Speculation: The Roster Building Thread - To the deadline and beyond!

[tarheelhockey]

All of those numbers and colors and shapes mean Rask is bad?

Basically it means almost any NHL center could fill that role at least as well as he fills it. He gets advantageous opportunities and does little with them.

 

[Bub]

Shutdown centers who face the weakest competition and get the most offensive zone starts. Let's just face it, Staal is our only shutdown center. Heck, he's our only good center (unless Lindy and Aho become one).

View attachment 97643

White dwarf Marcus Kruger is sad.

 

[AD Skinner]

Wasn't strome like a top 3 pick a few years ago? Like compared to an Eric Staal type of prospect? Don't follow Arizona at all but it looks like he hasn't really stuck on their roster for whatever reason. I think I'd be pretty happy with that swap- rask pretty much is what he is at this point, strome may still have room to grow. Not sure why the coyotes would even entertain this deal unless there's some factor im totally missing.

 

[bleedgreen]

It's an interesting offer if the Yotes were seriously considering it. We'd have to look at it strongly for sure. Rask takes flak around here because he looked like a 50 pt guy when he signed the deal and he's been short since. He's a strong guy, holds the puck well and plays pretty good two way hockey while doing well on draws. He showed a side of offensive aggression that he's lost due to confidence issues. The contract is pretty good, it's only bad to us because we wanted 50-60 pt guy on a cheap deal - not a guy we may be paying actual market value to.

The downside is we are a team trying to make the playoffs right now, with a new owner who clearly would like us to make it. While Strome may move us forward in the near future if he actually pans out, it would likely be viewed as a move backwards for this year. Which is why I don't know that Francis does it.

I would do it. I think Rask needs a fresh start somewhere where people give him a blank slate. Strome seems to need to the same and could probably play this year on our team.

 

[Breakdowns]

Strome for Rask? Yes please.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Rask is having a rough year, but I still think he can get back into that 45-50 point range he was in the last couple of years. I think right now, it wouldn't be a trade we would make trying to make the playoffs. But I think getting another player that has a high end center ceiling would be a good gamble for us to take overall. I think it'd be good for the Coyotes to get a player that is fairly productive and locked in at a pretty good contract. Those two as the main part of the deal would be interesting for both teams.

 

[The Faulker 27]

You just have to laugh when you go checkout Rask's contract on CapFriendly, and see this...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

At least Lack's $1.4M retention and Wizniewski's $1M come off the books this year. Thankfully (or maybe hopefully), Semin's buyout numbers won't be an issue with Dundon in charge.

 

[My Special Purpose]

i believe it has less to do with any kind of schism regarding deployment between francis and peters and more to do with it being a carrot for our over-ripening ahl squad to know that we're not healthy scratching any forwards on a nightly basis and the first injury or demotion means that one of you will be next in line. plus, jooris and kruger are both long time professionals and both want to be able to play to secure their future. sitting them in the pressbox for the rest of the season, especially for jooris, would limit their options moving forward. the courteous thing to do for veterans that are no longer required on your team is to expose them to waivers and give them a shot at finding a destination, no matter how unlikely it is that someone would claim them. doing right by the player is an important part of maintaining relationships. when they're out of the plan with your team, you should do everything in your power to try to provide them an exit that is mutually satisfactory. the truth is that jooris and kruger had been pipped and it was in the mutual best interest of all parties to explore all possible, though unrealistic, options for them to continue their careers elsewhere. to me, that's the reason for waivers as opposed to healthy scratching them every game for the remainder of the year as an insurance policy against injuries. plus, as i talked about in another post before the moves, it's a message to the rest of your room that jobs are not safe and if you like the guy sitting next to you then you need to play for him as much as you're playing for you. peters and francis have such a strong working relationship that it strikes me as immensely unlikely that he would attempt to tie his hands, because that's a two way street. when you have a coach that is coaching against the wishes of the gm and a gm that is gming against the wishes of a coach, it's untenable and someone will be relieved. i doubt either party is trying to die on that hill with the immense amount of optimism that is flooding into the organization at present.

