OT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Claypool > Metcalf

[SouthGeorge]

Tough to read much into who's being used as the primary kick/punt returner. DJ did well last year as a returner, and already has a TD called back this year, IIRC. Tomlin used AB on returns even though he was the best WR in the game.

As far as cap goes, they can backload new contracts with Ben coming off the books in mind.

DJ has been neutral as a returner imo. He has the ability to take one to the house but also fumble. He's also made some questionable decisions fielding.

The biggest thing is I would think after a couple injuries Tomlin would go you know we need you on offense more than returning and we have Ray Ray. But I guess that would fall under living in your fears and we don't do that.

Yeah I def get all of that. Its true. And if Ben was still in his prime I would completely agree. I am just worried about when he leaves. We would be much better off with these 4 WRs if we have someone like Sam Darnold replacing Ben...as opposed to being down to 3 WRs(then if one gets hurt we are in even worse shape). And I am factoring in DJ being injury prone. There were years we were fine with just two solid WRs but again...that was with Ben. So to me, its more about the timing of the situation. I wish Juju had one more year so we could have a better idea.

And btw, if we go one more year not having JW put up great numbers then we can def keep him at around 6mil or so on his next deal. He would then take off when given more targets. And By then we will also know what QB replaces Ben.

I also love having 4 due to the injury factor. Whether one is injury prone or not we had plenty of playoffs ruined due to injuries at WR and RB.

I commend you for thinking about the future and trying to win without Ben. After what I saw last season I lost all hope. I just want one more before we spend a decade looking for a franchise QB. All I ask.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Tough to read much into who's being used as the primary kick/punt returner. DJ did well last year as a returner, and already has a TD called back this year, IIRC. Tomlin used AB on returns even though he was the best WR in the game.

As far as cap goes, they can backload new contracts with Ben coming off the books in mind.

We are already 25 mil over the cap for next year, and thats not counting Ben going from being paid 20 mil to 40mil. So we either need to extend him another year to get it back down to 20 mil or move on from him which would have the same result. No way can we have him at 40mil.

Dupree will be gone. His 15mil off the books yet still 25mil over. Getting Ben back down to 20 mil would solve most of it. Moving Vance would save another 5mil. So those 2 moves get us even with the cap. We arent going to sign Bud anyway, but there is Juju, Villanueva, Hilton, Feiller, Alualu, Sutton, Wormley, and so on. Its a big list this year. Sure we could move on from most and just make sure we have another great draft(letting Villanueva go and taking OL in first round). Feiller is gone. Alualu has been great but he will be gone and we will look to have Wormley be the next DT. Someone who hasnt really played yet in his career but has shown flashes. Like Cam Sutton has. Keep both of them.

But we will have no money for any free agents. Even if we restructure both Haden and Nelson again. Who are both due a 14mil cap hit next year. I doubt Colbert lets that happen. Either extended or traded/released.

There are things we can do but no matter what we are gonna be back to having very little quality depth. Next few drafts are huge. A few trades should happen as well. Id like a SS to replace Edmunds for now. Or an ILB like Blake Martinez who is great in coverage and a tackling machine. Line him up next to Bush. Giants signed him for 3x30. 10mil a year is great for what he brings. Its a short enough contract too that will be done with by the time we need to sign both Fitz and Bush.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I'd prefer to follow the Packers' strategy of drafting the next QB a couple of seasons before parting with the longtime franchise QB. Unless they plan on a full rebuild after Ben leaves, but I don't think that will be necessary. The team has a lot of young talent.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

DJ has been neutral as a returner imo. He has the ability to take one to the house but also fumble. He's also made some questionable decisions fielding.

The biggest thing is I would think after a couple injuries Tomlin would go you know we need you on offense more than returning and we have Ray Ray. But I guess that would fall under living in your fears and we don't do that.



I commend you for thinking about the future and trying to win without Ben. After what I saw last season I lost all hope. I just want one more before we spend a decade looking for a franchise QB. All I ask.

Haha. Well I do think its a must to get one more before Ben retires.

We talk about this year being our best roster but next year we could be better. Even with losing Bud and possibly Juju. Bush, Fitz will have another year of experience(it took Shazier a few years before he turned into that dominant ILb...as well as Polamalu). Them getting better should offset some losses on D.

Also, next year is when Mahomes 500mil contract kicks in. Cap hit goes from 5mil to 45 the following year. They have a lot of other FAs too. Ravens, have to pay Ronnie Stanley(projected to be highest paid OL ever at over 20 mil). Then the next year they have to pay Lamar Jackson his 40mil. Mark Andrews will get a big contract.

