the road to recovery - the bottom 5 Atlantic teams

[The Gr8 Dane]

This premise of this thread is a laughable, Habs are in much better shape than described.

One of the youngest teams in the league, 26 and under pieces:

Galchenyuk (23)
Drouin(22)
Gallagher(25)
Scherbak(22)
Lekhonen(22)
Hudon(22)
Danault(24)
Shaw(26)
Byron (26)
Mete(19)
Juulsen(20)
Jerabek(26)
Lindgren(23)

Some solid pieces that can fetch picks/prospects in :

Pacioretty
Weber
Petry
Price

The issue is the management team, a competent group could easily salvage this core especially with the amount of picks Habs have in the first three rounds in 2018.

I agree that Habs need to embrace the rebuild/retweak but if you have Detroit in there but not Montreal it screams of bias.

I would agree with you if different management came in place and price or weber or both were moved. Until then it's quite gloomy

 

[nbwingsfan]

Injured? He suffered from some fatigue just a lame excuse to justify how mediocre the DD He's healthy now and is maintaining similar stats.
Remind me how Weber getting one of his first long-term injury in his career equal to a downswing? Unless you are a saying 20 goals and 40-45+ points is a downswing?

Maintaining similar stats to What? He's a sub 910sv% this season...

You really think Weber is as good of a player as he was 3 years ago? Has literally nothing to do with his injury.

 

[klmdg]

I was talking about Pacioretty and Weber in terms of prospect and picks. If you follow the discussion it's clear as day. Cherry pick one post all you want but that doesn't change that Pacioretty and Weber hold value in this league.

Much like your GM, you have completely lost the plot.

Your words, not mine:

Some solid pieces that can fetch picks/prospects in:

Pacioretty
Weber
Petry
Price

Now I guess I’m cherry picking two of your posts.

Have fun moving the goal posts for the rest of the day.

 

[Drew4u]

How the f*** is Montreal in a worse poisition than Detroit. Let's compare their cores

Larkin, Mantha, A.A, Nyquist,Tatar. Dekeyser. Howard

Drouin, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Lehkonen. Weber, Price.

Both teams are doomed but let's not act like Detroit has a better future.

 

[joe dirte]

Weber is easily tradeable and so is Pacioretty , you can devalue assets all you want but that doesn't imply the Habs are in some kind of dire situation. Is Price being overpaid by 1.5M handicapping this team?

At the bare minimum we are looking at a near blue chip prospect and a 1st for each.

no. there is Monday you'd getvthat for weber. no chance. it would be a challenge together of him at this point.

 

[joe dirte]

Once again a statement that has no bearing of fact and more of made up fiction...

Everybody in Montreal is underachieving this year and just a reminder (over the last 5 years):

In regards to Weber , last I checked a top 2D is still worth 6-8M on a case by case basis , so even if Habs have to retain a little (which they easily can with the cap space) he's easily worth a very good prospect and a 1st.

You can't dismiss Habs prospect/young players that are doing well (or have real potential) and at the same time say their elite vets have no value without providing any kind of proof at all.

a top 2 d? as in top pairing?

weber has the 4th highest cap hit for dmen in the league.

only 15 dmen in the league have a cap hit more than 6mil. 18 at 6mil or higher.

it's not 1/2 dman salary, 6mil is high end number 1 salary.

 

[CauZuki]

a top 2 d? as in top pairing?

weber has the 4th highest cap hit for dmen in the league.

only 15 dmen in the league have a cap hit more than 6mil. 18 at 6mil or higher.

it's not 1/2 dman salary, 6mil is high end number 1 salary.

How many of these D-men are not on ELC or bridge deals? He is absolutely still a top pairing D-man ,a stud defensively and offensively. His age doesn't factor just yet and will most likely only be an issue towards the last couple of years of his contract. Considering he's been very healthy for the length of his career and hasn't regressed in any way since joining Montreal. When you add the leadership he brings to the locker room I can assure you that a team at the cusp of contention will easily pay a good prospect and 1st for him.

We can't forget that we are talking about a player that is 2nd for goals scored among d-man over the last 5 seasons. We are also talking about a player who is very strong in his own end , which is not a common occurence for point producing D. He brings a mix of goal scoring , proper defense and leadership , that holds value no matter how you look at it. If he had a lower cap hit , I wouldn't be asking for just a top prospect and 1st. It would be a package of multipe strong pieces , like we see when players of his calibre get traded.

Par for the course on the main board, devalue assets all you want but the facts just plainly disagree with you. Care to find a comparable star D that was traded for less?

We apparently live in a world where Yandle gets you a 1st ,2nd and a good prospect but Shea Weber is untradeable because he makes 1 million and change more.

 

[BlueBaron]

Cleverly hidden “Leafs are a top 6 team in the league” thread

ROFL. So you're telling us you think you're clever.

I think this is a thread about rebuilding. It's not surprising that a team that had a quick turnaround would be brought up into the discussion as an example. But then again, I'm not paranoid...

 

[1specter]

Care to provide some logical behind Montreal vs Detroit ,genuinely curious.

They don't have to deal with the Weber and Price contracts. They also have some decent young pieces that at least fill out their depth, and their prospect pool is okay. With a couple of high picks and selling off assets they have more flexibility to change the team around. Detroit is also a better managed team and doesn't have as many office politics as the Habs.

