Post-Game Talk: The Russian Bear Wakes Up - Pens Win!

[vikingGoalie]

I feel like Perron's issue in Pittsburgh was that:

1. He was played on RW with Kunitz and Crosby for the most part, while he was tailor made to be a LWer with Crosby and Hornqvist
2. He played under Mike Johnston when the Penguins were at their worst under Mike Johnston
3. This may just be repeating #2, but the Penguins with Daley, HBK (remember Bonino stunk at the start of that season), Rust and whatnot were a completely different team than what started the year.

I think Pearson was just a legitimately bad fit for this team though. He's a vanilla player with a hard shot and didn't have the speed to work with Crosby or Malkin IMO.



You also have to remember that the Penguins were a tire fire before COVID shut down the year, so I think that has to be considered.

the strange thing was Crosby was out, the team looked like giant killers. He came back and everyone stopped playing with structure watching to see what Sid will do. I don't even think it's a Sid is a problem thing. It's more that the other players play differently when he is out of the line up. or something like that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I haven't checked the stats but seems like he's been used on the draw in the D zone a lot more this year, and has won a lot of his key faceoffs. He's been getting better at the critical draws for the last couple seasons. I think he's been more than fine defensively most games, although he tends to swoop and cheat at times when pressing to score.

The town has a Jagr complex, and Malkin is just the easiest Euro target at which to express those sentiments IMO. Malkin's been nothing but gold for this organization 95+% of the time he's been here for 15 years, but some people will always jump to trash him. It's more than sober criticism that any player deserves from time to time, it's weirdly personal.

I'm also not sure why we are talking trades for anybody when we haven't even changed the lines. Whenever Sullivan gets his head out of his ass, he might try Zucker somewhere else.

Weird to bring up xenophobia for saying Malkin sucked yesterday but whatever.

I always viscerally liked Malkin better than Sid as I have a bit of a complex for the "2nd best player" and that Russian heavy metal vid in the nascent days of Youtube so #71 has been my favorite Penguin since he got here.

Sid has been just as bad as Malkin this year and Malkin was far better last year.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Just copy/pasting from the GDT with one addition:

+ZAR and the 3rd line: ZAR was especially good and I liked the 3rd line as a whole. I've kinda soured on Tanev recently but they did a great job tonight.
+Top line: It has been so good since getting put together
+DeSmith in shootouts. Idk what it is, but he seems legitimately good in the shootouts.

=Goaltending outside of the shootout: I thought the best way to describe DeSmith's performance tonight is "he is what he is". He's a fringe NHL goalie playing behind a bad defensive team. I can't reasonably complain about him because he's just not good enough for me to expect much more out of him. Him putting up a ~.895 save% in any given game can't even be considered him being "bad", it's just the best he can reasonably do in this situation.
=Matheson: quiet game from him overall, I'll be mostly satisfied with his play if he continues to play like he did tonight. No problem, plus he made a nice play in OT.

-Malkin: he was horrid and then he got a goal, plus he had a great defensive play in OT. He was so bad before that goal that he's still a minus for today, but the goal saved him from being multiple minuses.
----Marino and POJ: both were bad. POJ got schooled multiple times by Barzal and was heavily responsible for 2 goals against.

Kind of rough on POJ. I agree that he was not good tonight but expecting a rookie 21 year old defensman to play on the top pairing against one of the better forwards in the game is an impossible assignment. When Pettersson gets back soon POJ can move down a spot.

Pens played a great game 5v5 and in fact played bit game against NYI good and dominated the ice for the most part. PK and a few knuckle head plays cost us in both games. The first game being the Letang going behind the net when POJ was already there and the Blueger puck over the glass. I think the Pens lines are trending in the right direction and the defensman are starting to get healthy. Matheson has looked fine since coming back. Nothing awesome but also no bad either playing the 3rd most minutes tonight. Ceci seems to be doing okay for the money. I don't mind him as the 6th defensman.

 

[ChaosAgent]

the strange thing was Crosby was out, the team looked like giant killers. He came back and everyone stopped playing with structure watching to see what Sid will do. I don't even think it's a Sid is a problem thing. It's more that the other players play differently when he is out of the line up. or something like that.

Sid was an active hindrance when he came back last year.

When you see your captain and leader half-assing it defensively, at least some of the team is going to slip into those bad habits.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Weird to bring up xenophobia for saying Malkin sucked yesterday but whatever.

I always viscerally liked Malkin better than Sid as I have a bit of a complex for the "2nd best player" and that Russian heavy metal vid in the nascent days of Youtube so #71 has been my favorite Penguin since he got here.

Sid has been just as bad as Malkin this year and Malkin was far better last year.