This is all true, but it ignores the simple fact that the demotions of Kruger and Jooris *did* necessitate a lineup change. The only question is whether Francis made the moves with the intention of forcing Peters to try Lindholm or Aho at center, or if they agreed on the move in advance. The timing of the moves and the particular players involved (along with the one player who wasn't involved -- DiGiuseppe) lead me to believe the former. Here's why:

First, the timing:

Immediately after publicly asking his GM for help with his roster, the Hurricanes very next lineup contained a player Bill Peters was not previously comfortable with playing the center position, since two players he *was* comfortable with at center were no longer available to him. We have no way of knowing if Peters would have made this change (Lindholm to C) on his own accord or not, but given what he's said in the past, we have no reason to believe he would have. And in hindsight, we can now say that after having used Lindholm at center for 2 1/2 games -- seemingly successfully -- Lindholm is back at wing for tonight's game. Doesn't seem to me like a move he wanted to make. Aho is at center tonight, but again, we don't know if that would have happened without the demotions, only that it's unlikely, since Peters explicitly asked for a center from outside the organization (multiple times).

Then, the players:

Maybe your points above hold a tiny bit of water when it comes to Kruger, but not Jooris. I can think of no reason to send Jooris to Charlotte. He'd been scratched more than he's played this season, so why would we send him down now and leave ourselves without an extra forward? If somebody takes a puck to the face in warmups, we'd have to play with 11 forwards. That's not a risk any NHL team takes intentionally. Putting Jooris on waivers makes sense, to see if anyone could use him and relieve us of his *one-way* contract (i.e. no contractual benefit to sending him down). But the one and only possible reason to remove him from the roster is to prevent him from going into the lineup. We scratched DiGiuseppe all season long, too, but he didn't get sent down. Why choose to keep DiGiuseppe over Jooris, who is clearly a better player and a player we signed as a UFA? Because he's not an option at center.

None of this sounds like a planned lineup change. Kruger and Jooris were sent out leaving the team with only three established centers, at the expense of depth in case of injury. It was -- and remains -- a huge risk (having no extra forwards) for absolutely no reason *if the coach and GM are 100% in agreement*. If this was planned and agreed on, Jooris would have been kept as a 13th forward. But Francis couldn't keep him around, because he knew Peters would just dress him as the fourth-line center and scratch DiGiuseppe while leaving both Aho and Lindholm on the wing. It's simply the only explanation for Jooris being sent down.

I know we want to believe everything is hunky-dory in Canesland right now, but in continuing down your path of hockey folks as real people, a new owner changes everything. Dundon has come in, guns blazing, talking about changing, and fixing, and looking into every part of the business. People over there are excited, but they're also anxious and nervous. Whatever rope Francis had with Karmanos is gone. He's a good GM, and he knows he's doing a good job, but with a new owner, there's just no way he's *as* comfortable as he was with his long term job security. He's got to prove himself all over again, and expectations have changed. Same with Peters. Anybody who's been part of an ownership change at work knows that all you can do at this point is hope the new owner sees your value, similar to the way the previous owner did, but there are absolutely no guarantees. It's a very anxious time.

I'm not trying to say Francis and Peters are at each other's throats, but they are both trying to establish their value to the new owner. Everyone currently employed by the Hurricanes is feeling at least some pressure to distinguish themselves. Maybe Peters and Francis basically agree on everything, but the game has changed and the pressure has been cranked up, and as a result, any tiny disagreement is going to be exposed and magnified.

I'm not even saying this is a huge deal. But I do believe RF wanted his coach to try something and he got tired of waiting, so he forced his hand. I don't think it means they're on the "outs" or anything. I bet this stuff happens all the time in other markets. As a matter of fact, I think it's a very good thing that the "country club" atmosphere that we've been lamenting about for years is coming to an end. That may lead to some public outbursts we're not used to seeing around here. But in the end, it's also going to lead to a level of accountability that we're also not used to seeing around here, and that's the best thing of all.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Shutdown centers who face the weakest competition and get the most offensive zone starts. Let's just face it, Staal is our only shutdown center.

