The Pittsburgher Thread - Steelers/Football talk

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Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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For your first sentence: young people today haven't seen Gretzky or Mario play in his prime, yet no one would ever say that Crosby is better than 99 or 66. Of course they care more about Sid because they've seen him play and watched his highlights. But Sid's status as an all time great will never come close to Gretzky's. Not now, not in 50 years.

As for your 2nd sentence, I don't understand what it has to do with anything. In the grand scheme of thing, football did not lose a single fan when Manning retired or when Brady will retire. But that has no bearing on their GOAT status.
On the flip side hockey is a little different, the minute Sid and Geno leave the organization the attendance and TV viewership will decrease by a significant amount. The sell out streak will end that same season. Every fanbase has a lot of fair weather fans and they show up for 2 reasons. Star players and team success.

That’s because you aren’t following the discussion.

Another poster said the NFL will never be the same without Brady and I disagreed.

Once he retires, he will be recognized as the best ever, but very few fans will care enough to stop enjoying the game.

They will be focused on their own teams... probably glad he’s gone... and other stars like Mahomes and likely Lawrence will become the faces of the league.

In 10+ years, a new generation of fans won’t care about Brady and his legacy anymore than young fans today care about Montana, Elway and Aikman.

They will likely recognize how great Brady was, but very few will not enjoy the NFL because he retired ten years ago.
 
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KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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RIP Marty Schottenheimer:



That man was a hell of a coach.

You watch video of him from when he was in Cleveland, and you can see just how much his mentoring impacted Bill Cowher's mentor as a player and coach.

Saw it noted earlier what his pre-Cowher to Pittsburgh KC staff looked like:

Bill Cowher - DC
Tony Dungy - DB
Bruce Arians - RB
Herm Edwards - Advance Scout
 
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ziggyjoe212

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Oct 2, 2017
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That’s because you aren’t following the discussion.

Another poster said the NFL will never be the same without Brady and I disagreed.

Once he retires, he will be recognized as the best ever, but very few fans will care enough to stop enjoying the game.

They will be focused on their own teams... probably glad he’s gone... and other stars like Mahomes and likely Lawrence will become the faces of the league.

In 10+ years, a new generation of fans won’t care about Brady and his legacy anymore than young fans today care about Montana, Elway and Aikman.

They will likely recognize how great Brady was, but very few will not enjoy the NFL because he retired ten years ago.
The NFL def won't be the same without Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. But there will be a new era of stars.

No the NFL won't lose fans when Brady is gone. The attention will just shift to Mahomes and whoever else is elite at the time.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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The NFL def won't be the same without Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady. But there will be a new era of stars.

No the NFL won't lose fans when Brady is gone. The attention will just shift to Mahomes and whoever else is elite at the time.

I’ve barely even noticed Manning is gone, and frankly haven’t cared that much. Roth is the only one I will miss (at least the good version of him), because it effects my favorite team.

I remember people fretting about Young, Elway and Marino all retiring within a two year span and it didn’t ultimately matter.

Manning and Brady were just about to get started, and a young stud in Pgh in five years was about to become the youngest QB to win a SB.

Legends accomplishments live on, but almost all fans don’t stop being passionate about the league because one retires.
 

TimmyD

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Nov 11, 2013
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Greensburg, PA
RIP Marty Schottenheimer:



That man was a hell of a coach.

You watch video of him from when he was in Cleveland, and you can see just how much his mentoring impacted Bill Cowher's mentor as a player and coach.

Saw it noted earlier what his pre-Cowher to Pittsburgh KC staff looked like:

Bill Cowher - DC
Tony Dungy - DB
Bruce Arians - RB
Herm Edwards - Advance Scout


I will still never understand why the Chargers fired him after going 14-2. They have yet to find a good replacement for him ever since they threw him under the bus in 2006.
 
