The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!) Part 2

[Jame]

Here's how i'll define the negative impact spread across 4 larger facets:

1. Created a Hole at 2C
A Top-6 center, under contract in his prime, is one of the most valuable assets in the NHL and such a driver for on-ice production. Removing a Top-6 center without being able to immediately and adequately fill the roster spot has been such a large contributing factor to the losing the past two seasons.

2. Impact on Remaining Players
Created a giant hole in the lineup that pushed several players out of their ideal roles and playing above their heads. Largest cumulative impact was the disturbed development of Casey Mittelstadt & Tage Thompson. We can also assume that not having a solid second line had negative impact on the trade value of all Buffalo defenseman, which we can assume are being shopped to try and fill that Top-6 Center hole.

3. Misuse of Cap Space
By taking on Sobotka (and lesser extent Berglund), JB was not able to capitalize on cleared cap space from moving O'Reilly. Cap space is an asset and allows for transnational flexibility. He basically made a bad move in terms of value-in vs value-out AND handcuffed himself. I thought not paying ROR was one of the big reasons for moving him? But paying Sobotka and Berglund was a good idea?? wtf.

4. Extended the Losing
As you stated, trading out one of their best players made the team worse in terms of wins and losses. Tag that onto prior years of losing, the trade has likely compounded the losing mentality and fragility in the lockerrom and fanbase (that's gotta be some kind of a thing, right?).

I hear you that the Avs survived trading ROR, but our extenuating circumstances and return were much worse.
And I'm not arguing that this trade, on it's face, can't be overcome. I just can't think of a worse move for any organization than the ROR to St Louis deal. A competent GM, along with his professional scouting staff, should have seen this coming and pushed back on any orders from higher up (if they did get marching orders from Pegulla).

5. Pipeline Asset depreciation
We invested 4 “high end futures” in ROR and got 2 back when we traded him 3 years later. There are going to be holes in the pipeline when you acquire great players, but there shouldn’t be when you trade them.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I shake my head in frustration every time I think about how this team traded away an elite two way center with 5 years of term in exchange for no quality NHL pieces, while at the same time two not good players, Risto and Bogosian, have both requested to be traded and are still here.

 

[Jame]

I shake my head in frustration every time I think about how this team traded away an elite two way center with 3 years of term in exchange for no quality NHL pieces, while at the same time two not good players, Risto and Bogosian, have both requested to be traded and are still here.

5 years of term...

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

5 years of term...

Thank you. Fixed it.

 

[Aladyyn]

Olofsson - O'Reilly - Reinhart
Skinner - Eichel - Pominville

This should have been our top 6 this season. All we had to do was not f*** up...

 

[OkimLom]

Olofsson - O'Reilly - Reinhart
Skinner - Eichel - Pominville

This should have been our top 6 this season. All we had to do was not **** up...

I think Olofsson has better chemistry with Eichel so I'd switch Skinner and VO.

 

[Bendium]

LOL. I think some on this board will still be making up fantasy ROR lineups ten years from now.

 

[sabrebuild]

LOL. I think some on this board will still be making up fantasy ROR lineups ten years from now.

I suspect ten years from now, those who liked the trade at the time will still create fantasy reasons for why they were not appallingly wrong.

 

[kenfury]

LOL. I think some on this board will still be making up fantasy ROR lineups ten years from now.

For a good 5 years my EHM team had Drury and Briere on 5x5 contracts.

 

[OkimLom]

LOL. I think some on this board will still be making up fantasy ROR lineups ten years from now.

95% of the stuff on these boards are fantasy stuff.

 

[Bendium]

Here...let me try one of these. Ahhhmmmm...

You can't look at it as:

ROR ------> Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

You have to have more vision than that and realize it was:

ROR + 2019 1st (7) -----> Cozens, Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

 

[OkimLom]

Here...let me try one of these. Ahhhmmmm...

You can't look at it as:

ROR ------> Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

You have to have more vision than that and realize it was:

ROR + 2019 1st (7) -----> Cozens, Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

Give me the ROR + 2019 1st (7) option over that mess.

 

[sabrebuild]

Here...let me try one of these. Ahhhmmmm...

You can't look at it as:

ROR ------> Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

You have to have more vision than that and realize it was:

ROR + 2019 1st (7) -----> Cozens, Sobotka, Bergland, Thompson, 2019 1st (31), 2021 2nd.

O'Reilly and Zegras and good hockey vs the poo platter and a Cozens

Did you think you had changed the equation in any kind of serious way?

 

[GoldenSeal]

Money is nothing. Term is nothing. A Cup win is priceless. Ask the Blues about that and then ask why Sabers management is so clueless as to how to run a team that keeps having talent walk in, disrespected and then traded off just to wash-rinse-repeat.