I wasn't talking about you at all. Was referencing the over the top criticism the guy gets every time he looks remotely average, the constant references to 'doesn't care', 'enigma', 'disinterested', 'wants to go back to Russia' etc from the lame parts of the fanbase that never got over the Jagr drama. These things are not said about other players who play just as poorly. I never see people like @ronduguayshair around when Malkin is playing well, which is most of the time.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I wasn't talking about you at all. Was referencing the over the top criticism the guy gets every time he looks remotely average, the constant references to 'doesn't care', 'enigma', 'disinterested', 'wants to go back to Russia' etc from the lame parts of the fanbase that never got over the Jagr drama. These things are not said about other players who play just as poorly. I never see people like @ronduguayshair around when Malkin is playing well, which is most of the time.

Got it.

Reflecting back to why I gravitate to Geno so much.

I really think it was that highlight video just when Youtube was becoming a thing. I was in high school. I think pre-Google acquisition. I'd watch it 2ish times/day.

 

[radapex]

So it'd look like Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen does now.

It may well look just as bad. But I'd like to find out, and then we'd know whether this is a Malkin problem or a supporting cast problem. If Crosby struggles and Malkin thrives with the new configuration, we have a lot better idea of where we're at.

I went back over the last two seasons to check some of the advanced stats (eg: CF%, GF%, xGF%, PDO) for various combinations of Guentzel/Rust/Zucker with and without Crosby/Malkin. I had a giant post written up with the numbers, but figured I'd summarize what the numbers show:

• Malkin has been good in every combination, and is producing above what's expected this season.
• Guentzel-Crosby has been very good.
• Rust is good everywhere, but seems to click more with Malkin than Crosby.
• Crosby's numbers without Guentzel are alarmingly bad. Like, detrimental to the team bad.
• Despite the "eye test", the Malkin-Zucker combination is actually performing much better this season than the Crosby-Zucker combination did last season.

I think if you're an advanced stats guy and you're eyeing a lineup change, the logical step, despite my insistence than Crosby-Kapanen will not work, is Guentzel-Crosby-Kapenen and Zucker-Malkin-Rust.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It sure sounds like at least part of what you're sayin' here is that Malkin shouldn't be tar and feathered for single handedly sinking the team.

We don't take kindly to that kinda talk 'round here.

 

[Gurglesons]

I went back over the last two seasons to check some of the advanced stats (eg: CF%, GF%, xGF%, PDO) for various combinations of Guentzel/Rust/Zucker with and without Crosby/Malkin. I had a giant post written up with the numbers, but figured I'd summarize what the numbers show:

• Malkin has been good in every combination, and is producing above what's expected this season.
• Guentzel-Crosby has been very good.
• Rust is good everywhere, but seems to click more with Malkin than Crosby.
• Crosby's numbers without Guentzel are alarmingly bad. Like, detrimental to the team bad.
• Despite the "eye test", the Malkin-Zucker combination is actually performing much better this season than the Crosby-Zucker combination did last season.

I think if you're an advanced stats guy and you're eyeing a lineup change, the logical step, despite my insistence than Crosby-Kapanen will not work, is Guentzel-Crosby-Kapenen and Zucker-Malkin-Rust.

Nah you gotta get a RH PP specialist.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Nah you gotta get a RH PP specialist.

If the PP specialist can either actually play at ES or doesn't have a delusional ego to think he's a top sixer, that would be fine.

If Phil were willing to play on the 4th line and got 4-5 minutes a game at ES it would have been fine if he stayed and ran PP1.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Cool.... Im looking at his capfriendly page...
Coquitlam I'm guessing?

Never heard. You still there?

Yes I am. I wish he'd get more love here. Don't think most people are even aware. It's such a sleepy city.

For the record Jarry is from Surrey, which is like a 20 minute drive away. Got a personal stake in his success. It's pretty sick having a local boy play goal for my team. Would be sad if he doesn't recover soon.

 

[KIRK]

It's a lot easier just to say Malkin sucks and handwave it away though.

It would be nice to see someone other than Zucker on Malkin's LW before making that conclusion, but it's clear that Sullivan's priority regarding the construction of L2 is slotting Zucker where he allegedly belongs.

There's some irony in Sullivan forgetting a simple lesson from last year the moment Sid returned: When Malkin is going, anything is possible. When he isn't, it's an uphill climb for the team.

As I've always said, for all his faults, Michel Therrien always got that. His juggling, even some unorthodox shit, flowed from trying to find that spark.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I went back over the last two seasons to check some of the advanced stats (eg: CF%, GF%, xGF%, PDO) for various combinations of Guentzel/Rust/Zucker with and without Crosby/Malkin. I had a giant post written up with the numbers, but figured I'd summarize what the numbers show:

• Malkin has been good in every combination, and is producing above what's expected this season.
• Guentzel-Crosby has been very good.
• Rust is good everywhere, but seems to click more with Malkin than Crosby.
• Crosby's numbers without Guentzel are alarmingly bad. Like, detrimental to the team bad.
• Despite the "eye test", the Malkin-Zucker combination is actually performing much better this season than the Crosby-Zucker combination did last season.