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Khelandros

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I will still never understand why the Chargers fired him after going 14-2. They have yet to find a good replacement for him ever since they threw him under the bus in 2006.
About face: Chargers fire head coach Schottenheimer

"Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer was fired
Monday night in a shocking move by team president Dean Spanos, who
cited a "dysfunctional situation" between the coach and general
manager A.J. Smith."
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Fascinating to read about some of the coaching adjustments the Bucs made in the Superbowl.

Offensively, the big one was with play action. They went from 20% during the season to 43% during the game, but the other interesting twist was that during the season they almost exclusively used play action to take deep shots, while in the big game, they ran routes designed to clear out short/intermediate primary looks.

The other fascinating one was that Fournette TD run in the 3rd quarter. Arians has a bread and butter run for years. It's kind of an option run. Straight ahead blocking with front seven accounted for. Primary options are one of two directions inside, or the RB has a third option to bounce outside where he has to make a CB miss. He's been running that for years. First time ever, he and Leftwich throw in a twist . . . a pulling guard and they leave the weakside linebacker unblocked. Fournette, by design, starts inside, which freezes the weakside linebacker (who expects a block attempt). Then, he bounces outside, where the true design is shown (a fake inside run) as the pulling guard obliterates the CB and the weak side linebacker is too slow to react to a play twist he's never seen and not been coached to anticipate.

Meanwhile, defensively . . . holy hell, Todd Bowles. Part of this is due to the Chiefs crap line, but his game plan was to force Mahomes left and to take away the deep stuff (conceding the scrambles for gains much like the Giants years ago conceded the run when they beat the unbeatable Bills in the Superbowl). The way they most frequently lined up reminded me of what the Steelers did to the Colts during the 2005 playoffs. Three on the line. Two in the ILB position. Four DB on the line. Two deep safeties to make sure they don't get beat over the top like they'd been earlier in the year. The team that loved to blitz in turn rarely blitzed, and what they did instead to confuse the Colts OL was you couldn't predict what they were going to do out of that basic set. 4 people were coming, yes, but there was so often 1 who came free (or very quickly) because they were getting a look they hadn't seen on film (and then an adjustment was hard because of all the different things being run from that look).

But, the most fascinating thing with what Bowles did is that each player was like a chess piece, and they attacked in combination, with each piece serving a specific role. There were plays, for example, where JPP was supposed to crash inside (to open things up for a stunting LB or once in a blue moon a blitzing corner), and he never rushed hard, because his role became (a) opening things up for the true rushing attacker and (b) to serve as a spy on Mahomes.

Just really fascinating to read about the coaching adjustments from the Bucs on both sides of the ball.

And, yes, I'll leave the comparisons to others. :D
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I will still never understand why the Chargers fired him after going 14-2. They have yet to find a good replacement for him ever since they threw him under the bus in 2006.

Like Cleveland just over 30 years ago, they thought the grass was greener on the other side.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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The players hated the move. LT never got over it to be honest. He believes that management stole a ring from him by firing Marty...I fully believe he is correct

Not just with the Chargers. His players would've run through walls for him, and the man was able to get buy in from the most troublesome of characters (a point referenced in this from Ozzie Newsome):

Ety99BXXIAYuCcG
 

TimmyD

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Nov 11, 2013
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Greensburg, PA
Not just with the Chargers. His players would've run through walls for him, and the man was able to get buy in from the most troublesome of characters (a point referenced in this from Ozzie Newsome):

Ety99BXXIAYuCcG

Yeah he was able to connect with every player he coached. It was incredibly impressive
 
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Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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Fascinating to read about some of the coaching adjustments the Bucs made in the Superbowl.

Offensively, the big one was with play action. They went from 20% during the season to 43% during the game, but the other interesting twist was that during the season they almost exclusively used play action to take deep shots, while in the big game, they ran routes designed to clear out short/intermediate primary looks.