I'm not even a Sabers fan and this annoys the hell out of me. Buffalo should have already had a Cup with ROR. Sabers management makes anything impossible.

 

[buffalowing88]

Money is nothing. Term is nothing. A Cup win is priceless. Ask the Blues about that and then ask why Sabers management is so clueless as to how to run a team that keeps having talent walk in, disrespected and then traded off just to wash-rinse-repeat.

I'm not even a Sabers fan and this annoys the hell out of me. Buffalo should have already had a Cup with ROR. Sabers management makes anything impossible.

SabRes*

And I think all of that sounds grandiose and unlikely. More likely, we are in a playoff spot with ROR this year, sure. The guy the Blues got was a different animal than what we had. He was very good for us, but he was something else entirely for St. Louis.

Also, earlier posts about the potential of him and Skinner on a line are foolish. We absolutely would not have Skinner if we kept O'Reilly. I wish we didn't wind up with Skinner, but those two are mutually exclusive.

 

[sabremike]

SabRes*

And I think all of that sounds grandiose and unlikely. More likely, we are in a playoff spot with ROR this year, sure. The guy the Blues got was a different animal than what we had. He was very good for us, but he was something else entirely for St. Louis.

Also, earlier posts about the potential of him and Skinner on a line are foolish. We absolutely would not have Skinner if we kept O'Reilly. I wish we didn't wind up with Skinner, but those two are mutually exclusive.

Why do people keep claiming that if we keep ROR we couldn't get Jeff? For starters Jeff wanted to come here because of proximity to his home. The ROR trade was also virtually cap neutral for that season so the cap situation was the exact same.

And now bringing this up just makes me remember that Botts managed to make the trade even worse by using the first on a guy who looks like he is going to be a complete bust and that right now this organization is completely sad and hopeless.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Why do people keep claiming that if we keep ROR we couldn't get Jeff?

FWIW, Botterill made this claim at least once, I think on WGR. Not saying its right, but that's definitely what the organization has said

 

[Zip15]

FWIW, Botterill made this claim at least once, I think on WGR. Not saying its right, but that's definitely what the organization has said

Did Botts add "because I suffer from a failure of imagination and could not figure a way to have both"?

 

[sabremike]

Did Botts add "because I suffer from a failure of imagination and could not figure a way to have both"?

Skinner was on the last season of his contract.

The ROR deal provided no cap relief that season whatsoever.

Anyone claiming keeping ROR would've left us without the cap space to acquire Jeff is either lying or doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[jputt99]

Outside of the ROR trade with St. Louis , most of the players brought in by Botts were generally received as positive by the fan base or media . I think that many people thought the talent was getting better , at least marginally .
Most of these players under-achieved and it seems to me that many fans turned on the GM . I agree that the GM shoulders the responsibility , and the pressure exerted on him is part of the job . I am not defending Botts or the decision to retain him . But , most of us know that it's the players that can make their GM/coaches look really good or incredibly inept .

 

[slip]

Outside of the ROR trade with St. Louis , most of the players brought in by Botts were generally received as positive by the fan base or media . I think that many people thought the talent was getting better , at least marginally.

Almost nobody thought this around here, and the few that did were banished to the far corners of the earth!

 

[brian_griffin]

Agreed. Posts on this board and other social media sites are proof

I think it's a make or break year for him though, I've kind of soured on him quite a bit recently based on some of his comments made on the zoom call. Hopefully he proves me wrong this off season.

IMO, no long-standing knowledgeable hockey fans had a positive take on the ROR trade...

 

[Club]

IMO, no long-standing knowledgeable hockey fans had a positive take on the ROR trade...

Was referring to the other trades..

Edit. My fault. I thought he was saying besides the ROR trade

 

[joshjull]

IMO, no long-standing knowledgeable hockey fans had a positive take on the ROR trade...

I don't think many, if any, thought we came out ahead on that deal in the short run.

I thought (probably more like hoped) it meant we were finally going with our two tank picks (Jack/Sam) as our top two centers. For me that made the trade a little less onerous. Boy was I wrong on that. The eternal mystery of Sam never truly being tried at center.

I wish the press would ask Botts why they've given up on the idea of him ever playing center. I know he (Botts) said he can carry a line on the wing. But considering the gaping hole and the comical efforts to try others there. Even guys who aren't really NHL centers. Its just baffling to me. What do they have to lose trying Sam at center for half a season?

 

[jc17]

He’s still here...to save the Pegulas money.

If that were the case we wouldnt have gone over the salary cap. I still think the ROR orders came from above, but beyond that I dont think the owners are to blame for all his bad moves