The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)
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ROR with the OT winner vs the Laffs.
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Snippit
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2012
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Move just had to be made though. Culture n stuff
Panthaz89
Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dagger of a goal. I'm really happy for Blues fans.
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
That asswipe Vogl is going to do a mailbag, who wants me to ask him "How are the Blues overcoming ROR's Vortex of Sadness to win all these games?"
Buffaloed
webmaster
Vogl should be fired into the sun. He's the one that gave Pegula the idea that ROR had to go. Botterill and Housley are scapegoats for Vogl.
kirby11
Registered User
It's almost like RoR was never the problem, and having more than 1 line of good forwards helps your top players perform better.
Meanwhile, every Sabres management team of the last 5 plus years: Let's roll out a retired hot dog vendor, a pylon, and some stick tape on our 4th line.
Meanwhile, every Sabres management team of the last 5 plus years: Let's roll out a retired hot dog vendor, a pylon, and some stick tape on our 4th line.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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What happens to culture when the players lose all faith in the coach to icing the best possible team on a nightly basis?
What happens to culture when the players see no accountability for their peers unless they are rookies or players that dare to have a kid mid season?
What happens to culture when their GM sits on his hands watching a team that fought tooth and nail to the top of the standings spiral out of control?
What happens to culture when you trade your most important forward for a crappy cap dump quitter ..another cap dump who cant play the game anymore and some tall kid who really doesnt belong in NHL?
I've never felt this bad about who is leading our organization as I do now.
The GM and coach both need to go.
What happens to culture when the players see no accountability for their peers unless they are rookies or players that dare to have a kid mid season?
What happens to culture when their GM sits on his hands watching a team that fought tooth and nail to the top of the standings spiral out of control?
What happens to culture when you trade your most important forward for a crappy cap dump quitter ..another cap dump who cant play the game anymore and some tall kid who really doesnt belong in NHL?
I've never felt this bad about who is leading our organization as I do now.
The GM and coach both need to go.
AustonsNostrils
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2016
- 7,409
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BuffaloGooner
Registered User
The masochist in me opens this thread every day. This one will hurt for a long time.
Falco Lombardi
Registered User
I've seen this a couple times this morning and was surprised. Who is Vogl that he has the sway to influence an owner? Is he more than just a beat writer?
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
Imagine what he could do if he only loved the game...
God damn, Chris Cuthbert is excellent and needs to call all the games.
And that's really the rub. It's shocking how many people watched his effort and compete level every night, and then said to themselves, "Nah, I care more about what he said in a moment of frustration. He doesn't care about hockey anymore."
Blues fan here. I've enjoyed the honest discussion and perspective from Sabres fans who have known him longer. (I am not here to troll.) We had several Sabres posters that posted on the Blues forum after the trade, but tended to attract mostly people who seemed to be there to enjoy the Blues' early season struggles and somehow try to tie it to O'Reilly. In reality, it felt like he was the lone bright spot in the early season.
I wanted to expand on what Plager said a little bit. I think O'Reilly's motor has been a large part of what has gotten Tarasenko back to being productive. Vlad had to overcome offseason shoulder surgery as well. But I think his compete level is sometimes inconsistent when he gets frustrated. He's never really gotten to play with a center who could set him up so effectively before. Fortunately for Tarasenko, he can create a lot of his own offense. But its not O'Reilly's play-making that is the key here. I think his shift-to-shift intensity and non-stop motor has been what has kept the compete level high, and embarrassed his linemates into doing the same. You don't want to be the guy out there loafing when ROR is busting his ass right next to you to maintain possession in the zone, only for you to squander it.
The Blues season was hanging by a thread. Many teams would have packed it in, just looked forward to the draft, and gone through the motions. We know Armstrong took calls, with almost no one off limits (including Pietrangelo and Tarasnko). But I credit ROR as being the glue that kept the team from caving in completely.
Berube's simpler message has helped. Having a competent goalie that is not Allen has helped a lot, but the turnaround started prior to Binnington's call-up. But I don't think either of those guys could have had enough of an impact to matter if the fighting spirit of the team had left, and I credit ROR more than any other player for that. I feel like he has saved our season.
So has O'Reilly changed? Is he a different guy than he was in Buffalo? Did the trade shock something into him? I don't understand why a GM would part with him unless it was an over-payment or an offer that could not be refused.
I wanted to expand on what Plager said a little bit. I think O'Reilly's motor has been a large part of what has gotten Tarasenko back to being productive. Vlad had to overcome offseason shoulder surgery as well. But I think his compete level is sometimes inconsistent when he gets frustrated. He's never really gotten to play with a center who could set him up so effectively before. Fortunately for Tarasenko, he can create a lot of his own offense. But its not O'Reilly's play-making that is the key here. I think his shift-to-shift intensity and non-stop motor has been what has kept the compete level high, and embarrassed his linemates into doing the same. You don't want to be the guy out there loafing when ROR is busting his ass right next to you to maintain possession in the zone, only for you to squander it.
The Blues season was hanging by a thread. Many teams would have packed it in, just looked forward to the draft, and gone through the motions. We know Armstrong took calls, with almost no one off limits (including Pietrangelo and Tarasnko). But I credit ROR as being the glue that kept the team from caving in completely.