The other fascinating one was that Fournette TD run in the 3rd quarter. Arians has a bread and butter run for years. It's kind of an option run. Straight ahead blocking with front seven accounted for. Primary options are one of two directions inside, or the RB has a third option to bounce outside where he has to make a CB miss. He's been running that for years. First time ever, he and Leftwich throw in a twist . . . a pulling guard and they leave the weakside linebacker unblocked. Fournette, by design, starts inside, which freezes the weakside linebacker (who expects a block attempt). Then, he bounces outside, where the true design is shown (a fake inside run) as the pulling guard obliterates the CB and the weak side linebacker is too slow to react to a play twist he's never seen and not been coached to anticipate.

Meanwhile, defensively . . . holy hell, Todd Bowles. Part of this is due to the Chiefs crap line, but his game plan was to force Mahomes left and to take away the deep stuff (conceding the scrambles for gains much like the Giants years ago conceded the run when they beat the unbeatable Bills in the Superbowl). The way they most frequently lined up reminded me of what the Steelers did to the Colts during the 2005 playoffs. Three on the line. Two in the ILB position. Four DB on the line. Two deep safeties to make sure they don't get beat over the top like they'd been earlier in the year. The team that loved to blitz in turn rarely blitzed, and what they did instead to confuse the Colts OL was you couldn't predict what they were going to do out of that basic set. 4 people were coming, yes, but there was so often 1 who came free (or very quickly) because they were getting a look they hadn't seen on film (and then an adjustment was hard because of all the different things being run from that look).

But, the most fascinating thing with what Bowles did is that each player was like a chess piece, and they attacked in combination, with each piece serving a specific role. There were plays, for example, where JPP was supposed to crash inside (to open things up for a stunting LB or once in a blue moon a blitzing corner), and he never rushed hard, because his role became (a) opening things up for the true rushing attacker and (b) to serve as a spy on Mahomes.

Just really fascinating to read about the coaching adjustments from the Bucs on both sides of the ball.

And, yes, I'll leave the comparisons to others. :D

coaching adjustments to make you less predictable...what’s that, asks a Steelers fan?
 
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KIRK

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Interesting stat. Pretty small sample size though, obviously.


So . . . Conner's salary was in line, the fact that he sucked notwithstanding? :laugh:

Okay, joke over, it actually is a really fascinating stat that goes to the school of thought that says you don't pay big money for RB's in a passing league.
 

Mischa

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Feb 11, 2012
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So . . . Conner's salary was in line, the fact that he sucked notwithstanding? :laugh:

Okay, joke over, it actually is a really fascinating stat that goes to the school of thought that says you don't pay big money for RB's in a passing league.
the funniest part imo is the highest paid leading rusher is a wide receiver
 
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Al Smith

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Apr 28, 2012
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So . . . Conner's salary was in line, the fact that he sucked notwithstanding? :laugh:

Okay, joke over, it actually is a really fascinating stat that goes to the school of thought that says you don't pay big money for RB's in a passing league.

You've got to go back to 2000 and Jamal Lewis to see a "franchise"-type RB leading the winning team in rushing yardage. Before 2000 and you start to regularly see big names leading the winning team in rushing. FWIW.

Leading Rushers In Each Super Bowl
 
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Shaftception

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Apr 6, 2011
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Fascinating to read about some of the coaching adjustments the Bucs made in the Superbowl.

Offensively, the big one was with play action. They went from 20% during the season to 43% during the game, but the other interesting twist was that during the season they almost exclusively used play action to take deep shots, while in the big game, they ran routes designed to clear out short/intermediate primary looks.

Just want to highlight this part here because it was so noticeable watching the game.

I pointed out one such play in the game thread because it was such a great playcall. Was a simple playaction into a pass to Fournette out of the backfield, but the replay afterwards was just brilliant. The camera perspective was from behind the quarterback, and as soon as the fake handoff occured, you saw both inside linebackers immediately panic and turn towards their endzone looking to pick up routes heading deep, which left absolutely nobody to cover Fournette coming out of the backfield leading to an easy 15 yard gain.

The reaction of the linebackers was probably due to studying film on TB's tendencies off playaction if that note about it largely being used to setup the deep ball during the season is true, which makes the switch up for the Super Bowl all the more impressive coaching/playcalling wise.
 
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