GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Here we go!

[bigdaddyk88]

There are too many fans still hypnotized by Tomlin's gift of gab to realize he sucks. You ever look at the posts on social media fan pages? They overwhelmingly support Tomlin and the mediocre streak. It seems the average fan really doesn't care about Championships or a championship contender. They're happy with the history and taking selfies in Steeler gear. It's very annoying but fan groups mirror the intelligence of America in general. They're satisfied with participation trophies. Tomlin is a good face of the organization in today's political climate and sounds like a genius to Joe American. He'll have to lose to the point where there are signs in the stands demanding his termination and we are years away from that.

There’s to many people who think championships or bust every season. A lot of good teams and good coaches only have 1 championship have multiple losing seasons and still employed by their teams. It’s a Qb league the best coaches in the world only go as far as their QB can take them.

 

[Andy99]

There’s to many people who think championships or bust every season. A lot of good teams and good coaches only have 1 championship have multiple losing seasons and still employed by their teams. It’s a Qb league the best coaches in the world only go as far as their QB can take them.

And Tomlin has had a top 10 QB, if not top 5 at times, since 2011 (excluding this season) and has done shit with it….

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk I think the answer here is fairly simple:

-Ben wasn't nearly as good as Steelers fans think he was.
-Tomlin's a bad coach who effectively rode Cowher's team to a super bowl. I think you can draw parallels between Tomlin and Bylsma.

Don't know why it's an either/or situation here, I think it's pretty clearly both. A "top-10 QB" doesn't go 13-9 in the playoffs with a TD-INT ratio of 34-28.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Idk I think the answer here is fairly simple:

-Ben wasn't nearly as good as Steelers fans think he was.
-Tomlin's a bad coach who effectively rode Cowher's team to a super bowl. I think you can draw parallels between Tomlin and Bylsma.

Don't know why it's an either/or situation here, I think it's pretty clearly both. A "top-10 QB" doesn't go 13-9 in the playoffs with a TD-INT ratio of 34-28.

Except Tomlin took them 2 Super Bowls so they 8-8 team he took over from cowher improved

 

[Khelandros]

And Tomlin has had a top 10 QB, if not top 5 at times, since 2011 (excluding this season) and has done shit with it….

Please see list of Tomlins illustrious company:

Andy Reid - Philadelphia
Pete Carroll - Seattle
Sean Payton - NO
John Harbaugh - Baltimore
Mike McCarthy - Green Bay
Mike Holmgren - Green Bay
Dick Vermeil - St. Louis
Tony Dungy - Indianapolis
Don Shula - Miami
Jimmy Johnson - Dallas
Mike Shanahan - Denver

All had top 10 QB's. Some even had the best players at their position. All have coached 10+ years. Only 3 have multiple Superbowl wins. Having a top 10 QB does not equal success.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Please see list of Tomlins illustrious company:

Andy Reid - Philadelphia
Pete Carroll - Seattle
Sean Payton - NO
John Harbaugh - Baltimore
Mike McCarthy - Green Bay
Mike Holmgren - Green Bay
Dick Vermeil - St. Louis
Tony Dungy - Indianapolis
Don Shula - Miami
Jimmy Johnson - Dallas
Mike Shanahan - Denver

All had top 10 QB's. Some even had the best players at their position. All have coached 10+ years. Only 3 have multiple Superbowl wins. Having a top 10 QB does not equal success.

Joe Flacco was a top 10 QB?

Also, Tony Dungy is another coach who underperformed considerably given the talent of his teams.

 

[Khelandros]

Joe Flacco was a top 10 QB?

Also, Tony Dungy is another coach who underperformed considerably given the talent of his teams.

Surprisingly enough, yes. There were a few seasons where he was a top 10 QB. Nothing close to the "Elite" title he gets, but he was good.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I agree, Flacco was easily top 10 for a few seasons.

John Elway was top 10 for Shanahan? They were successful and won those Super Bowls because of Terrell Davis and their offensive line.

Put that offensive line and TD with Ben and I bet he looks a lot better as well.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Titans’ Bud Dupree admits to having setbacks, redirection issue with knee

 

[Night Shift]

I agree, Flacco was easily top 10 for a few seasons.

John Elway was top 10 for Shanahan? They were successful and won those Super Bowls because of Terrell Davis and their offensive line.

Put that offensive line and TD with Ben and I bet he looks a lot better as well.