I think if you're an advanced stats guy and you're eyeing a lineup change, the logical step, despite my insistence than Crosby-Kapanen will not work, is Guentzel-Crosby-Kapenen and Zucker-Malkin-Rust.

If both our scoring lines aren't working I welcome trying all sorts of tweaks, that included.

But given the amount of people calling out Malkin, I'd also try Guentzel-Malkin-Rust before shipping him to the glue factory.

 

[The Old Master]

. On paper, he should be an amazing fit for either Crosby or Malkin, and has already shown to be a great fit with Crosby.

then why isn't he playing with sid?...... oh! i know, it's the coach.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nah you gotta get a RH PP specialist.

If you want to help the PP, you do.

Sadly, our results there will keep bearing that out until it's addressed.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

It would be nice to see someone other than Zucker on Malkin's LW before making that conclusion, but it's clear that Sullivan's priority regarding the construction of L2 is slotting Zucker where he allegedly belongs.

There's some irony in Sullivan forgetting a simple lesson from last year the moment Sid returned: When Malkin is going, anything is possible. When he isn't, it's an uphill climb for the team.

As I've always said, for all his faults, Michel Therrien always got that. His juggling, even some unorthodox shit, flowed from trying to find that spark.

Does anyone remember that game in 2009 against Tampa, believe in January, where Malkin just willed the team to a win? He turned into a beast. When he's like that, the whole team follows. It's been like that since he was a teenager in Russia. When he's on a roll the game flows through him in a way we probably haven't seen since Mario. And it can last 30 or 40 games. Bylsma and Sullivan never understood it and it's been one of the great wastes of their tenures.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does anyone remember that game in 2009 against Tampa, believe in January, where Malkin just willed the team to a win? He turned into a beast. When he's like that, the whole team follows. It's been like that since he was a teenager in Russia. When he's on a roll the game flows through him in a way we probably haven't seen since Mario. And it can last 30 or 40 games. Bylsma and Sullivan never understood it and it's been one of the great wastes of their tenures.

I mean, I think they understand it. They just figure he can produce with whatever and Sid needs it more or some asinine stupid thing.

 

[canadianguy77]

Sid was an active hindrance when he came back last year.

When you see your captain and leader half-assing it defensively, at least some of the team is going to slip into those bad habits.

The team went 18-10 when Sid was out and 7-4 when Geno had his injury. People are trying to make it out like the team only did well when Crosby was injured, but that's simply not the case.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The team went 18-10 when Sid was out and 7-4 when Geno had his injury. People are trying to make it out like the team only did well when Crosby was injured, but that's simply not the case.

Because it's not basketball. Team > individuals

Caps went like 3-0-1 with Ovi, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Samsonov out. Scored 15 goals in 4 games. They were fine and dandy.

 

[canadianguy77]

Because it's not basketball. Team > individuals

Caps went like 3-0-1 with Ovi, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Samsonov out. Scored 15 goals in 4 games. They were fine and dandy.

It's weird reading people's posts that are trying to insinuate that having Sidney Crosby on your roster somehow makes your team worse. It's like I'm living in bizzaro world.

 

[EightyOne]

It's weird reading people's posts that are trying to insinuate that having Sidney Crosby on your roster somehow makes your team worse. It's like I'm living in bizzaro world.

bro we can trade him for like 3 draft picks dawg and like probably a top prospect or something dude

 

[The Old Master]

I mean, I think they understand it. They just figure he can produce with whatever and Sid needs it more or some asinine stupid thing.

close, its more that they think it's because of their brilliant coaching.

 

[PensandCaps]

Weird to bring up xenophobia for saying Malkin sucked yesterday but whatever.

I always viscerally liked Malkin better than Sid as I have a bit of a complex for the "2nd best player" and that Russian heavy metal vid in the nascent days of Youtube so #71 has been my favorite Penguin since he got here.

Sid has been just as bad as Malkin this year and Malkin was far better last year.

No, Sid has been substantially better than Malkin this year.

Malkin was a top 5 player in the league last season though.

 

[chethejet]

Players need to adjust to who they are playing with and I hope that second line will find it's footing shortly. That line is key to the Pens being one of the better teams. The third line has chemistry with Reese back and maybe one of the first moves here is who is not a fit for the Pens. Wish McCann was a better player but I am not in the he has potential camp anymore. He simply hasn't done it as a Pen.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Players need to adjust to who they are playing with and I hope that second line will find it's footing shortly. That line is key to the Pens being one of the better teams. The third line has chemistry with Reese back and maybe one of the first moves here is who is not a fit for the Pens. Wish McCann was a better player but I am not in the he has potential camp anymore. He simply hasn't done it as a Pen.

57 points in 109 games as a Penguin. That's pretty much what I hoped for when we acquired him. That's production warranting a 2.94 mil x 2 contract imo. Given that he doesn't play with the big boys, isn't that enough?

Where were your expectations?

I agree however that he may be necessary to move if they want to improve the goaltending.