The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!)

[sabresfan129103]

I keep seeing comments here and there that Pegula forced Botterill's hand because of ROR's bonus. That seems very un-Pegulalike. Was that ever reported by anyone, or was it just speculation around these parts?

 

[Chainshot]

I keep seeing comments here and there that Pegula forced Botterill's hand because of ROR's bonus. That seems very un-Pegulalike. Was that ever reported by anyone, or was it just speculation around these parts?

Speculation in a few press sources but no commentary from Botterill or Pegula directly.

 

[Dreakon13]

That audio doesn't really sound like a guy who demanded to be traded (though I'd guess he's probably too smart and maybe too proud to outright admit that either way). He was unhappy with the situation in Buffalo, but everyone in that locker room should've been unhappy. I'd be more concerned if he/they weren't.

However, if it wasn't obvious before it's just becoming clearer and clearer that ROR isn't a leader. He sounds like he was really happy in STL to be on a team with an established core where he could just be another face in the crowd and focus on himself. He's obviously a great asset and it's a failing of the organization having moved on from him (or for not facilitating an environment where he wants to stay)... but acquiring guys like him, Kane and Lehner to be our "leadership group" to stabilize the room and help all the young talent coming in was a huge miscalculation.

Like I used to say, he's the best worker bee in hockey. That's not a bad thing, good teams NEED guys like him, I'm not suggesting that makes it okay to trade him for pennies... but at some point this hive needs a queen (king? lol). ROR alone didn't/doesn't move the needle for us.

I keep seeing comments here and there that Pegula forced Botterill's hand because of ROR's bonus. That seems very un-Pegulalike. Was that ever reported by anyone, or was it just speculation around these parts?

Blues GM recently suggested the bonus deadline played a role in it I believe, and its just common sense given when the trigger was pulled on the trade. And that the owner would be the one with gears grinding over non-cap related salary/bonus concerns.

As to the actual details of why/how it played out, it's never been officially reported.

 

[EichHart]

You don't trade someone under contract simply because he wants to be traded. He played well the previous season and would never be the type of player to just give up. The only answer is Botts is a terrible GM or Pegula demanded him getting traded after this interview comments. Those are the only 2 options that make any sense.

 

[OkimLom]

That audio doesn't really sound like a guy who demanded to be traded (though I'd guess he's probably too smart and maybe too proud to outright admit that either way). He was unhappy with the situation in Buffalo, but everyone in that locker room should've been unhappy. I'd be more concerned if he/they weren't.

However, if it wasn't obvious before it's just becoming clearer and clearer that ROR isn't a leader. He sounds like he was really happy in STL to be on a team with an established core where he could just be another face in the crowd and focus on himself. He's obviously a great asset and it's a failing of the organization having moved on from him (or for not facilitating an environment where he wants to stay)... but acquiring guys like him, Kane and Lehner to be our "leadership group" to stabilize the room and help all the young talent coming in was a huge miscalculation.

At the time we acquired there were reports he felt he was ready for that responsibility (which came with such a large contract), and he may have been ready, but it just didn't work out. It was up to the Sabres to fix the leadership if that was an issue. I still don't think they have done enough to fix it. I feel like all the guys we traded/signed for, which includes ROR, that were placed in leadership roles are those 2nd tier guys. The guys that would take a backseat to the captain. You still need them, but you need an overall collective voice and face in the room that connects everything together. Buffalo hasn't had that type of guy since Drury/Briere. So, what Buffalo needed to do, to help maybe relieve the pressure on ROR for that leadership role, was to get a coach that would take control of the room. That didn't help that Bylsma wanted nothing to do with the guys.

 

[Buffaloed]

I awarded the ROR trade a 7 on the valium scale. Losing real things has the most impact on me. Much of the angst over the ROR trade is based on a hypothetical scenario that the Sabres would have been so much better with him. Maybe it's easier to be outraged over something that exists only in ones mind. The only reality is it was a bad trade because return wasn't enough. That's why I gave it a 7.

Brett Hull Foot in the Crease 10
Briere Drury 10
Losing to Carolina in Conference Finals 9
Lafontaine concussions/trade 8
ROR Trade 7

 

[Tatanka]

Reading comprehension is tricky eh? I clearly said "it wasnt just an issue here"... As in its an issue in other cities too - not just here.

No one individual person 'cratered' the centre depth - Reinhart not being able to do the #2C job & Mitts plateauing hasnt helped, Berglund straight up quitting sure didn't make things any easier either. Add to that a divisive, bordering on incompetence coaching staff and here we sit... There was a plan & it hasnt worked so far - doesnt mean it cant work with Mojo, we'll hVe to wait & see.

This is BS. ROR in buffalo = no crater. ROR traded =Crater. That simple. None of the other things are even relevant. Mitts would be in Roch or a protected 3c role. Sam would moving between 1st and 2nd line rw providing lift where needed. Botts created the problem and failed to address it. Now we have a journeyman middle 6 winger plugging the hole. Tanking at its finest.

