GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Apparently we need another one....

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Indeed and that works for you and more power to you. But there are other thoughts about winning and losing that are also held by good fans.

It’s a two way street though I hope you know.

However, me disagreeing with someone doesn’t have anything to do with my thoughts about if they are good fans or not.

I don’t care if someone is a good fan or a bad fan -that isn’t something I spend much time concerning myself over.

If someone is happy watching them stay mediocre and thinks things will get better that way, cool.

Me seeing that as backwards thinking has no bearing on someone being a good or bad fan.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If someone is happy watching them stay mediocre and thinks things will get better that way, cool.

Me seeing that as backwards thinking has no bearing on someone being a good or bad fan.

Dude…

Have a nice day.

 

[pistolpete11]

If they see a guy they really believe in, think he's a nigh cert to be a to 10 starter in this league, then yeah they should do it. But - if they have the slightest doubt - if it's merely like rather than love - I don't think they should do it. Nevermind the chance of picking higher, or next year supposedly being better - this side has too many holes to be a cool landing spot for a kid. Send him out there and he's probably going to bust. If the plan is have him sit for a year, why not just make the rest of the team better now and select the QB later?

And to the point I was trying to make on here the other day, your best chances of winning the Super Bowl are when you have your QB on his rookie deal. Once you start having to pay that guy $25M+, you have to make cuts in other areas. Drafting 'the QB of the future' this year would essentially be burning a year of his rookie contract because they have too many other holes to actually compete next year.

Of course, that only goes far. To your point, if the next Joe Burrow was available, you've got to take him. But by all accounts, that guy doesn't exist this year let alone at #20.

 

[T1K]

And to the point I was trying to make on here the other day, your best chances of winning the Super Bowl are when you have your QB on his rookie deal. Once you start having to pay that guy $25M+, you have to make cuts in other areas. Drafting 'the QB of the future' this year would essentially be burning a year of his rookie contract because they have too many other holes to actually compete next year.

Of course, that only goes far. To your point, if the next Joe Burrow was available, you've got to take him. But by all accounts, that guy doesn't exist this year let alone at #20.

If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs, they all have elite QBs with the exception of SF (drafted a rookie high, not even the starter yet) and TEN who bought low on Tannehill via trade (replaced their former #2 pick). Drafting a QB is a 2-3 year investment. I don’t have an issue taking one this or next year, but they need to provide adequate time to see that investment through. I think worrying about “burning” a year of their rookie QB contract shouldn’t really be a consideration as long as they are confident in their selection.

As far as this being a “down year” for the rookie QB class, I don’t really buy that. Projections for QBs are usually wrong. I think the situation the player is going into matters a lot more.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Dude…

Have a nice day.

You to, cuz…

 

[pistolpete11]

If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs, they all have elite QBs with the exception of SF (drafted a rookie high, not even the starter yet) and TEN who bought low on Tannehill via trade (replaced their former #2 pick). Drafting a QB is a 2-3 year investment. I don’t have an issue taking one this or next year, but they need to provide adequate time to see that investment through. I think worrying about “burning” a year of their rookie QB contract shouldn’t really be a consideration as long as they are confident in their selection.

As far as this being a “down year” for the rookie QB class, I don’t really buy that. Projections for QBs are usually wrong. I think the situation the player is going into matters a lot more.

Of course you need a good QB. That's not the point. I just think when you look at the SB winners, their QB's tend to be young guys on their rookie contracts or at least unproven enough that they haven't really cashed in yet (Mahomes, Foles/Wentz, Wilson, Flacco, Rodgers, Brees, Ben) or old guys taking way under market value (Brady, Manning). Once they start getting big contracts, most of them never even make it back to the Super Bowl.

It's not a rule written in stone or anything, but QB's get paid a lot of money. So when you can get a good one and have him for cheap, it's a major advantage and you want that advantage to last as long as possible. The Steelers have too many holes to fill in a year or maybe even 2, so unless you really like the guy, I'd wait.