Elway was in his late 30s by then. Earlier in his career he is definitely top 5.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There’s to many people who think championships or bust every season. A lot of good teams and good coaches only have 1 championship have multiple losing seasons and still employed by their teams. It’s a Qb league the best coaches in the world only go as far as their QB can take them.

How about a playoff win?

Wait - I’ll lower my expectations since it’s Tomlin:

How about a playoff loss that isn’t an all-time debacle?

I’ll take that, since Tomlin’s MO is all about record setting playoff disasters.

 

[Night Shift]

There’s to many people who think championships or bust every season. A lot of good teams and good coaches only have 1 championship have multiple losing seasons and still employed by their teams. It’s a Qb league the best coaches in the world only go as far as their QB can take them.

This is no longer championship or bust. This rolling out the same clown show year after year as a laughing stock

Jibba Jabba also has an 8-8 playoff record. Most all of those wins came 14 years ago

 

[T1K]

Idk I think the answer here is fairly simple:

-Ben wasn't nearly as good as Steelers fans think he was.
-Tomlin's a bad coach who effectively rode Cowher's team to a super bowl. I think you can draw parallels between Tomlin and Bylsma.

Don't know why it's an either/or situation here, I think it's pretty clearly both. A "top-10 QB" doesn't go 13-9 in the playoffs with a TD-INT ratio of 34-28.

Bad coaches don’t go 15 seasons without a losing record. I want a change at HC just as much as anyone, but to suggest he’s a bad coach is just blatantly wrong. Ben is a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Coaches skirt by all the time on the quality of their roster; 85% of winning in any sport is the talent available. You can determine how good a HC is in 3 key ways:

1. How prepared his teams are for their opponents.

Do they come out flat? Do they ever look overwhelmed or outmatched? Do they consistently lose games to lesser competition?

The answers to all of these are not in favor of Tomlin. His teams regularly look unprepared, flat, overwhelmed, and/or outmatched. They consistently lose to weaker opponents, and have embarrassed themselves frequently in big games.

2. Game management.

Whether it be in-game adjustments, situational decisions, or timeout/ clock management, a good coach should have a mastery of this part of the game.

Situations that require a mastery of situational football do not confound good coaches, but they do Mike Tomlin. Almost every game we can point to decisions made that confound even the broadcasters.

3. The most important indicator: success in spite of talent. This indicates a deep knowledge of the game, an ability to adjust, and a high level of scheming. It doesn't necessarily mean winning championships, but it does mean their team is routinely punching above its weight.

Again, this is not in Tomlin's favor. Tomlin's supporters often point to the year without Ben where they went 8-8. On the surface, it does look like a decent coaching job, but any further analysis reveals it wasn't anything special. The Steelers that year had possibly the easiest schedule of all time. They had just one win over a team with a winning record, the 9-7 Rams. They scrapped with the bottom of the league and emerged with a .500 record. Not that impressive, and all because they couldn't adjust to not having Ben. They still had a good OL. They still had very good skill position players. Yet they could not make any of it work on offense. They finished second-to-last in passing and fourth-to-last in rushing - again, against the league’s easiest schedule. This tells us Tomlin leans heavily on the individual talent of his players, does little to no complex scheming, and has little ability to adjust.

So no, Mike Tomlin is not a good coach. He's probably not even a decent coach. It's likely he's a bad coach who's been extremely lucky to have a HOF QB and a HOF GM propping him up, and a whole bunch of people willing to make excuses for him.

 

[T1K]

Coaches skirt by all the time on the quality of their roster; 85% of winning in any sport is the talent available. You can determine how good a HC is in 3 key ways:

1. How prepared his teams are for their opponents.

Do they come out flat? Do they ever look overwhelmed or outmatched? Do they consistently lose games to lesser competition? Does he ever beat superior opponents with less talent?

The answer to all of these are not in favor of Tomlin. His teams regularly look unprepared, flat, overwhelmed, and outmatched. They consistently lose to weaker opponents, and almost never overcome their talent shortcomings to beat an opponent.

2. Game management.

Whether it be in-game adjustments, situational decisions, or timeout/ clock management, a good coach should have a mastery of this part of the game.

Situations that require a mastery of situational football do not confound good coaches, but they do Mike Tomlin. Almost every game you can point to decisions made that confound even the broadcasters.

3. The most important indicator: success in spite of talent. This indicates a deep knowledge of the game and a high level of scheming. It doesn't necessarily mean winning championships, but it does mean their teams typically punch above their weight.