 

[Jim Bob]

Reading comprehension is tricky eh? I clearly said "it wasnt just an issue here"... As in its an issue in other cities too - not just here.

No one individual person 'cratered' the centre depth - Reinhart not being able to do the #2C job & Mitts plateauing hasnt helped, Berglund straight up quitting sure didn't make things any easier either. Add to that a divisive, bordering on incompetent coaching staff and here we sit... There was a plan & it hasnt worked so far - doesnt mean it cant work with Mojo, guess we'll have to wait & see.

One individual cratered it: Jason Botterill

Especially if finding a 2C is an issue around the league and you trade an above average one away without an answer in house or coming in ASAP.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is BS. ROR in buffalo = no crater. ROR traded =Crater. That simple. None of the other things are even relevant. Mitts would be in Roch or a protected 3c role. Sam would moving between 1st and 2nd line rw providing lift where needed. Botts created the problem and failed to address it. Now we have a journeyman middle 6 winger plugging the hole. Tanking at its finest.

who is the journeyman?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I guess we're going to pretend all kinds of off-ice issues didn't lead to the O'Reilly trade. I wouldn't post this, except for the 10 or so posts in this thread blaming only Botterill for the lack of a 2C. I wish the trade never happened. I wish the first trade never happened. I wish Buffalo kept the pick and did what most teams would do with #31 and swung for a high-end talent. I'll take Aho for 5 x 8.5, and Compher as a prototypical checking C. Problems = solved.

 

[Snippit]

I guess we're going to pretend all kinds of off-ice issues didn't lead to the O'Reilly trade. I wouldn't post this, except for the 10 or so posts in this thread blaming only Botterill for the lack of a 2C. I wish the trade never happened. I wish the first trade never happened. I wish Buffalo kept the pick and did what most teams would do with #31 and swung for a high-end talent. I'll take Aho for 5 x 8.5, and Compher as a prototypical checking C. Problems = solved.

The first trade was an absolute steal. We got a 1C for a bunch of pieces that haven’t turned into much yet.

I doubt we’d have picked Aho if we had pick 31. We had just drafted 2 budding star centres in Eichel and Reinhart.

 

[joshjull]

This is BS. ROR in buffalo = no crater. ROR traded =Crater. That simple. None of the other things are even relevant. Mitts would be in Roch or a protected 3c role. Sam would moving between 1st and 2nd line rw providing lift where needed. Botts created the problem and failed to address it. Now we have a journeyman middle 6 winger plugging the hole. Tanking at its finest.

You’re right and wrong with this post.

ROR not being here definitely hurt the quality of play for the 2nd line center position. But it didn’t prevent Mitts from getting sheltered or Sam from being used as a RW option on various lines. I’d add Sam not being viewed as an option at center also helped contribute to the hole at the position. If he was it would be a very different situation.

Mitts was sheltered last year. His role/usage is what sheltered him. Sam had the same role the year before at center. It didn’t change for Mitts just because ROR was gone. Also Sam was moved between the 1st and 2nd lines and even the 3rd. It just wasn’t done enough because of the coach, not because ROR wasn’t here.

 

[Dreakon13]

Thank goodness this thread is back. I wasn't sure where to post about the ROR trade. Frankly we just don't hear enough about it these days.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

There was that brief month or two in the spring of 2017 when we had two elite centers and Rasmus Dahlin from the lottery victory. Seeing the thread got me nostalgic for those fleeting moments of optimism in the team. Good times.

 

[Dreakon13]

There was that brief month or two in the spring of 2017 when we had two elite centers and Rasmus Dahlin from the lottery victory. Seeing the thread got me nostalgic for those fleeting moments of optimism in the team. Good times.

We still have one elite center and Rasmus Dahlin... which naturally means it's time to hate everything.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

We still have one elite center and Rasmus Dahlin... which naturally means it's time to hate everything.

Well mostly that he got replaced with that other center who we talk too much about too . Maybe in some time we'll get a real 2c.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Was starting to think I was bad luck. Watched the 1st period, got back home in time to see San Jose tie it. (And the only other games I've been able to see the majority of were the CBJ, Florida, and Anaheim games. ) Solid win. Now let's hope we don't go into a death spiral like after last year's OT win at home vs San Jose.



There's a glaring omission in your list of greatest hits and biggest misses, but I'll give you a pass tonight.

Yeah RoR. Except now the return is actually comparable to what we paid. Because the Blues won the cup does that diminish Tage Thompson is a ppg, high end goal scorer in Rochester ? Or that Ryan Johnson is a top D prospect whose stock has gone up since being drafted? Or our current #3 dman who was directly part of the RoR trade? If any of those pieces part of an eventual cup winner Idc about the Blues

 

[Daz28]

Yeah RoR. Except now the return is actually comparable to what we paid. Because the Blues won the cup does that diminish Tage Thompson is a ppg, high end goal scorer in Rochester ? Or that Ryan Johnson is a top D prospect whose stock has gone up since being drafted? Or our current #3 dman who was directly part of the RoR trade? If any of those pieces part of an eventual cup winner Idc about the Blues

I don't want any guy on my team who thinks he loses his love for the game any more than I do when we're losing. I don't know and don't care if he'll defect from STL, but I'm glad he isn't here. Still not convinced it was a good trade cuz you left a few parts out, especially the one where we don't have Mojo, but instead have another guy who really didn't want to play hockey here(Bergs). What we got currently is a logjam at RD, a possible middle six prospect and a B prospect.


