I think his skating ain't quite up to snuff but that's from reading on here not first hand knowledge
Prospect Info: The Prospect Thread (Part XXVIII)
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I think his skating ain't quite up to snuff but that's from reading on here not first hand knowledge
Judging from these boards and those who've seem them in person, Olson and Brisebois have made nice strides since their draft years last season.....Olson and the PG Cougars are playing the Giants for three games in the next week or so....will be interested in any live reports on Olson from HF posters.
Barely 18 when drafted. This is something that can be adjusted. Hopefully he has some good coaching.
instead of wasting my time trying to do this again im just gonna c/p the post you clearly ignored
What if benning told you he doesnt care.
You treat mckenzie stewart signing as like an inditement of man's entire character.
You use a stupid example like a mechanic with an oil change fixing an engine.
Whats a more apt example is.
A new business hires a manager from a similar business that couldnt promote him to the role he was capable of.
This new manager is happy at his new power and makes some decisons that dont really have any serious outcome like hiring his cousins son to be a receptionist.
This is the world we live in.
#GCGboeserdemkostewart
You treat mckenzie stewart signing as like an inditement of man's entire character.
You use a stupid example like a mechanic with an oil change fixing an engine.
Whats a more apt example is.
A new business hires a manager from a similar business that couldnt promote him to the role he was capable of.
This new manager is happy at his new power and makes some decisons that dont really have any serious outcome like hiring his cousins son to be a receptionist.
This is the world we live in.
#GCGboeserdemkostewart
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Benning making stupid misstakes is a problem, using contract spots ro the like of Stewart is useless, much like Gillis giving a contract to Cederholm far to early.
It was a bad move from the start we all knew it, everyone but Benning apparently.
Southern_Canuck
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2004
- 2,444
- 855
Tue Dec 29
NCAA
McGill 1 Yale 4
Beattie did not play
Clarkson 1 Penn State 5
Williamson did not play
Boston College 1 Providence 2
Demko 27 saves on 29 shots
WJC
Switzerland 2 Canada 3 (SO)
Virtanen 0 points, +2
QMJHL
Saint John 6 Acadie-Bathurst 5 (SO)
Brisebois 0 points, even
OHL
Erie 2 Guelph 1 (OT)
Pettit 0 points, -1
S_C
NCAA
McGill 1 Yale 4
Beattie did not play
Clarkson 1 Penn State 5
Williamson did not play
Boston College 1 Providence 2
Demko 27 saves on 29 shots
WJC
Switzerland 2 Canada 3 (SO)
Virtanen 0 points, +2
QMJHL
Saint John 6 Acadie-Bathurst 5 (SO)
Brisebois 0 points, even
OHL
Erie 2 Guelph 1 (OT)
Pettit 0 points, -1
S_C
BuzzBuzz
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2011
- 609
- 25
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Ok didn't know that, seems he was signed the 20th may 2014 the day before the Benning signing, Guess that miss was made by Gilman or Linden then
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 12,858
- 3
Tobi Wan Kenobi
Registered User
Detroit:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130683
Tampa Bay:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=92428
Dallas:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=160312
NY Rangers:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=143756
There's others but these 4 are just a 5 minute peruse through hockeydb of CHL defensemen who put up abysmal numbers in their draft or draft+1 years. Granted Stewart is on the low end even of these players but it's a fallacy that "quality" teams never throw late picks on low upside behemoth defensemen. They do and it doesn't "predict" anything.
There's that. At least those players were/are able to complete their junior careers at varying levels of success.
And just that you don't forget, to add to this Stewart debacle, how many of those players were rushed to a pro contract after disastrous junior seasons? I don't see any. Two were signed eventually, and only one of those was a legitimately bad signing (Graves wasn't a bad signing).
There's so many levels of incompetence here. Very similar to the Sbisa contract in that regard.
How often do you see a guy who is apparently not good enough for junior to be signed to a pro contract.
Detroit, Dallas and NY picked first time eligible players who all showed more upside at that point. Tampa were not a good team at the time of that draft. (Not to mention that Dallas is not a team that drafts well.) Nedomlel put up more points in his draft + 1 season than Stewart did in his whole WHL career. Graves had an excellent draft + 2 year and now looking good in the AHL.
But the real issue here is that you seem to think that they're low upside based on nothing more than their numbers. What you're missing is that unlike Stewart these were all top pairing defensemen at the junior level.
We picked a guy in his draft + 1 season who was showing 0 upside in order to develop him into a depth defenseman at the NHL level. That's the real dumb part of that move — thinking that you can draft a 3rd pairing WHL guy and develop him to be the same in the NHL.
sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
- 15,895
- 14,766
I still contend Stew was an ok pick, but a bad signing. I would much rather reward a Roussel or Burrows or Zalewski type with a contract than a potential bottom pair defenseman that made zero progression after his draft year added to the fact that he was a marginal player to begin with.