 

[CauZuki]

They don't have to deal with the Weber and Price contracts. They also have some decent young pieces that at least fill out their depth, and their prospect pool is okay. With a couple of high picks and selling off assets they have more flexibility to change the team around. Detroit is also a better managed team and doesn't have as many office politics as the Habs.

What is there to deal with Weber , his cap hit is in line with his production , age and other factors?
Habs have younger pieces that have produced more at the NHL level. Especially when looking at Galchenyuk/Drouin vs Mantha/Larkin/Athanasiou. I'm not going to quibble over other prospects as it's an opinion and perspective game where commmon ground isn't really possible (until said prospects come into there own or not).

Habs have higher value veterans in Weber/Pacioretty that they can leverage for better pieces compared to what Detroit currently has. That being said, I admire that your team still has decent prospects and aren't in such bad shape considering you've made the playoffs for so long. It's not easy being competitive longterm and I respect Detroits management , an area where Montreal has to revamp completly.

Price is still a star goalie (and if you look at star goalies many produce well into their mid 30s) , Weber hasn't slowed down and produced quite well until he got injured (where he's been very healthy otherwise). Pacioretty still has 1 year left on his deal at 4.7M , is top 3 for goals scored since the lockout and still top 5 over the last few years. I think I'm setting the bar very low when I say Pacioretty or Weber would return a very good prospect (perhaps not an elite/blue chip type) and 1st.

The point being with strong management , many of the Habs veterans that don't fit the more longterm plan can be used to acquire assets in a way I don't believe Detroit can. It's an uphill battle for sure either way but as I mentioned with a revamp in management and drafting/development the Habs could be competitive again by 2019-2020. Especially considering Habs have 6 picks in the top 100 in 2018 and potentially more if Pacioretty/Byron/Plekanec/Benn are traded for picks.

If current management sticks around , then I am 100% on board with saying Habs are screwed for the next 5 years+. The team has some good young pieces but is missing elite pieces you build around at two key positions (C + D) .

 

[Pavels Dog]

How the **** is Montreal in a worse poisition than Detroit. Let's compare their cores

Larkin, Mantha, A.A, Nyquist,Tatar. Dekeyser. Howard

Drouin, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Lehkonen. Weber, Price.

Both teams are doomed but let's not act like Detroit has a better future.

Larkin is the best U25 piece of either team. Mantha/AA/Nyquist/Tatar/Bertuzzi/Svechnikov/Rasmussen is at least as good U30 forward depth as Montreal.
Wings current D sucks but they’ve picked up a ton of young D the last few years and Cholowski, Hronek, Hicketts, Saarijarvi, Holway, Sambrook, Lindstrom etc are a promising D pipeline. Habs advantage there right now but pipeline favors Detroit.
Between Howard/Mrazek/Larsson/Petruzzeli they should be able to figure out their goaltending without a 10M contract.

Wings have some ugly veteran deals but nothing that truly handcuffs them for very long or that should be impossible to get rid of.

Management should be an edge for Wings as well.

Drafting potential edge as well (potentially a big deal now that Detroit gets higher picks, something Montreal have had way more of).

’18 draft is key for both teams but short of landing Dahlin I doubt Montreal will come out of it looking better than Detroit anyway.

 

[MoreOrr]

Time to change the title to the "bottom 4", as I have a strong feeling that the Panthers are Playoff bound.

 

[Hockeyholic]

This premise of this thread is a laughable, Habs are in much better shape than described.

One of the youngest teams in the league, 26 and under pieces:

Galchenyuk (23)
Drouin(22)
Gallagher(25)
Scherbak(22)
Lekhonen(22)
Hudon(22)
Danault(24)
Shaw(26)
Byron (26)
Mete(19)
Juulsen(20)
Jerabek(26)
Lindgren(23)

Some solid pieces that can fetch picks/prospects in :

Pacioretty
Weber
Petry
Price

The issue is the management team, a competent group could easily salvage this core especially with the amount of picks Habs have in the first three rounds in 2018.

I agree that Habs need to embrace the rebuild/retweak but if you have Detroit in there but not Montreal it screams of bias.

Quality is more important than quantity.

 

[Asheville]

Time to change the title to the "bottom 4", as I have a strong feeling that the Panthers are Playoff bound.

Quality bump

 

[General Disarray]

Yeah because before winning the lottery and drafting Marner/Nylander the Leafs were in much better shape than the present Habs, right?

If anything the Leafs demonstrated what a few strong drafts and a bit of luck can do...
Why do Leafs fans have to consistently talk down on other teams players to make themselves feel better?

Holy inferiority complex Batman!

Leafs had some luck but they hired competent people. They have a solod owner and who was committed to rebuilding. Habs have can get lucky too but they need to fix their management/scouting/etc. Until that happens, they won't be going anywhere.

 

[CauZuki]

Leafs had some luck but they hired competent people. They have a solod owner and who was committed to rebuilding. Habs have can get lucky too but they need to fix their management/scouting/etc. Until that happens, they won't be going anywhere.

That is exactly my opinion and what Inhave been stating for a while now. I brought up how a change in management could really turn this team around in as little as 2-3 years. Habs youngsters are starting to produce and a couple elite pieces could really help. There is a lot that needs to go right to turn things around but the first step is a complete revamp of management and culture. I just don't see how Detroit is in better shape moving forward as per OP.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

There is no recovery under Eugene Melnyk. Our highest hope is to become a bubble team again.