G: Can I bring up Mojo stick-handling into the zone on the PP looking like Dahlin a couple times

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I don't want any guy on my team who thinks he loses his love for the game any more than I do when we're losing. I don't know and don't care if he'll defect from STL, but I'm glad he isn't here. Still not convinced it was a good trade cuz you left a few parts out, especially the one where we don't have Mojo, but instead have another guy who really didn't want to play hockey here(Bergs). What we got currently is a logjam at RD, a possible middle six prospect and a B prospect.


G: Can I bring up Mojo stick-handling into the zone on the PP looking like Dahlin a couple times

At the end of the day the Sabres got 3 good pieces for RoR. Tage Thompson, someone who has looked damn good in Rochester. Potential 20 goal 2nd line winger. Ryan Johnsons stock has gone up exponentially and is touted as the future of the game type dman who is expected to be a top 4 dman. And then we also got Colin Miller for the STL 2nd who oh I don't know has only been a great 2nd pairing dman.

Its funny though the same people who bring up RoR were bashing Botts for stupidly accepting the top 10 condition on the 1st and then when said team wins cup the bashers acted like they knew that would happen. Miller, Thompson and Johnson is more then fair for RoR. Man, Botts and Kruger are the favorites for executive and coach of the year.

Since the TDL Botts has added Montour, Colin Miller, extended Skinner, stole Joker, signed Marjo and hired Kruger. We have the deepest D in the league. Time for people to respect Botts. He is 100x better then Murray and people hate that.

 

[Daz28]

At the end of the day the Sabres got 3 good pieces for RoR. Tage Thompson, someone who has looked damn good in Rochester. Potential 20 goal 2nd line winger. Ryan Johnsons stock has gone up exponentially and is touted as the future of the game type dman who is expected to be a top 4 dman. And then we also got Colin Miller for the STL 2nd who oh I don't know has only been a great 2nd pairing dman.

Its funny though the same people who bring up RoR were bashing Botts for stupidly accepting the top 10 condition on the 1st and then when said team wins cup the bashers acted like they knew that would happen. Miller, Thompson and Johnson is more then fair for RoR. Man, Botts and Kruger are the favorites for executive and coach of the year.

Since the TDL Botts has added Montour, Colin Miller, extended Skinner, stole Joker, signed Marjo and hired Kruger. We have the deepest D in the league. Time for people to respect Botts. He is 100x better then Murray and people hate that.

Sounds like you're going to stay on that side of the line no matter what. It wasn't a good trade.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Sounds like you're going to stay on that side of the line no matter what. It wasn't a good trade.

Well lets see, considering Pegula had Botts on a deadline before he had to pay TEN MILLION DOLLARS, the fact there was only one team even in the running and considering we paid pretty much the same as what we got it was fine. Or is RoR worth more then 2 1st round picks and a top 4 dman who is 27? Johnson and Thompson are equivalent to 1st round picks. Miller is a 27 year old top 4 RHD who scores 30-35 points a season. RoR is a player nearing 30 making 7.5 mil for 3 more years after this one. It is irrelevant what happened last year. All that matters is what those 3 do for us. Because we had RoR for 3 years and did jack shit. These first 10 games were better then ANY 10 game stretch in RoRs 246 games here in Buffalo.

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

So basically the Vanek trade sucks because the resulting pieces are players that are gone (Lehner+Legwand) and a bunch of career minor leaguers (Cornel, Karabecek).

The trade in terms of value is still very poor if you look at it isolated. A Selke+Conn Smythe winning Center for 2 aging Forwards who were no longer needed by St. Louis, a decent but not top prospect, and a few lottery tickets.
Yes, Botts + the scouting team did a good job using those lotto tickets, but you have to look at them separately from the ROR trade itself. Botts didn't trade ROR knowing that Ryan Johnson would be available at 31 and Colin Miller would be caught in the Vegas cap crunch. Would the ROR trade be bad then if Botts drafted for the 2019 version of Josh Ho-Sang and used the 2nd to acquire the equivalent of the Darcy Regier deadline 2nd rounder special?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

holy f*** why are we still talking about this.

 

[Gabrielor]

I'd love to have O'Reilly right about now....


And no, the trade was still all-time bad for us.

 

[dasaybz]

Yeah RoR. Except now the return is actually comparable to what we paid. Because the Blues won the cup does that diminish Tage Thompson is a ppg, high end goal scorer in Rochester ? Or that Ryan Johnson is a top D prospect whose stock has gone up since being drafted? Or our current #3 dman who was directly part of the RoR trade? If any of those pieces part of an eventual cup winner Idc about the Blues

Why did you have to bump this. Just let it die a slow painful death.