GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - NFL Draft

[bigdaddyk88]

So Ben hasn't been a franchise QB over the past 10 years? I just want to be clear on your argument.

Yes.
Franchise QB don’t have a combined 3 tds in there teams last 3 playoff wins. He had juju AB and pro bowl Connor and finished 9-6-1 missed the playoffs

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yes.
Franchise QB don’t have a combined 3 tds in there teams last 3 playoff wins. He had juju AB and pro bowl Connor and finished 9-6-1 missed the playoffs

I guess we definitely see things differently. I'm going to assume that 99% of the football watching world doesn't agree with your take that BR wasn't a franchise QB the past 10 years.

 

[ChaosAgent]

So we are ok with making accusatory statements without any proof here?

The DA declined to convict BR due to ...what was it again? Oh yea "lack of evidence"
Same deal with whatever happened in Reno- "lack of evidence" sunk her claim too.

Now COULD he be a rapist? Sure, no one knows what went on except for the 2 people involved.

But there's quite a chasm between "could be" and "definitely is". The latter has not been proven according to the legal definition

Just be honest and say that your perception of his play is colored by his outside the lines shenanigans or that he's a bad tipper or he trash talks during pickup basketball games (my heavens!)

BR for a period of time was a true gamer with balls the NFL hasn't seen in quite some time. Now he's old and doesn't have the moxie he used to. But man there was no one better in the last 2 minutes for a good chunk of time in the NFL- that's a fact.

We've been through this and I'm near-banned (maybe deservedly)

I'll just say this. Roth was a great quarterback for many years, even if I don't think he's a good person. His 2014 in particular was electrifying stuff.

In his last 3 seasons, he led the league in interceptions in year 1, got hurt in year 2, and concocted a "10 yard offense" with his toady OC in order to basically avoid contact at all costs. Once that got figured out the Steelers played like a 4-win football team.

I expect him to be pretty bad this year too, but hoping he proves me wrong. And at least he took a paycut for the first time ever, so there's that.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

We've been through this and I'm near-banned (maybe deservedly)

I'll just say this. Roth was a great quarterback for many years, even if I don't think he's a good person. His 2014 in particular was electrifying stuff.

In his last 3 seasons, he led the league in interceptions in year 1, got hurt in year 2, and concocted a "10 yard offense" with his toady OC in order to basically avoid contact at all costs. Once that got figured out the Steelers played like a 4-win football team.

I expect him to be pretty bad this year too, but hoping he proves me wrong. And at least he took a paycut for the first time ever, so there's that.

This we can agree on. Ben the player was insanely good for a great majority of his career. Ben the person was probably not a guy I'd want my daughter to date.

I'd also say that Ben has seemed to make attempts to rehabilitate his image, but people/media will always dislike him. People were believing ANTONIO BROWN a couple years ago over Ben it was that bad. And don't even get me started how Peyton Manning is so beloved, yet he had his own flailings with the opposite sex (proven to boot). Oh and Mike Tyson is someone that's completely lauded, but he's got a way worse record criminally than Ben. The media is so hilarious in its bias and people eat that slop up without thought. This is why I'm honestly nervous that Ben won't make it 1st ballot- because "Pork Rinds" Peter King leads the pitchfork and torches brigade for the HOF.

Anyway sorry for diverting the conversation....

 

[ChaosAgent]

This we can agree on. Ben the player was insanely good for a great majority of his career. Ben the person was probably not a guy I'd want my daughter to date.

I'd also say that Ben has seemed to make attempts to rehabilitate his image, but people/media will always dislike him. People were believing ANTONIO BROWN a couple years ago over Ben it was that bad. And don't even get me started how Peyton Manning is so beloved, yet he had his own flailings with the opposite sex (proven to boot). Oh and Mike Tyson is someone that's completely lauded, but he's got a way worse record criminally than Ben. The media is so hilarious in its bias and people eat that slop up without thought. This is why I'm honestly nervous that Ben won't make it 1st ballot- because "Pork Rinds" Peter King leads the pitchfork and torches brigade for the HOF.