Berube's simpler message has helped. Having a competent goalie that is not Allen has helped a lot, but the turnaround started prior to Binnington's call-up. But I don't think either of those guys could have had enough of an impact to matter if the fighting spirit of the team had left, and I credit ROR more than any other player for that. I feel like he has saved our season.
So has O'Reilly changed? Is he a different guy than he was in Buffalo? Did the trade shock something into him? I don't understand why a GM would part with him unless it was an over-payment or an offer that could not be refused.
Icicle
Think big
- Oct 16, 2005
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Hard to tell, both coaches only utilized ROR in a stupid defensive match-up role with low skill wingers (and Reinhart) while here, and was happy to give him every defensive zone start so he never had the juice to play offense. He never was utilized here in the way STL has. You also can't forget, the guy literally drunk drove a fancy truck into a Tim Horton's and abandoned the scene right after signing his big contract here, before ever playing his first game. You know, the restaurant named after a guy who has a banner up in our rafters. He was signed to a fatter contract than expected so that he could wear a letter and be a leader, but then pulls that stunt before ever hitting the ice. It was a downward spiral in the owner's eyes, who is fairly religious might I add, ever since then. ROR hadn't grown up yet during his time in Buffalo; good for him if the move to STL is what it took to change his life. He wouldn't be the only Sabre who turned their life around last summer after leaving here.
I understood there was some evidence that ROR may not have been the driver, but that he was protecting someone else by keeping quiet about it. Anyway, whatever, assuming he did drunk drive and crash, if that was a deal-breaker why did they not move him right then? It seems like solid play and a clean slate on behavior from then forward would make that issue get progressively smaller, not grow into the nidus for a trade. I read it as that being an excuse thrown out to try to rationalize a decision that was made for other reasons, based on the timing.
But to your first point, maybe he is benefited in St Louis by there not being a 'better' offensive center option. He isn't sacrificing offensive opportunities to have a stronger defensive role, which he excels at. But St Louis has multiple players who are strong defensively, and no one that is cherrypicking his O-zone starts. I haven't looked at those numbers, but he is on Tarasenko's line so I know he's getting a large proportion of O-zone starts.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
The Sabres fanbase loves to have a scapegoat for why the team is struggling.
O'Reilly became that guy for a few reasons that had nothing to do with what he actually brought to the team on the ice.
And once he was traded, the people that were scapegoating him, they approved.
Then the Sabres had the 10 game winning streak and the Blues were struggling, and those same people were feeling good about the move.
Now that the Blues are rolling and in the playoffs and the Sabres have regressed big time, the narrative is shifting.
Personally, I liked O'Reilly as a player and hated the trade. So, I will say that what the Blues are getting is what I would expect given the linemates that O'Reilly has in St Louis.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
Ryan O'Reilly Stats | Hockey-Reference.com
He's getting fewer DZ starts in St Louis, but not a ton less.
His dZS% in Buffalo was 55.1% (& 57.4% last season) and it is 52.0% this season in St Louis.
He's the same player and person. Your coach isn't giving him the most defensive zone starts of a player to ever play 1000 minutes (It was over 32 per 60 minutes of ice time IIRC) since the stat began tracking, usually with 4th liners that are players at a level of talent that Blues fans haven't seen since that 50something point season they had. That's what suppressed his production, every underlying metric you could look at suggested that with regular usage he could have had a career year points-wise.
Give me as many ROR's as you can. Guy never took a shift off let alone a game. Gretzky and Messier couldn't lead this list of players below
My feeling is that ROR was sick of the team pretending like the wanted to win and he was wasting his best years playing on a team that plodded out 10 guys last year that aren't in the NHL anymore.
Jacob Josefson
Victor Antipin
Matt Tennyson
Ben Pouliot
Matt Moulson
Seth Griffith
Josh Gorges
Jordan Nolan
Hudson Fasching
Nick Bapstiste
Chad Johnson (soon to be out of NHL w 2-11 record)
That's 10+ players that played a substantial amount of games for the Sabres just last season. Maybe instead of pointing the finger at ROR we should have built around a top 6 of Eichel/Skinner and ROR/Reinhart.
Icicle
Think big
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Huh? He's just as effectively replaced in the role he was playing by the Girgensons-Larsson duo. People who were giving the coach the benefit of the doubt are turning on him now, as it's clear he is terrible at player usage. People didn't think ROR was providing enough offense on-top of the minutes he was provided. It's clear to all now that if ROR was played with Eichel and Reinhart he would be productive, but there is no evidence he would be making a second offensive line with the chumps we have on wing. The trade was to trade a top piece for multiples, since depth is this team's biggest problem. Having the best 2nd line center in the league is meaningless when you have William Carrier on his wing. We got Thompson, another 1st round pick, and Sobotka and Berglund to fill in 3rd/4th line depth. Unfortunately Berglund was serviceable, but left, and our coach has a hard-on for the dump-in Sobotka, but in concept it's still fine and nothing has changed tune or shifted narrative. Any new coach should be given a benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to learn and change, and Housley has simply out-warmed that welcome.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
It's funny how the Blues season's roller coaster has been more about the coaching and goaltending than anything else.
And now that the Sabres are struggling plenty of people are pointing fingers at coaching and goaltending.
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