Again, this is not in Tomlin's favor. Tomlin's supporters often point to the year without Ben where they went 8-8. On the surface, it does look like a decent coaching job, but any further analysis reveals it wasn't really The Steelers that year had possibly the easiest schedule of all time. They had just one win over a team with a winning record, the 9-7 Rams. They scrapped with the bottom of the league and emerged with a .500 record. All because they couldn't adjust to not having Ben. They still had a good OL. They still had very good skill position players. Yet they could not make any of it work. They finished second-to-last in passing and fourth-to-last in rushing - again against the leagues easiest schedule. This tells us Tomlin heavily leans on the individual talent of his players and does little to no complex scheming and has little ability to adjust.

So no, Mike Tomlin is not a good coach. He's probably not even a decent coach. It's likely he's a bad coach who's been extremely lucky to have a HOF QB and a HOF GM propping him up, and a whole bunch of people willing to make excuses for him.

Is Sean Payton a good coach in your opinion?

Be careful in how you answer. The statistics and situations are awfully similar.

 

[Night Shift]

Coaches skirt by all the time on the quality of their roster; 85% of winning in any sport is the talent available. You can determine how good a HC is in 3 key ways:

1. How prepared his teams are for their opponents.

Do they come out flat? Do they ever look overwhelmed or outmatched? Do they consistently lose games to lesser competition? Does he ever beat superior opponents with less talent?

The answer to all of these are not in favor of Tomlin. His teams regularly look unprepared, flat, overwhelmed, and outmatched. They consistently lose to weaker opponents, and almost never overcome their talent shortcomings to beat an opponent.

2. Game management.

Whether it be in-game adjustments, situational decisions, or timeout/ clock management, a good coach should have a mastery of this part of the game.

Situations that require a mastery of situational football do not confound good coaches, but they do Mike Tomlin. Almost every game you can point to decisions made that confound even the broadcasters.

3. The most important indicator: success in spite of talent. This indicates a deep knowledge of the game and a high level of scheming. It doesn't necessarily mean winning championships, but it does mean their teams typically punch above their weight.

Again, this is not in Tomlin's favor. Tomlin's supporters often point to the year without Ben where they went 8-8. On the surface, it does look like a decent coaching job, but any further analysis reveals it wasn't really The Steelers that year had possibly the easiest schedule of all time. They had just one win over a team with a winning record, the 9-7 Rams. They scrapped with the bottom of the league and emerged with a .500 record. All because they couldn't adjust to not having Ben. They still had a good OL. They still had very good skill position players. Yet they could not make any of it work. They finished second-to-last in passing and fourth-to-last in rushing - again against the leagues easiest schedule. This tells us Tomlin heavily leans on the individual talent of his players and does little to no complex scheming and has little ability to adjust.

So no, Mike Tomlin is not a good coach. He's probably not even a decent coach. It's likely he's a bad coach who's been extremely lucky to have a HOF QB and a HOF GM propping him up, and a whole bunch of people willing to make excuses for him.

I couldn't have said it any better. Well done.

I want to add that when players here leave to go to better run teams notice they tend to struggle because they aren't properly developed under Tomlin.

 

[Night Shift]

Is Sean Payton a good coach in your opinion?

Here we go with the Sean Peyton again

Sean Peyton is going to pass Jibba Jabba in wins this year with Jamis Winston as his QB

 

[DanielPlainview]

Is Sean Payton a good coach in your opinion?

Be careful in how you answer. The statistics and situations are awfully similar.

No, I don’t have a high opinion of Sean Payton

 

[T1K]

No, I don’t have a high opinion of Sean Payton

Just a couple of guys who have managed to stick around in the most competitive professional sport…

 

[DanielPlainview]

A team having loyalty to their HC does not prove anything. If either of these guys had gotten jobs with the Raiders or Cowboys they’d probably be coordinators in college football right now

 

[Night Shift]

I think Peyton though was considered a really good OC before he got the Saints HC...unlike Jibba Jabba who only got the job because he had "a good interview," wasnt anything else before that

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A team having loyalty to their HC does not prove anything. If either of these guys had gotten jobs with the Raiders or Cowboys they’d probably be coordinators in college football right now

This is true. It proves that crap organizations can hamper even good coaches.

 

[DanielPlainview]

More like franchises with misplaced priorities can hold themselves back

 

[xlm34]

I’d be curious to see if anyone did some sort of analysis recently that looked at whether the Steelers actually lose to lesser teams more often than is normal. I feel like that’s just a narrative that a lot of people run with but it would be the case with most other teams in the league.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Here comes the excuses brigade