It does balance things out. If Im Colbert I am focusing on this year and next. Even if we have to trade another 1st(or 2nd this time) for help at ILB or SS(Vikes are 1-4..Eric Kendricks at ILB next to Bush or SS Harrison Smith over Edmunds would be huge for us). We dont necessarily have to add a top talent to go with what we have on D but at least a vet that isnt washed up. Someone who is good in coverage and has playoff experience.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I'd prefer to follow the Packers' strategy of drafting the next QB a couple of seasons before parting with the longtime franchise QB. Unless they plan on a full rebuild after Ben leaves, but I don't think that will be necessary. The team has a lot of young talent.

They tried that with Rudolph when Ben was being a diva and saying he might retire. Plus, we saw how that went with the Packers.

Haha. Well I do think its a must to get one more before Ben retires.

We talk about this year being our best roster but next year we could be better. Even with losing Bud and possibly Juju. Bush, Fitz will have another year of experience(it took Shazier a few years before he turned into that dominant ILb...as well as Polamalu). Them getting better should offset some losses on D.

Also, next year is when Mahomes 500mil contract kicks in. Cap hit goes from 5mil to 45 the following year. They have a lot of other FAs too. Ravens, have to pay Ronnie Stanley(projected to be highest paid OL ever at over 20 mil). Then the next year they have to pay Lamar Jackson his 40mil. Mark Andrews will get a big contract. .

I think this will be the best chance with Ben. Losing Bud and Juju will be huge. Plus, all the questions with the o-line. Conner is probably gone for better or worse. I'm not sure how you think they could fill all that to this current level in Bens remanding window.

I get what your saying about the other teams cap but that has nothing to do with our roster. Chiefs look beatable this year. Bills look tough and always have our number. But I think it comes down to if we can beat the Ravens.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

They tried that with Rudolph when Ben was being a diva and saying he might retire. Plus, we saw how that went with the Packers.



I think this will be the best chance with Ben. Losing Bud and Juju will be huge. Plus, all the questions with the o-line. Conner is probably gone for better or worse. I'm not sure how you think they could fill all that to this current level in Bens remanding window.

I get what your saying about the other teams cap but that has nothing to do with our roster. Chiefs look beatable this year. Bills look tough and always have our number. But I think it comes down to if we can beat the Ravens.

It would depend heavily on the draft. We would need 2 more picks that could step in right away. OL in the first round would have to make the impact Pouncey and DeCastro did for us. Also we may have three 3rd round picks next year. We could use one to move up to early 2nd round and get that top OLB/ILB or even RB if Etienne somehow lasts until like 35 or so. A top OL pick with Etienne would help out our offense even more. Or get the OLB to replace Bud. Its still early...big ten hasnt started yet. There are a lot of OLB/ILB types that could be first round talents. Id prefer one of those over Highsmith who can only rush the passer.

Colbert has his work cut out for him.

 

[DanielPlainview]

They tried that with Rudolph when Ben was being a diva and saying he might retire. Plus, we saw how that went with the Packers.

Replacing Favre with Rodgers worked out. I don’t think Rudolph was ever more than a hopeful project that could be a good backup.

Given the Jags have been handing out good players like candy on Halloween lately, I’d be tempted to dangle something for Minshew. Dude is a stud in a horrific situation

 

[ChaosAgent]

Thats crazy. Now just imagine if we could have been just as half as good as that with DBs. That was our downfall. The years we had great teams , usually drafted well at every position besides that. We still cant pick them. Or a combo of drafting them and developing.

I'll agree with that. I'm guessing a lot of NFL fans feel like their secondary is their perpetual weak spot since the passing game reigns over the NFL now...but sheesh do I ever feel like our secondary is our weakness.

The low point was undoubtedly the Blake Bortles thrashing of January 2018. Was pathetic to watch.

 

[DanielPlainview]

The Bortles loss was bad. Almost as bad as the Tebow game

 

[SouthGeorge]

Replacing Favre with Rodgers worked out. I don’t think Rudolph was ever more than a hopeful project that could be a good backup.

Given the Jags have been handing out good players like candy on Halloween lately, I’d be tempted to dangle something for Minshew. Dude is a stud in a horrific situation

Yeah it worked out barely. Then Rodgers got all mad over Love like Ben did Rudolph. Whatever it takes to play QB they don't like the thought of grooming their successor.

Isn't he the Jags franchise QB why would they trade him?

 

[Bingo71]

The Steelers secondary has always been relatively weak but it has been covered by a steady stream of strong front 7 players who get after QBs.

We have also witnessed both LeBeau and Butler seemingly try to shelter the poor secondary with the defenses they’ve called. How many times have we watched the corners play 10 yards off the line of scrimmage when playing Brady and the Pats, a team that operated on short crossers? They were told to “keep everything in front of them” much like a prevent D, because they weren’t trusted to jam receivers or in man coverage.

And we have watched a long list of no name QBs beat this team under Tomlin’s tenure. I mean, Blake Bortles, Brady Quinn, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Tannehill, Kellen Clemens, Matt Cassel, Bruce Gradkowski, Mike Glennon, Ryan Mallet and more. They almost lost to AJ McCarron if not for the dumbf***ery of Burfict and Pac-Man...