Anyway sorry for diverting the conversation....

You definitely don't have to apologize to me for taking the conversation on a tangent.

It's what I'm known for.

I dislike Ben the person, but Ben the player was awesome for the first 80% of his career. We've failed to move on. Oh well. Rudolph bridge to a high pick is still the plan after this year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This we can agree on. Ben the player was insanely good for a great majority of his career. Ben the person was probably not a guy I'd want my daughter to date.

I'd also say that Ben has seemed to make attempts to rehabilitate his image, but people/media will always dislike him. People were believing ANTONIO BROWN a couple years ago over Ben it was that bad. And don't even get me started how Peyton Manning is so beloved, yet he had his own flailings with the opposite sex (proven to boot). Oh and Mike Tyson is someone that's completely lauded, but he's got a way worse record criminally than Ben. The media is so hilarious in its bias and people eat that slop up without thought. This is why I'm honestly nervous that Ben won't make it 1st ballot- because "Pork Rinds" Peter King leads the pitchfork and torches brigade for the HOF.

Anyway sorry for diverting the conversation....

This is basically my take.

Roth seems like a huge dick, but that doesn’t mean he is or isn’t a rapist, nor does that mean isn’t a HOF QB we should appreciate.

Hes one of only a dozen QBs ever to have multiple rings. How people continue to overlook that is mind boggling.

He’s definitely old now and it’s a little sad he’s trying to hang on, but that’s his deal and it’s silly to rewrite how good he was in his prime because of that, or because an individual hates him as a person.

Who he is as a person doesn’t subtract from his talent on the football field.

AB is living proof of that.

 

[Khelandros]

Yes.
Franchise QB don’t have a combined 3 tds in there teams last 3 playoff wins. He had juju AB and pro bowl Connor and finished 9-6-1 missed the playoffs

Mahomes had 0 TD's and 2 Int's in his SB loss to the Bucs, not a Franchise QB.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Mahomes had 0 TD's and 2 Int's in his SB loss to the Bucs, not a Franchise QB.

Maholmes has 4 come from behind victories where his team was down 9 and they won by at least 9 since Bens last playoff win.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Who he is as a person doesn’t subtract from his talent on the football field.

AB is living proof of that.

This is where we maybe diverge in our opinions on AB.

Ben being a bad tipper doesn't impact the team. Getting suspended for a few games, certainly does.
AB throwing furniture off the balcony doesn't impact the team. AB basically going AWOL for the last week of the season in a must win game (2018) does impact the team.

There's nuance here. Exhibiting bad behavior doesn't necessarily make you a bad teammate, but when it bleeds into your course of work it does.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Steelers trade for Stephon Gilmore looking more likely than ever

Be interesting if it happened.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Steelers trade for Stephon Gilmore looking more likely than ever

Be interesting if it happened.

If we trade next year's first we are nuts. This guy may take us from 6 to 7-8 wins. Why?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If we trade next year's first we are nuts. This guy may take us from 6 to 7-8 wins. Why?

If they do this, I think it's a clear signal they are all in for Ben's last year(s). I'm not saying they should, but that's their thinking

Also CB depth is pretty atrocious as it stands so it's an obvious upgrade in a position of need.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If they do this, I think it's a clear signal they are all in for Ben's last year(s). I'm not saying they should, but that's their thinking

Also CB depth is pretty atrocious as it stands so it's an obvious upgrade in a position of need.

No doubt he would make us better. I agree with your interpretation of what their thinking is. As long as Ben is here we have to act like we're going for it, even if we stand zero chance.

 

[xlm34]

I wish they could just bring back Nelson. But that bridge is probably burned.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If we trade next year's first we are nuts. This guy may take us from 6 to 7-8 wins. Why?

Kinda like how we got Minka but yes this all in for Ben I wouldn’t put it past pouncey to come out of retirement mid season either

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I wish they could just bring back Nelson. But that bridge is probably burned.

He was held hostage and Tomlin likes volunteers

 

[ChaosAgent]

Kinda like how we got Minka but yes this all in for Ben I wouldn’t put it past pouncey to come out of retirement mid season either

Pouncey sucks, though.

