done with Risto, Jack or Sam? Or a signed Skinner? Or Dahlin?

I don’t personally give a f*** about O’Reilly. I just don’t understand the get over it mentality. I get that if my wife spilled milk on my laptop by accident because our dog bumped her, ruining my laptop.

This situation is more like my wife stood over me, took a couple minutes to convince me she thought this through and she was confident it would make my laptop work even better, and then when she ruins my laptop, my friend says ehh whatever, at least you get a new laptop, that maybe works as well in the future.

Who cares about the new laptop!!! My conbcern is that my wife is a lunatic who doesn’t understand basics, butvis confident enough to do crazy shittt. I can’t get over it because I’m still living here and I have no idea if that was a one time moment of madness or an event that is likely to re-occur.

In a more direct comparison, it’s like being the Oilers, watching Chiarelli make numerous horrific deals in Boston, particularly the Seguin deal, and then think ehh whatever, hire him, and then being surprised when he trades Hall for an okay defender.

Denial is not great.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

How will you feel if a similar trade was done with Risto, Jack or Sam? Or a signed Skinner? Or Dahlin?

I don’t personally give a **** about O’Reilly. I just don’t understand the get over it mentality. I get that if my wife spilled milk on my laptop by accident because our dog bumped her, ruining my laptop.

This situation is more like my wife stood over me, took a couple minutes to convince me she thought this through and she was confident it would make my laptop work even better, and then when she ruins my laptop, my friend says ehh whatever, at least you get a new laptop, that maybe works as well in the future.

Who cares about the new laptop!!! My conbcern is that my wife is a lunatic who doesn’t understand basics, butvis confident enough to do crazy ****tt. I can’t get over it because I’m still living here and I have no idea if that was a one time moment of madness or an event that is likely to re-occur.

In a more direct comparison, it’s like being the Oilers, watching Chiarelli make numerous horrific deals in Boston, particularly the Seguin deal, and then think ehh whatever, hire him, and then being surprised when he trades Hall for an okay defender.

Denial is not great.

That's an oddly specific example. Did your wife intentionally spill milk on your laptop?


Chiarelli got away with his batshit crazy moves because he was the GM of a then recent stanley cup winner. What people failed to take into account is the fact that Tim Thomas backstopped that team to the cup. Tangentially, i am fairly certain that the current bruins would crush the 2011 champs in a head to head.

 

[Gabrielor]

I’d take the duchene return over what we got from stl.

The nightmare continues.

 

[HaNotsri]

I think it is Forsberg for Erat level considering the dumps we took on.

 

[sufferer]

I’d take the duchene return over what we got from stl.

The nightmare continues.

We ultimately received the same package Philly did for Schenn from St. Louis, except Philly got two 1sts (drafted Frost and Farabee) instead of a prospect and a 1st.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I’d take the duchene return over what we got from stl.

The nightmare continues.

Also bear in mind that deal was made by a GM that most consider one of the worst in the league.

 

[Panthaz89]

I’d take the duchene return over what we got from stl.

The nightmare continues.

obviously since the Duchene return was quite big.

 

[sabremike]

obviously since the Duchene return was quite big.

Dorian got a far bigger return for a rental than Botts got for a player at that level locked up long term on a very reasonable contract. I mean how the hell does that happen???

 

[Chainshot]

Dorian got a far bigger return for a rental than Botts got for a player at that level locked up long term on a very reasonable contract. I mean how the hell does that happen???

Because Botts sucks?

 

[is the answer jesus]

Because Botts sucks?

Amen brother.

 

[sabremike]

Because Botts sucks?

We contracted the eBotta virus. The only known cure is firing him into the sun and replacing him with someone competent.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

How will you feel if a similar trade was done with Risto, Jack or Sam? Or a signed Skinner? Or Dahlin?

I don’t personally give a **** about O’Reilly. I just don’t understand the get over it mentality. I get that if my wife spilled milk on my laptop by accident because our dog bumped her, ruining my laptop.

This situation is more like my wife stood over me, took a couple minutes to convince me she thought this through and she was confident it would make my laptop work even better, and then when she ruins my laptop, my friend says ehh whatever, at least you get a new laptop, that maybe works as well in the future.

Who cares about the new laptop!!! My conbcern is that my wife is a lunatic who doesn’t understand basics, butvis confident enough to do crazy ****tt. I can’t get over it because I’m still living here and I have no idea if that was a one time moment of madness or an event that is likely to re-occur.

In a more direct comparison, it’s like being the Oilers, watching Chiarelli make numerous horrific deals in Boston, particularly the Seguin deal, and then think ehh whatever, hire him, and then being surprised when he trades Hall for an okay defender.

Denial is not great.

That's a bat-shit crazy analogy.

 

[sabrebuild]

That's an oddly specific example. Did your wife intentionally spill milk on your laptop?


Chiarelli got away with his bat**** crazy moves because he was the GM of a then recent stanley cup winner. What people failed to take into account is the fact that Tim Thomas backstopped that team to the cup. Tangentially, i am fairly certain that the current bruins would crush the 2011 champs in a head to head.

Let’s just say she has a temper...ha

 

[sabrebuild]

That's a bat-**** crazy analogy.

Precisely my point

 

[Zip15]

I think it is Forsberg for Erat level considering the dumps we took on.

At least there were no Caps fans trying to defend the indefensible.

Dorian got a far bigger return for a rental than Botts got for a player at that level locked up long term on a very reasonable contract. I mean how the hell does that happen???

