OT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Good JuJu comes at a high price

[xlm34]

For anybody that actually cares what the "experts" say. Somebody added all their grades and divided.

Steelers - 9th worst draft.

Ravens - 3rd best.

Bengals - 5th best.

Browns - 7th best.


Exactly what I've been saying. Steelers only 9th worst because they got an all pro safety out of it. Take Minkah out and only the Packers had a worse draft.

Ravens were already better and 3rd best in deep draft pulls them further away.

Browns were close. I mean we lose to them twice if MG isn't suspended. Depends on Ben and 7th best in deep draft. We are neck and neck and they might be better.

Bengals are finally on the right trajectory but a few years behind. We keep drafting Terps players and they will be better than us in no time.

Yeah I found the same thing from the 2017 draft and they had the Steelers draft ranked 19th. Kansas City was ranked 27th which seems pretty accurate by the experts since they only ended up with Mahomes. Browns were the top team and the Patriots were 2nd. Hopefully the experts are as wrong about this draft as they were about that one.

Grades are fun to look at, but there’s absolutely zero way to accurately rank a draft class before any of the players actually take a snap. Any expert’s analysis is going to be based on how many picks a team had or whether or not the team picked based on the rankings they created.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I sure as hell prefer players from winning programs like Penn St and Ohio St over players from a school that cancels class to lose 59-0 in front of their home crowd while the PSU contingent gracefully invaded their student section.

The Ravens do what they do. They lose some great players to free agency/retirement, but fill their needs in the draft. Hell they had four 3rd round picks.

...but like I said, they do what they do. It’s nothing new. Harbaugh was about to be fired after missing the playoffs 4/5 years after winning the SB and started out 4-5 in 2018.

Then Lamar Jackson became a thing and they’ve been 20-3 in the regular season since. Just needs to figure out how to win in the playoffs which is inevitable if they keep finding themselves in the mix. AFCN favorites by a long shot.

Ravens will probably be the top team this year and will trounce us. They shored up their D and yes Dobbins is a great fit.

The Ravens needed a JuJu fumble in OT to beat the Steelers with MR at QB and then beat them when they had literally the worst QB I’ve ever witnessed as a Steelers fan. Hodges made me wish for the glory days of Kent Graham.

Guys like Jackson eventually get figured out by this league if they don’t evolve into traditional passers. If he was like Mahomes, I’d be way more concerned.

If Roth is healthy the Ravens aren’t anymore of a challenge than they have ever been over the years. If Roth is done, then it doesn’t really matter anyway.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

NFL.com gave us an A- and this year was an even bigger crap shoot than typical years due to the lack of scouts being able to get together frequently and come to a consensus on player’s grades, rankings, attributes, etc.

Reuter gave them an A- as well.

Most experts like their draft and even the wannabe experts on the Steeler forum I visit were mostly happy, which never happens.

They already got one all pro from this draft like I said, and need one more starter to make it a really good one.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Obviously draft grades 2 days after the draft mean nothing. But it's hard to find complaints about the Steelers draft so far.

 

[SouthGeorge]

 

[Shockmaster]

Reuter gave them an A- as well.

Most experts like their draft and even the wannabe experts on the Steeler forum I visit were mostly happy, which never happens.

They already got one all pro from this draft like I said, and need one more starter to make it a really good one.

Wait, the posters on a yinzer board were happy? No way! They're always screaming at the top of their lungs for the Steelers to badly reach for the next Casey Hampton in the 1st round.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Wait, the posters on a yinzer board were happy? No way! They're always screaming at the top of their lungs for the Steelers to badly reach for the next Casey Hampton in the 1st round.

This is the only Steeler board I visit, usually during draft time and maybe a few times during the season. So I can’t speak for overall Yinzer land, but I’ve been visiting this board for years enough to know they know their shit, but too many of them get caught up in being draft gurus and melting down when their guys aren’t taken.

This year was different though... lots of happy posters stoked about the draft. General consensus seems to be they plucked a first round talent at WR and landed a potential starting guard.

I was shocked how many of them were stoked about the McFarland pick. Apparently a number of people have come out and defended his character since that anonymous hit piece as well.

The experts mostly range from As to B- with a few Cs sprinkled in here and there. So there is a really positive vibe about this class all over.

I used to be a big draft guy when I was younger, but never did silly mocks or deemed myself an expert. However, this is the first time in years I could break down prospects like I used to for obvious reasons.., and I believe they did well also.

 

[OnMyOwn]

It goes to show that rankings are bs. One guy has it an A- while another a D- hahaha. It’s a B in general and like was mentioned....we got Minkah with pick 18 for f***s sake. An All Pro who is one of, if not the best, safeties in the game. Oh and he is only entering year 3. Crazy how anyone could complain...well not anyone I guess.