Plenty of cases of defenseman being drafted at 18/19 without much of a platform or resume at that point. The key for the Methot's and Pardy's of the world is they progressed nicely and weren't going to be tried as some ridiculous John Scott, McGratton winger project.
Plenty of cases of defenseman being drafted at 18/19 without much of a platform or resume at that point. The key for the Methot's and Pardy's of the world is they progressed nicely and weren't going to be tried as some ridiculous John Scott, McGratton winger project.
It'll be fascinating to compare the careers of Mackenze Stewart and Joe Hickitts going forward....should be mandatory viewing for the 'Nucks scouting staff.
I think they are all dumb moves, top pairing in junior or not. Actually all the worse if they play top minutes and can't surpass 20 points in an entire season. A minimum of puckhandling and passing skill is needed to transition to the NHL eventually and guys who can't crack 20 points are bad bets all around.
My point isn't and has never been that Stewart is a good pick. He's a bad pick, as are those others. My point is he doesn't "represent" a fatal error in thinking. Teams take flyers on guys *like* Stewart from time to time. I don't know why but they do. But you can't discern a pattern from a single data point. Stewart doesn't indicate Benning is a horrible drafter any more than Forsling or Boeser alone indicate that he is a very good drafter. You need to look at an entire body of work to determine competence or incompetence, not myopically single out one bad pick and make it a martyr to some agenda.
sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
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Good post.
You also have to keep in mind the later the rounds the more GM's and assistants are willing to put faith in scouts and let them play a hunch on a guy.
People really don't take chances on guys like Stewart. He is a standard deviation away from the typical low probability player that teams take chances on. This is especially true in recent years, where it's become very clear that you need a certain base skill which is fairly high even to become a 4th liner in today's nhl.
Stewart had no chance and I know it's difficult to differentiate between a guy whose probability is 2% and a guy whose probability is near zero, but it does represent a stunning insight how they think drafting works if they think k they can turn a bottom pairing whl defender into an nhl player. Not all low probability picks are equal. Even Stewart despite being at near zero still is orders of magnitude higher than I have, for example.
Would you be okay with the team taking a flier on me, considering I'm 28 and haven't played hockey in a decade? Of course hot. You have to set the bar somewhere and pretty much everyone but Benning has it well above Stewart.
You take chances on guys like subban, who clearly have talent but are longshots due to size or something like that. In fairness, maybe he gets that now. Rookie mistake and all that. I agree with reviewing the entire body of work but it's premature to conclude much about Bennings drafting at this point.
And again, if he had drafted Stewart and then let it go, I would have gotten over it. Wasted pick but whatever. But he actually rushed to sign him to a contract! -that's the scary part and the part that makes you think he doesn't understand how to develop nhl players.
We will see.
As I've said before, my hunch is that Benning, having been hired very shortly before the draft, almost certainly had little input on the last few picks in the draft. I suspect Delorme wanted pettit and Stewart, and Benning, fresh on the job probably decided to defer to the guy that's been with the organization for a century. That's what I suspect and if so, I wouldn't blame Benning one bit if that was it.
But then he fires Crawford, who had had an excellent draft the only year he was in charge of it, and keeps Delorme around. And then he decides to offer Mac stew a contract. So I'm less and less willing to absolve Benning of the situation as time moves from the draft..
I get what you're saying but it is important to keep these marginal differences in perspective. He may be a 0.5% chance vs a 2% chance for a 'typical' pick but the difference is still negligible even if it also 1/4 the chance of success. At such small probabilities you can say things like "orders of magnitude" and be mathematically correct but in terms of the real world implications it simply doesn't make a real difference.
When it is drafting Patrick White in the 1st round or a draft +2years overager (not CHL overager) like Mallet in the second then I would get on board with the notion that these mistakes are tangibly negative and worthy of the level of scrutiny and anguish that has been expressed over the Stewart pick.
Or to borrow a Ververticus analogy, mistakes in the top 40 picks are like a surgeon bludgeoning his or her patient to death in surgery, thus showing gross incompetence. Making a mistake in the 7th round is like the surgeon parking in the handicap zone before getting to work. Stupid but hardly consequential in the big picture.
I feel like we're one of the only boards that are this crazily obsessed with contract spots
I'm not saying that it's not a bad signing
But I'll only be really upset when his roster spot literally costs us a player or prospect that I really want
Just find it a little funny how a lot of people here will completely over-analyze a 7th round pick
I'm not trying to make excuses for Benning or anything
But it's a bit crazy how people make a huge deal out of this
I'm not saying that it's not a bad signing
But I'll only be really upset when his roster spot literally costs us a player or prospect that I really want
Just find it a little funny how a lot of people here will completely over-analyze a 7th round pick
I'm not trying to make excuses for Benning or anything
But it's a bit crazy how people make a huge deal out of this
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