Because you decimate your bargaining position when you impose an arbitrary deadline upon yourself, as we did with 11:59 p.m. on July 1, 2018.

I'll say it again: it's utterly unfathomable that we traded the best player in the deal, made it salary-neutral for STL in the first two seasons, and took more than 50% of ROR's salary for Years 3 and 4 in Berglund, and didn't get a single one of Thomas, Kyrou, Dunn. I mean...****!

 

[sabrebuild]

At least there were no Caps fans trying to defend the indefensible.



Because you decimate your bargaining position when you impose an arbitrary deadline upon yourself, as we did with 11:59 p.m. on July 1, 2018.

I'll say it again: it's utterly unfathomable that we traded the best player in the deal, made it salary-neutral for STL in the first two seasons, and took more than 50% of ROR's salary for Years 3 and 4 in Berglund, and didn't get a single one of Thomas, Kyrou, Dunn. I mean...****!

This is the part that kills me. I get right after the trade. No one wants to think their team made a bad move or that ownership might be dumb.

But that people still defend it at this point is mind numbing. At this point you know that the cap dump guys are not even functional vets or even in the league. You are literally down to a b prospect and middle first round pick and a 2nd down the road.

For a great player with term. At this point even if Thompson or the pick turns into something solid, you still got crushed in the trade between cap hits and years given up for development.

And we still have people really arguing that because O’Reilly wasn’t the ideal rah rah leader it was still a good idea. Unreal.

 

[enthusiast]

whether trading the player was a good idea and whether the return was any good are two seperate issues

 

[enthusiast]

And with respect to the milk spilling argument, this is a message board, so obviously you're able to talk about it until the heat death of the universe. But coming up on 8 months down the line, there's not a whole lot of new content here. If my spouse and I were having an argument that lasted 8 months over the same shit I'd probably just file for divorce

 

[Baccus]

And with respect to the milk spilling argument, this is a message board, so obviously you're able to talk about it until the heat death of the universe. But coming up on 8 months down the line, there's not a whole lot of new content here. If my spouse and I were having an argument that lasted 8 months over the same **** I'd probably just file for divorce

Except if you filed for divorce, got the divorce but had to share custody of children/pay alimony/etc, there's probably be the odd complaint from time to time, until that ended (maybe).

Obviously both analogies are somewhat tortured, but acting like people should just be "over it" when the GM making the decision is still running the team, the coach making terrible usage decisions is still making terrible usage decisions and the "proceeds" are questionable or bad, or quit & left town, while the player in question is doing great with his new girlfriend....seems like something you'd still hear complaints about.

 

[enthusiast]

Sure, impotent toxicity would seep into every level of familial relationships. I'd hope we're better than that here.

I don't expect people to be "over it" per se but arguing the same lines over and over just serves to work people up. I really don't enjoy having to play principal here over the same arguments every week.

 

[Dubi Doo]

And with respect to the milk spilling argument, this is a message board, so obviously you're able to talk about it until the heat death of the universe. But coming up on 8 months down the line, there's not a whole lot of new content here. If my spouse and I were having an argument that lasted 8 months over the same **** I'd probably just file for divorce

True, but Sabres fans have never really had a healthy relationship. We should have all signed a prenup.

 

[sabrebuild]

whether trading the player was a good idea and whether the return was any good are two seperate issues

True.

The idea to move a 1st line Center because he wasn’t the Toews level captain, that they never made him anyway, and just an excellent player for spare pieces and future lotto tickets was always a great idea practiced by all of the best teams to great success.

 

[enthusiast]

you can't acknowledge they're seperate issues and then try to lump them together in the same post

bon mots have to be bon

 

[joshjull]

He was on his third team that imploded out of the gate. ROR faced immediate adversity but showed up and worked hard. Blues fans unanimously point to his work ethic and production as the only consistent strength during a very cold streak. That’s not being put in a perfect situation. That’s all about working harder and pushing back to create a better one.

Yeah and for the first time in his career he was facing it with a vet leadership core above him. A group that took the brunt of the heat so he didn’t have to. He could just go out and play his game. Unlike here where he took almost all of the heat. Thus not remotely the darkest days of his career. Think bigger picture and grasp that best situation isn’t about everything going perfect.

ROR spent his Avs years fighting management over his contract and how they viewed him. Not a criticism but something he dealt with an meant he knew at some point he was getting moved. He also played on some pretty bad teams in Colorado. Then he becomes a Sabre and by default becomes one of the 2 or 3 top leaders on the team. Then gets saddled with a ton of minutes and responsibilities due to the lack of depth and overall talent on the team.

When he becomes a Blue he joins a team with an established leadership core thus removing that weight from him. He also no longer has to save the day defensively because he has a lot more teammates to help on that front. So he can just work hard and play his game.

EDIT: None of this is a criticism of ROR though you and others seem to think it is.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Losing ROR almost brings up the same emotions of losing Briere and Drury.

It wouldn't hurt as much if Thompson was actually good and it's going to hurt worse when we miss out on the Blues first and the guy selected afterwards goes and turns into a stud while HFSabre posters can rehash the "it's such a crapshoot" mentality as if bad drafting is excused.

Then we go thru the next decade trying to find that 2C, cycling thru free agents who just never make a difference and failed prospects (Mittlestadt) and nothing ever comes of Sabres hockey.

It's such a Buffalo thing to happen. You had that center core and you thought you knew better so you trade it.