Post-Game Talk: The Russian Bear Wakes Up - Pens Win!

[Gurglesons]

I'm sure he does. But I haven't seen much of it. I can't account for why... I would imagine it's all part of that line being a bad fit.

It’s because he isn’t taking shots.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It’s because he isn’t taking shots.

Seem like a common refrain...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't even know if I'd call it a scoring touch. He's kind of a garbage man... which is more than fine. But we're looking at yet another questionable fit for the top six owing to the Jake/Sid perma-duo.

That line needs more hands/offensive IQ. Kap can be the chaotic energy element to that line. But they need a guy with some more reliable hands and can think the O-zone a bit better, there.

That isn't to say there aren't flashes of promise re: Zuck and Malkin. But it's very intermittent. Like... Zucker had a couple good games and went last two without even a shot. Prior to his good games he was struggling. Etc. It's gonna keep going that way.

He can pick the corners and finish better than Dupuis. But I haven't seen much offensive creativity from Zucker where he's the one manufacturing chances or making brilliant passes on a semi-consistent basis.

Honestly, Kapanen kind of falls into that category, but for slightly different reasons.

Which was one of the reasons I kept harping on the fact while we have "good" wingers in the top six, I'm not sure we have enough of the type of wingers our mid-30's stars need at this point in their careers. For lack of a better example, they need more Mitch Marner types than Patrik Laine types.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sheary and Simon both played RW regularly here. When they were with Guentzel and Crosby, who do you think was playing RW?

One of the arguments for Kapanen's relative struggles last year was that he was played on LW.

And Kasperi Kapanen regularly played LW in Toronto. That's the point. You were advocating for having one guy on their off-wing, that was comfortable doing so, and one guy that wasn't comfortable on his off-wing. Kapanen and Zucker on their off-wing would be the same exact thing.

 

[PensandCaps]

Didn't Guentzel play RW when McCann was on the top line and that line was scoring a bunch?

 

[Gurglesons]

Didn't Guentzel play RW when McCann was on the top line and that line was scoring a bunch?

Not at 5v5 but yeah i’d just run that Zucker - Crosby - Guentzel.

 

[Gurglesons]

He can pick the corners and finish better than Dupuis. But I haven't seen much offensive creativity from Zucker where he's the one manufacturing chances or making brilliant passes on a semi-consistent basis.

Honestly, Kapanen kind of falls into that category, but for slightly different reasons.

Which was one of the reasons I kept harping on the fact while we have "good" wingers in the top six, I'm not sure we have enough of the type of wingers our mid-30's stars need at this point in their careers. For lack of a better example, they need more Mitch Marner types than Patrik Laine types.

You and @Andy99 need to learn what a good winger in this league looks like.

Mitch Marner is a top five wing. I’d love to have him, but it’s not realistic to expect our wingers to be Mitch Marner level.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You and @Andy99 need to learn what a good winger in this league looks like.

Mitch Marner is a top five wing. I’d love to have him, but it’s not realistic to expect our wingers to be Mitch Marner level.

You need to learn not to take that example as *literally* what I expect our winger to be.

It was more about an extreme example of a playmaking creative winger versus a winger whose main purpose is to get open and receive passes to finish the play.

It would be like if I said I think Malkin could use a Kevin Stevens-type winger on his line. I don't mean I'm literally advocating for the Pens to drag Stevens out of retirement and put him on Malkin's line.

 

[Andy99]

You and @Andy99 need to learn what a good winger in this league looks like.

Mitch Marner is a top five wing. I’d love to have him, but it’s not realistic to expect our wingers to be Mitch Marner level.

that’s what we need though if we want to be contenders—Pasta, Marner, Ehlers, Conner etc...a wing who can create and finish...a top 10 wing in this league...

 

[Fordy]

this team is not playing well enough to argue that any line is particularly great and nothing else should be tried or that one player is the cause of all problems on their line

 

[Empoleon8771]

Didn't Guentzel play RW when McCann was on the top line and that line was scoring a bunch?

Yes it did, but I'd also point out that I think McCann had quite a few empty net goals on that line. It was productive but I think the ENG inflated it a little bit.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

He can pick the corners and finish better than Dupuis. But I haven't seen much offensive creativity from Zucker where he's the one manufacturing chances or making brilliant passes on a semi-consistent basis.

Honestly, Kapanen kind of falls into that category, but for slightly different reasons.

Which was one of the reasons I kept harping on the fact while we have "good" wingers in the top six, I'm not sure we have enough of the type of wingers our mid-30's stars need at this point in their careers. For lack of a better example, they need more Mitch Marner types than Patrik Laine types.

Zucker was never going to solve any problems or provide much help to Geno or Sid. He's just not that player, and never has been.

What you're seeing is what he is at this point, a middle six winger on the wrong side of his peak that's not going to drive much offense on his own. I'm just happy that he's looked relatively average defensively and is not an active negative there.

He was a bandaid for when Jake was injured, he's a competent winger now, it is what it is. I do think he has enough of an edge and desire to win to turn it up a bit in the playoffs, if we get there.

 

[Gurglesons]

that’s what we need though if we want to be contenders—Pasta, Marner, Ehlers, Conner etc...a wing who can create and finish...a top 10 wing in this league...

You aren’t getting one of those.

 

[Gurglesons]

You need to learn not to take that example as *literally* what I expect our winger to be.

It was more about an extreme example of a playmaking creative winger versus a winger whose main purpose is to get open and receive passes to finish the play.