 

[DanielPlainview]

Yeah it worked out barely. Then Rodgers got all mad over Love like Ben did Rudolph. Whatever it takes to play QB they don't like the thought of grooming their successor.

Isn't he the Jags franchise QB why would they trade him?

It worked out barely? Rodgers is an all-time great first ballot HOF lol

Because the Jags are a dumpster fire

 

[ChaosAgent]

The Steelers secondary has always been relatively weak but it has been covered by a steady stream of strong front 7 players who get after QBs.

We have also witnessed both LeBeau and Butler seemingly try to shelter the poor secondary with the defenses they’ve called. How many times have we watched the corners play 10 yards off the line of scrimmage when playing Brady and the Pats, a team that operated on short crossers? They were told to “keep everything in front of them” much like a prevent D, because they weren’t trusted to jam receivers or in man coverage.

And we have watched a long list of no name QBs beat this team under Tomlin’s tenure. I mean, Blake Bortles, Brady Quinn, Terrelle Pryor, Ryan Tannehill, Kellen Clemens, Matt Cassel, Bruce Gradkowski, Mike Glennon, Ryan Mallet and more. They almost lost to AJ McCarron if not for the dumbf***ery of Burfict and Pac-Man...

There's never been an "OMG We got THAT guy" in the secondary. Okay, Polamalu. But he was more of a tackling savant and freak athlete than coverage guru.

The Ike, Deshea, Polamalu and Clark secondaries were probably the best of my lifetime...but that still isn't saying a lot coverage-wise.

It may also be a scheme thing with all the zone.

 

[DanielPlainview]

There’s really no reason why our secondary should be getting burnt like it has if you look at the talent there. It’s not a personnel problem.

 

[DanielPlainview]

There's never been an "OMG We got THAT guy" in the secondary. Okay, Polamalu. But he was more of a tackling savant and freak athlete than coverage guru.

The Ike, Deshea, Polamalu and Clark secondaries were probably the best of my lifetime...but that still isn't saying a lot coverage-wise.

It may also be a scheme thing with all the zone.

We’ve been so bad at developing DBs for so long that Colbert had to resort to the most un-Steelers-like thing and build the starting core almost entirely out of free agents and big name trades. I think the Artie Burns and Edmunds picks sent him over the edge.

 

[OnMyOwn]

There’s really no reason why our secondary should be getting burnt like it has if you look at the talent there. It’s not a personnel problem.

It’s a scheme thing, minkah needs to be moved around more and they need to disguise coverages. We’ve basically gone balls out on blitzing and it’s leaving our secondary exposed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

There's never been an "OMG We got THAT guy" in the secondary. Okay, Polamalu. But he was more of a tackling savant and freak athlete than coverage guru.

The Ike, Deshea, Polamalu and Clark secondaries were probably the best of my lifetime...but that still isn't saying a lot coverage-wise.

It may also be a scheme thing with all the zone.

Donnie Shell, Mel Blount and Mike Wagner would like a word with you.

Not to mention Rod Woodson and Jack Butler.

 

[Pengwins]

The Ike, Deshea, Polamalu and Clark secondaries were probably the best of my lifetime...but that still isn't saying a lot coverage-wise.

In the 90s they had a great secondary of Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Darren Perry and I’m blanking on the other corner but he was decent

 

[cookthebooks]

postseason bubble in la/dallas...will they even make it that far tho

 

[Shockmaster]

postseason bubble in la/dallas...will they even make it that far tho

Wouldn't be able to have a bubble in a pacific or mountain time zone city. With a 7th playoff team in each conference that means 3 games on both Saturday and Sunday for the Wild Card round. That would mean a 10 am start or 11 am start local time in a pacific or mountain time zone city.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Donnie Shell, Mel Blount and Mike Wagner would like a word with you.

Not to mention Rod Woodson and Jack Butler.

I said of my lifetime, so no '70s. I was alive when Woodson was a Steeler, but too young to remember really.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

In the 90s they had a great secondary of Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Darren Perry and I’m blanking on the other corner but he was decent

It was David Johnson for a few years and then Willie Williams?

Can’t remember exactly, but that’s what is popping in my mind.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I said of my lifetime, so no '70s. I was alive when Woodson was a Steeler, but too young to remember really.

Woodson was a Hall of Fame defensive back. Just consistently great.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Woodson was a Hall of Fame defensive back. Just consistently great.

He was one of the best blitzers off the corner in NFL history as well. He made tons of game changing plays doing that almost to perfection.

He was also a pro bowl kick/punt returner.

 

[T1K]

Absolutely. Look at how DJ was being used. Tomlin isn't a fan of JUJU and Chase.

How have you come to that conclusion?