I mean in the past he didn't. The last few years he sucked and he basically lost us the playoff game within the first 10 seconds.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Pouncey sucks, though.

I mean in the past he didn't. The last few years he sucked and he basically lost us the playoff game within the first 10 seconds.

I agree 100 percent however he is Bens BFF

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is where we maybe diverge in our opinions on AB.

Ben being a bad tipper doesn't impact the team. Getting suspended for a few games, certainly does.
AB throwing furniture off the balcony doesn't impact the team. AB basically going AWOL for the last week of the season in a must win game (2018) does impact the team.

There's nuance here. Exhibiting bad behavior doesn't necessarily make you a bad teammate, but when it bleeds into your course of work it does.

Well in total fairness, Roth did get suspended, which had a pretty negative effect on his teammates.

However, a guy’s talent has no correlation to him being a nice, morally upstanding citizen or even a good teammate.

Being a bad teammate doesn’t stop you from having a successful career focused on just personal accolades like AB.

Talent is talent… good guy, bad guy… good teammate, bad teammate.

Ie I despise Patrick Roy and think he’s a piece of human garbage, but if I tried to marginalize his success as an NHL player because I think he’s a total scumbag, it just makes me look like a fool.

To have a truly legit opinion others can respect, you have to separate the talent from the person off the field/ice.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Well in total fairness, Roth did get suspended, which had a pretty negative effect on his teammates.

However, a guy’s talent has no correlation to him being a nice, morally upstanding citizen or even a good teammate.

Being a bad teammate doesn’t stop you from having a successful career focused on just personal accolades like AB.

Talent is talent… good guy, bad guy… good teammate, bad teammate.

Ie I despise Patrick Roy and think he’s a piece of human garbage, but if I tried to marginalize his success as an NHL player because I think he’s a total scumbag, it just makes me look like a fool.

To have a truly legit opinion others can respect, you have to separate the talent from the person off the field/ice.

Yup- we're on the same page here. I should have been more clear- that sentence with getting suspended was directly related to BR. It did impact the team, but beyond that he's been a good teammate. I think they said it originally was 6, but he got it reduced to 4 for "good behavior"?

And while we're on the topic, funny how there are crickets from the NFL re: D. Watson. They suspended BR for less evidence

Again, the double standard with the media is obvious if people take a closer look.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yup- we're on the same page here. I should have been more clear- that sentence with getting suspended was directly related to BR. It did impact the team, but beyond that he's been a good teammate. I think they said it originally was 6, but he got it reduced to 4 for "good behavior"?

And while we're on the topic, funny how there are crickets from the NFL re: D. Watson. They suspended BR for less evidence

Again, the double standard with the media is obvious if people take a closer look.

Watson is about to spend the entire year on the commissioner’s exemption list this season. His trial doesn’t even start until next year

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Watson is about to spend the entire year on the commissioner’s exemption list this season. His trial doesn’t even start until next year

We'll see- Watsom had a high GQ rating in the NFL.
Note that Edelman had his charges dropped for groping a woman, no suspension. BR gets his charges dropped, yet got nailed for 6 games. Funny how that works.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We'll see- Watsom had a high GQ rating in the NFL.
Note that Edelman had his charges dropped for groping a woman, no suspension. BR gets his charges dropped, yet got nailed for 6 games. Funny how that works.

I think the Rooneys had a lot to do with the suspension.

I recall an article back then that said Rooney wanted to send Roth a message.

That’s why he never appeared with him at that bizarre press conference.

 

[Khelandros]

We'll see- Watsom had a high GQ rating in the NFL.
Note that Edelman had his charges dropped for groping a woman, no suspension. BR gets his charges dropped, yet got nailed for 6 games. Funny how that works.

Ray Rice got 2 as well, with a ton of evidence to back it up.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ray Rice got 2 as well, with a ton of evidence to back it up.

I think the video was so graphic and so widely shown, that the NFL had to do something for optics. If there was no video, I'm not so sure Rice would've gotten anything.