 

[SouthGeorge]

It goes to show that rankings are bs. One guy has it an A- while another a D- hahaha. It’s a B in general and like was mentioned....we got Minkah with pick 18 for f***s sake. An All Pro who is one of, if not the best, safeties in the game. Oh and he is only entering year 3. Crazy how anyone could complain...well not anyone I guess.

Why does everybody judge drafts off one player? You get 5-6 picks. People did the same thing with Bush.

I've come around on Claypool since everybody says he's a Metcalf clone. But I still think we could have traded back on our first two picks and got another 3rd and higher quality picks. Highsmith was a reach and was he really needed with Ola and Skipper? What about center? Guard?

 

[Al Smith]

It goes to show that rankings are bs. One guy has it an A- while another a D- hahaha. It’s a B in general and like was mentioned....we got Minkah with pick 18 for f***s sake. An All Pro who is one of, if not the best, safeties in the game. Oh and he is only entering year 3. Crazy how anyone could complain...well not anyone I guess.

Predicting/grading drafts is a great gig, because by the time you can actually truly grade a draft, two or three more drafts have taken place. So people mostly forget each given draft and what a crappy job someone did predicting/grading it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It goes to show that rankings are bs. One guy has it an A- while another a D- hahaha. It’s a B in general and like was mentioned....we got Minkah with pick 18 for f***s sake. An All Pro who is one of, if not the best, safeties in the game. Oh and he is only entering year 3. Crazy how anyone could complain...well not anyone I guess.

A lot of people are struggling to grasp the Fitz aspect. Steelers already got an A+ before the draft even started IMHO.

It reminds me of a couple years ago when my wife bought me $700 skates as an early Christmas gift. I had to obviously pick them out myself and I started using them in early December.

Come Christmas time I didn’t have a gift to open from her so it felt weird and slightly disappointing... but it didn’t change the reality I still got a pair of the best skates I have ever owned.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

A lot of people are struggling to grasp the Fitz aspect. Steelers already got an A+ before the draft even started IMHO.

It reminds me of a couple years ago when my wife bought me $700 skates as an early a Christmas gift. I had to obviously pick them out myself and I started using them in early December.

Come Christmas time I didn’t have a gift to open from her so it felt weird and slightly disappointing... but it didn’t change the reality I still got a pair of the best skates I have ever owned.

While I agree with this, good drafts are judged by the number of starters/ useful players. Anyone can draft a good player in the 1st round. The good teams find starters in the later rounds.

For example the 2018 draft is a bust because we drafted 1 starter (Edmunds) and the rest are meh backups. Meanwhile the 2017 draft was awesome because he got 3 pro bowler (Watt, Juju, Conner).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

While I agree with this, good drafts are judged by the number of starters/ useful players. Anyone can draft a good player in the 1st round. The good teams find starters in the later rounds.

For example the 2018 draft is a bust because we drafted 1 starter (Edmunds) and the rest are meh backups. Meanwhile the 2017 draft was awesome because he got 3 pro bowler (Watt, Juju, Conner).

Well, it’s a little disingenuous to say anyone can draft good and useful starters in the first round, because 47% of them have busted over the last 20 years. Steelers don’t have to worry about that happening with how they spent their first rounder though.

I already said earlier this goes from a very good to a great draft if they land another starter.

People forget the 03 and 04 draft produced all busts except Ike and Starks... yet those are considered great drafts because they took Roth and Polo.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Given the lack of picks I am fine with the Steelers draft. Lot of upside to me with fewer of the guys seemingly destined to get cut before the season.

 

[SouthGeorge]

While I agree with this, good drafts are judged by the number of starters/ useful players. Anyone can draft a good player in the 1st round. The good teams find starters in the later rounds.

For example the 2018 draft is a bust because we drafted 1 starter (Edmunds) and the rest are meh backups. Meanwhile the 2017 draft was awesome because he got 3 pro bowler (Watt, Juju, Conner).

Last good draft was 2017 and no Tomlin guys. He wanted Edmunds because he knew the family blah blah. More proof is signing his brother. He wanted Rudolph which screwed us up beyond belief I'm not even going to list all the reasons.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Last good draft was 2017 and no Tomlin guys. He wanted Edmunds because he knew the family blah blah. More proof is signing his brother. He wanted Rudolph which screwed us up beyond belief I'm not even going to list all the reasons.

2019 has shown promise. Mostly Bush and Johnson. If they keep progressing they will be stars. Too early to tell on the other guys.

 

[SouthGeorge]

2019 has shown promise. Mostly Bush and Johnson. If they keep progressing they will be stars. Too early to tell on the other guys.