You're right they are wrong about QB prospects, and prospects in general really, all the time....but they are right about them a lot, too. I think a lot of the overrating comes when there aren't many good ones and the 'top' guys just look good in comparison.

 

[T1K]

Of course you need a good QB. That's not the point. I just think when you look at the SB winners, their QB's tend to be young guys on their rookie contracts or at least unproven enough that they haven't really cashed in yet (Mahomes, Foles/Wentz, Wilson, Flacco, Rodgers, Brees, Ben) or old guys taking way under market value (Brady, Manning). Once they start getting big contracts, most of them never even make it back to the Super Bowl.

It's not a rule written in stone or anything, but QB's get paid a lot of money. So when you can get a good one and have him for cheap, it's a major advantage and you want that advantage to last as long as possible. The Steelers have too many holes to fill in a year or maybe even 2, so unless you really like the guy, I'd wait.

You're right they are wrong about QB prospects, and prospects in general really, all the time....but they are right about them a lot, too. I think a lot of the overrating comes when there aren't many good ones and the 'top' guys just look good in comparison.

Ideally that rookie QB is the last piece of your team to maximize your window, I fully agree with that. That said, it’s very difficult to acquire an elite QB either via the draft or by other means so if they can get “their guy” they should go for it. The % of cap the QBs that make it to the SB is usually around 12%, it will likely be around that or higher this year. Landing an outlier like Russell Wilson (round 3) or Pat Mahomes (potential GOAT) is a bit of an unrealistic expectation, IMO. Burrow can be included in that list too, but he was a 1st ov pick and we’d really have to regress to land someone of that caliber (kinda contradicts your point too). Josh Allen really didn’t become a SB contender until after he got his big contract. Get the QB first and build around him after is my philosophy. An elite QB can change the outlook of an entire organization, as we’ve seen with Burrow. Justin Herbert is considered to be an elite franchise QB and he hasn’t even gotten into the playoffs yet.

Winning a Super Bowl doesn't require a quarterback on a cheap deal

 

[pistolpete11]

Ideally that rookie QB is the last piece of your team to maximize your window, I fully agree with that.

That's my whole point. So we agree?

Landing an outlier like Russell Wilson (round 3)

When did I say to wait until R3 to draft the next QB? I'm saying wait a year, a year that will probably go badly with the current QB's on the roster, fill out some of the roster first, get a higher pick in 2023, and then draft a QB.

or Pat Mahomes (potential GOAT) is a bit of an unrealistic expectation

When did I say my expectation was to get someone as good as Mahomes? You're just making stuff up to argue against.

Mahomes was 10th overall, by the way. It's not unrealistic to get a franchise QB around there at all. The Steelers got one around there one time. Turned out alright for them if I recall.

It's not unrealistic for the Steelers to finish around there next year if they go with Rudolph or Haskins either.

Burrow can be included in that list too, but he was a 1st ov pick and we’d really have to regress to land someone of that caliber (kinda contradicts your point too).

How does that contradict my point? Burrow only counts $8M (4.2%) towards the cap.

I also literally said if you have a shot at the next Joe Burrow, you take it regardless, but that I don't think that guy exists this year.

Josh Allen really didn’t become a SB contender until after he got his big contract.

Allen's contract doesn't start really kicking in until the year after next. He is only making $10M (5.4%) this year and $16M (7.8%) next year.

Get the QB first and build around him after is my philosophy.

This is literally the opposite of the first sentence in your post. So we don't agree?

Justin Herbert is considered to be an elite franchise QB and he hasn’t even gotten into the playoffs yet.

And?

Winning a Super Bowl doesn't require a quarterback on a cheap deal

I don't think that article says what you think it does nor what the title of it suggests.

Look at the list of Super Bowl winners. It is all rookie deals, unproven deals like Brees (8.7% of cap), 2 of the all-time greats taking under market value, and Eli ( ) That actually proves my point more than anything.

This article's point is that when you get a good QB, you're still better off paying them and hoping for the best than you are starting from scratch and trying to find a good QB. I don't even disagree with that. I just disagree that this the year the Steelers should try to find that QB.