Just to be clear: I meant "shutdown center " in the sense that defense is the one thing Rask is not overtly "bleh" at. Kinda like how a defenseman who can't score is a "defensive defenseman ", or a forward who blows at es but is good on the pp is a "power play specialist" (Mark Letestu).

Rask's chief problem is the Hurricanes lack a 1st line center. One such player would knock Staal to shutdown 2nd line guy and Rask to 3rd line center, where he belongs (and ryan to ahl).

 

[The Faulker 27]

At least Lack's $1.4M retention and Wizniewski's $1M come off the books this year. Thankfully (or maybe hopefully), Semin's buyout numbers won't be an issue with Dundon in charge.

The Wiz gave us such a memorable performance. I guess all good things come to an end.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just to be clear: I meant it in the sense that defense is the one thing Rask is not overtly "bleh" at. Kinda like how a defenseman who can't score is a "defensive defenseman ", or a forward who blows at es but is good on the pp is a "power play specialist" (Mark Letestu).

Yeah, I knew what you meant, and you are right. When unsustainable posted Rask and Ryan were our shutdown centers, I didn't want the guy from AZ to get the wrong idea what that meant.

 

[The Stranger]

Rask's chief problem is the Hurricanes lack a 1st line center. One such player would knock Staal to shutdown 2nd line guy and Rask to 3rd line center, where he belongs (and ryan to ahl).

Na...it's his skating.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Some canes bits from 31 thoughts: 31 Thoughts: No shortage of Rick Nash suitors ahead of deadline - Sportsnet.ca

19. When Carolina coach Bill Peters sounded off about his team, there were two reactions: First, he’s incredibly blunt, so that’s not a surprise. Second, we’re going to get a test of where the organization is going under new ownership.
Well, we got an answer. It is extremely unlikely the Hurricanes would have buried close to $2 million in the minors under previous ownership, assuming both Josh Jooris and Marcus Kruger stay there.
That’s a big change, and the team responded with a four-point weekend over Vancouver and Colorado. This is definitely a new way of doing business for them, which is not a bad thing at all. Now, everyone’s going to be watching to see if this means Peters is going to have greater say over his roster.

20. When I suggested last week a Justin Faulk trade with Detroit, someone pointed out that the Hurricanes’ defenceman entered this season shooting 6.8 per cent for his career.
He’s at 2.6 this season, by far the lowest mark of his NHL life. An analytically inclined organization like Carolina would certainly be aware of that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

From Friedman's 31 thoughts.

NVM...FreshSeabass beat me to it by a minute.

 

[Novacane]

 

[FreshSeabass]

Why? They re really trying to get their money's worth with this dude.

 

[Roboturner913]

Clearly to play 4th line C

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

why? even notopie said this guy ain't an nhler. why not foegele or zykov?

 

[Dishface]

Okay Francis is definitely toying with Peters

 

[Roboturner913]

Brown can be trusted from a defensive standpoint. He may not have a ton of upside but neither does DiGiuseppe (at this point, or at least it would appear that way)

 

[Dishface]

Simply put, the canes stepped on the gas and proved they can do it. Bringing up AHLers would be the wrong reaction. They had to bring up someone, so he chose brown bc he won't steal ice time from those who earned it.

 

[cptjeff]

I'd bet it's just insurance since we're going on the road Thursday. I don't expect the lineup to change next game, but if somebody injures themselves in the warmup, we're set.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe the explanation is that there is ZERO plan to play anyone they call up from the AHL, so he's a "warm body, just in case" while on the road to NJ and it doesn't hurt the Checkers, who play tomorrow night.

Given how well the Canes have been playing, I don't think anyone they called up would see the ice except in an emergency, and even then it would be minimal ice time, so it's kind of a non issue.

 

[MinJaBen]

Lol! Ron Francis reads these boards and is a master troller.