So two starters. That's the problem imo. Everybody crapped on the Raiders draft last year and they got like 6 starters and arguably the best. Yes, they had a lot of picks but it was a way less deep draft. They got Josh Jacobs with 24th pick. In this deep draft that's the equivalent of getting Dobbins at 55. They got Crosby at 106 and he had 10 sacks last year. We got Highsmith at 102 and he won't even see the field. 4th and 5th they got their TE and WR, Moreau and Renfrow. That's like 10 tds right there. I would have taken Renfrow as our possession receiver. You can possession receivers in any draft.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I'm still baffled at how we lose two players arguably the best at their position. Last year we had no 2nd. No 1st this year and only 6 picks. Raiders lose Mack and Cooper(couldn't hold ABs jock) and have 3 first round picks. Another thing completely botched by management.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I'm still baffled at how we lose two players arguably the best at their position. Last year we had no 2nd. No 1st this year and only 6 picks. Raiders lose Mack and Cooper(couldn't hold ABs jock) and have 3 first round picks. Another thing completely botched by management.

They traded Mack for two 1sts and trader Cooper for a 1st. What is hard for you to understand about those transactions?

AB has literally no value. He was kicked off of 3 teams in a span of 3 months. Getting a 3rd for him in hindsight is a steal.

Bell left because he was a free agent. Steelers offered to make him the highest paid RB and he said no. You don't know how free agency works?

 

[SouthGeorge]

They traded Mack for two 1sts and trader Cooper for a 1st. What is hard for you to understand about those transactions?

AB has literally no value. He was kicked off of 3 teams in a span of 3 months. Getting a 3rd for him in hindsight is a steal.

Bell left because he was a free agent. Steelers offered to make him the highest paid RB and he said no. You don't know how free agency works?

AB should have been traded when he was begging for more money before honoring the contract he didn't even deserve when given. Steelers never do that and broke protocol. They could have easily got a 1st then. Bell should have been traded for at least a 2nd year or two before.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

AB should have been traded when he was begging for more money before honoring the contract he didn't even deserve when given. Steelers never do that and broke protocol. They could have easily got a 1st then. Bell should have been traded for at least a 2nd year or two before.

Just like you said they were the best in the NFL at their positions. So they were obviously worth the money.
Bills offered a 1st for AB but AB refused to play there. He lowered his own trade value so he could control where he goes.
Trading away a prime Bell on a rookie contract is stupid and illogical. They wanted to keep him, and rightfully so.

You are a serial complainer. If they trade away Bell you would be saying "Steelers don't care about winning they're losers". If they try to sign Bell you say "they're incompetent didn't even get a 2nd for him".

You don't understand the situation with the team yet you complain about everything, while spamming the message boards with your nonsense.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Just like you said they were the best in the NFL at their positions. So they were obviously worth the money.
Bills offered a 1st for AB but AB refused to play there. He lowered his own trade value so he could control where he goes.
Trading away a prime Bell on a rookie contract is stupid and illogical. They wanted to keep him, and rightfully so.

You are a serial complainer. If they trade away Bell you would be saying "Steelers don't care about winning they're losers". If they try to sign Bell you say "they're incompetent didn't even get a 2nd for him".

You don't understand the situation with the team yet you complain about everything, while spamming the message boards with your nonsense.

I understand and follow the Steelers probably more than most here. They could have worked out a sign and trade in the off-season before. They really thought he was going to play on the tag again and were wrong. There's a reason the cap guy peace'd with Tepper.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If only the Steelers could be run like the Browns and Bengals... collect top ten picks like trading cards, season after season... and have zero playoff wins between them in the last 25 years.

Want some real perspective... the last time one of these two clown units won a playoff game, Kordell Stewart was a rookie and was soon going to do Lamar Jackson things.

While I respect the Ravens, all the fear and praise around here acting like they are the Patriots is f***ing comical.

They haven’t won a playoff game since 2015... derp.

They are coming off one of the most embarrassing playoff losses not just in franchise history, but NFL history.

It’s mind boggling some people never learn not to overreact every draft.

 

[SouthGeorge]

If only the Steelers could be run like the Browns and Bengals... collect top ten picks like trading cards, season after season... and have zero playoff wins between them in the last 25 years.

Want some real perspective... the last time one of these two clown units won a playoff game, Kordell Stewart was a rookie and was soon going to do Lamar Jackson things.

While I respect the Ravens, all the fear and praise around here acting like they are the Patriots is f***ing comical.

They haven’t won a playoff game since 2015... derp.

They are coming off one of the most embarrassing playoff losses not just in franchise history, but NFL history.

It’s mind boggling some people never learn not to overreact every draft.

A lot of young QBs/players fold in their first big playoff game. Then they got the experience and get over the hump. Add, killing it at that draft. I don't know how you're not scared of the Ravens.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

A lot of young QBs/players fold in their first big playoff game. Then they got the experience and get over the hump. Add, killing it at that draft. I don't know how you're not scared of the Ravens.

Ravens have been killing the draft for years now. Still haven’t won a playoff game in over five years.

Jackson has lost his first two playoff games now, let’s not act like he has no experience there.

And the last time the Steelers played him, he tossed three picks, got out played by MR and it took a Juju fumble to save the Ravens.

Why exactly should I be afraid of him?