It would be like if I said I think Malkin could use a Kevin Stevens-type winger on his line. I don't mean I'm literally advocating for the Pens to drag Stevens out of retirement and put him on Malkin's line.

I’m confused by this assessment though, because we say we want wingers that make our center’s job easier but now we want playmakers that are going to hold onto the puck and expect our centers to find the gaps in coverage?

Like, I disagree that Malkin is completely at fault for what is going on with L2. But some of it is the fact that Malkin is just playing uninspired hockey.

 

[PensandCaps]

You need to learn not to take that example as *literally* what I expect our winger to be.

It was more about an extreme example of a playmaking creative winger versus a winger whose main purpose is to get open and receive passes to finish the play.

It would be like if I said I think Malkin could use a Kevin Stevens-type winger on his line. I don't mean I'm literally advocating for the Pens to drag Stevens out of retirement and put him on Malkin's line.

Zucker has 11 goals, 19 points in 31 games here. (25/45)

He's performing at his career average. Anyone expecting him to be some kind of PPG winger was always gonna be disappointed.

Zucker is what he is, a very good 5v5 goal scorer, but he isn't gonna be able to carry a broken down Malkin.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker was never going to solve any problems or provide much help to Geno or Sid. He's just not that player, and never has been.

What you're seeing is what he is at this point, a middle six winger on the wrong side of his peak that's not going to drive much offense on his own. I'm just happy that he's looked relatively average defensively and is not an active negative there.

He was a bandaid for when Jake was injured, he's a competent winger now, it is what it is. I do think he has enough of an edge and desire to win to turn it up a bit in the playoffs, if we get there.

If that's true, we should just flip him now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Zucker was never going to solve any problems or provide much help to Geno or Sid. He's just not that player, and never has been.

What you're seeing is what he is at this point, a middle six winger on the wrong side of his peak that's not going to drive much offense on his own. I'm just happy that he's looked relatively average defensively and is not an active negative there.

He was a bandaid for when Jake was injured, he's a competent winger now, it is what it is. I do think he has enough of an edge and desire to win to turn it up a bit in the playoffs, if we get there.

Weren't you the person who insisted Zucker sucked before they acquired him last year, only to go completely silent on the issue when Zucker started lighting it up here?

He can pick the corners and finish better than Dupuis. But I haven't seen much offensive creativity from Zucker where he's the one manufacturing chances or making brilliant passes on a semi-consistent basis.

Honestly, Kapanen kind of falls into that category, but for slightly different reasons.

Which was one of the reasons I kept harping on the fact while we have "good" wingers in the top six, I'm not sure we have enough of the type of wingers our mid-30's stars need at this point in their careers. For lack of a better example, they need more Mitch Marner types than Patrik Laine types.

Zucker is like a Kunitz/Dupuis hybrid. Fast skating winger with decent goal scoring talents, good amount of grit and a nose for the net. I don't really see what there is to be mad about with him. On paper, he should be an amazing fit for either Crosby or Malkin, and has already shown to be a great fit with Crosby.

If that's true, we should just flip him now.

It's not true, this guy has just irrationally shit on Zucker since before they even acquired him. Really weird agenda to take.

 

[Gurglesons]

If that's true, we should just flip him now.

He’s a top six winger. It’s the same thing as Perron. Maybe he isn’t a fit, but like.. all you are going to do is get a lesser player with warts if you move him.

I could see Burke and Hextall making a deal for a Meier or Mantha type, but like this idea there is lesser versions of Mitch Marner / Ehlers out there available in trade is just asisine.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He’s a top six winger. It’s the same thing as Perron. Maybe he isn’t a fit, but like.. all you are going to do is get a lesser player with warts if you move him.

Didn't you go off the chain on me a couple weeks ago for making the Perron comparison?

*shakes fist*

PIXIES!

 

[Gurglesons]

Didn't you go off the chain on me a couple weeks ago for making the Perron comparison?

*shakes fist*

PIXIES!

Well, the difference between Perron and Zucker is Zucker was lights out for us with Crosby.

 

[PensandCaps]

A lot of wingers here get unfairly labled as being bad but then go on to light it up when they leave.

The problem is that Malkin and Crosby are hard to play with.

In the case with Zucker though, he is imo a perfect fit for Crosby.

 

[Gurglesons]

A lot of wingers here get unfairly labled as being bad but then go on to light it up when they leave.

The problem is that Malkin and Crosby are hard to play with.

In the case with Zucker though, he is imo a perfect fit for Crosby.

Yeah it is why I hate this coach right now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well, the difference between Perron and Zucker is Zucker was lights out for us with Crosby.

So Zucker is like a bizarre amalgam of both Perron and Hornqvist, at least situationally and as far as their circumstances.

All three are/were good players. But for various reasons they seem destined to not find their full potential here.

There is this tingling at the edges of my brainpan that say maybe a coaching change might help. But who knows. I'm part of the very stupid HFboards website.

 

[PensandCaps]

Didn't you go off the chain on me a couple weeks ago for making the Perron comparison?

*shakes fist*

PIXIES!

Perron probably turns it around though if given more time with Sullivan and with that speed system in 2016/2017.

Biggest headscrather to me is Pearson. Dude can't stop scoring goals in Vancouver.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Perron probably turns it around though if given more time with Sullivan and with that speed system in 2016/2017.

Biggest headscrather to me is Pearson. Dude can't stop scoring goals in Vancouver.

Never understood why Pearson had such a bad rap.

That Pens team was dreadful. Guys aren't going to look good in that situation.