The Pavel Zacha mistake

[Csonked Out]

Really? I haven't noticed.

Paul Coffey
Doug Wilson
Peter Forsberg
Vinnie Damphousse
OEL
Sean Monahan
etc.

We are going that far back lol. I was thinking of Jake virtanen, Brett Connolly, Filatov, and Gagner off of the top of my head. It just seems to be a lot of misses for such a high pick.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I wouldn't write Virtanen off yet. He's still only 22 and already has 10 goals this year.
Gagner has had a very good career in my opinion. Consistently somewhere around .5 to .6 ppg for many years.

Filatov yeah, bust.
Connolly turned out to be a decent bottom 6 player.

 

[Dr Black]

They drafted a guy who is not developing well. If they don't like him, they can let him walk (rather than being "haunted for many years to come"). It's just a draft. You hit some, you miss some.

Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, everyone and their dog knows they should have drafted Barzal, Werenski or Rantanen. Unlike us though, hockey GMs don't work with hindsight.

It's just a draft? No, drafting in the first round, especially the top 10 is a critical component to your team's success. In particular, the 2015 draft was one of the best ever with 8 out of top 10 players picked have turned out to be great picks. With Zacha arguably being the worst player in that top 10 behind Strome. Not to mention 7 or 8 guys picked out of the top 10 who have turned out to be studs. Barzal is the first name that comes to mind in regards to this discussion.

Unlike us though, hockey GM's are professionals getting paid big money to get these picks right. It is their job to spot talent with a high likelihood of success at an NHL level. When they fail, like in the case of Zacha, they are going to receive some criticism.

 

[Tripod]

Pointless in 12 games
Then 4 goals in 3 games
Now pointless in 9 games

Had 5 points in 4 AHL games. Maybe they should demote him for the season and see if his success down there can translate to the NHL with more confidence.

Take advantage of being able to demote him and see if it turns things around for him.

 

[Devils Dominion]

This one really hurts because of how good that draft was - everyone around us got significantly better... Nico, Barzal, Smith... what a young core that would have been to build around, with Hall as the vet. Sigh. I honestly think Zacha may be the worst pick in franchise history, given the circumstances.

You may be right, after Neil Brady, Zacha was a horrid pick.

 

[King Mapes]

Really? I haven't noticed.

Paul Coffey
Doug Wilson
Peter Forsberg
Vinnie Damphousse
OEL
Sean Monahan
etc.

You list only 6 guys and most drafted over 25 years ago. That proves that 6th overall doesn't produce much talent.

 

[Idunkmyoreos]

What a deep draft.

It would be frustrating to have drafted one of the few who aren't already home-run talents.

Well, you could be Boston I suppose.

Here is a perfect example of how to be a smart ass with no context. The comment implies that Boston struck out in this draft, sure you can say they could have had this player or that player but from that 2015 draft the Bruins have had six of their choices on their roster this year. 3 are regulars DeBrusk (2nd line LW); Carlo (2nd pair right defense 20 minutes a game)and Forsbacka-Karlson (3rd line center). Two 21 year old defensemen Zboril and Lauzon, (who are playing big minutes and developing in Providence) were called up and played multiple games quite well when 5 of the top 6 defensemen were out injured. Goalie Daniel Vladar was called up as backup when Rask was out.
And when the Bruins drafted Senyshyn (6'3" and great skater) they said he was a longer-term project- in Providence last year they had him play bottom two lines and concentrate on learning the 200 foot game. This year he is playing top lines and leads them in goals and reports are he is defensively aware and very physical. The Bruins need a 2nd line RW and he is probably going to be this by end of season.
I see a very good chance they drafted seven NHLers in the 2015 draft absolutely no reason to be frustrated.

 

[aufheben]

He was hired almost 2 months before the 2015 NHL draft. I’d hope the GM would have some input on the 6th overall pick.
But he won a cup 9 years ago!

After the interviews at the combine, Castron and Orlando have almost daily conversations as they spend the final few weeks before the draft tweeking the list.

"There comes a point where not everyone has seen everyone play and that's where Gates and I really have to mesh the lists," he explained. "Sometimes Ray or Dan or [Tom Fitzgerald, Devils assistant general manager] only see a guy once and maybe he has a terrible game. They're not going to veto the opinion of a scout that's seen him play multiple times over the course of a season. All they can say is, 'I don't see what you guys see in him.' So, we have to make the decisions for the group. We'll go back to the area scouts and get their opinions, but in the end the decision comes down to Gates and I. We make the list."

Devils general manager Ray Shero concurs: "I'm involved in the discussion, but the decision isn't mine to make when I've never seen them play or have only seen them once. Each of these scouts are here because they're very good at their job and I've got to rely on them and trust their opinion."

Scouts honor: Devils staff readies for NHL Draft in Dallas

 

[Kamiccolo]

Zacha just turned 21 for goodness' sake. So what if they sent him back down to the AHL. I think it might be too early to say it was a huge mistake. He could still have some potential and be a useful player.

The problem might not be the player but it was for sure with the development. As I said before, he should have never been in the NHL that 2nd year and should have gone back to junior, through the AHL, let him grow into his skillset naturally.

Watching him play his confidence is shot and probably irreparably so. It's because he was fed to the wolves.

 

[Jumptheshark]

every team has their bust like this

going into the draft he was projected to be a top 10 pick

 

[Devils090]

He was hired almost 2 months before the 2015 NHL draft. I’d hope the GM would have some input on the 6th overall pick.
But he won a cup 9 years ago!

So in that time he should have hired an entire scouting department and told Lou and Conte, who were still in charge, to beat it?

Learn how organizations work.

 

[McShogun99]

Nothing like winning the draft lottery and picking the consensus number 1 pick only to have him bust. Then trading him 4 years after he was drafted for a 3rd round pick(which was an overpayment).

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Pavel Zacha is not a bust, my goodness

Id imagine most people here over the age of 21 didnt quit where they were at then, so why exactly is Zacha?

 

[PG Canuck]

Could be worse. Could be 1 overall and Yakupov.

Just because someone else has it worse doesn’t mean you should settle and be happy.

 

[aufheben]

In hindsight i think alot of teams wish they had traded down & drafted both Tarasenko & Klingberg.

Part of the reason the Rangers get so much grief for that pick is that Henrik Lundqvist has simply prevented them from ever drafting high, (the years they actually had 1st rounders). At the time, 10th OV was an anomaly for them, and even then it still wasn’t “high”. Central Scouting eventually had McIlrath ranked 17th. Absolutely a reach and a terrible pick, but not something that should be used as an example of a draft catastrophe. You don’t even have to look outside that same 1st round to find picks that ended up being worse and/or handicapping franchises.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The problem might not be the player but it was for sure with the development. As I said before, he should have never been in the NHL that 2nd year and should have gone back to junior, through the AHL, let him grow into his skillset naturally.

Watching him play his confidence is shot and probably irreparably so. It's because he was fed to the wolves.

We will see about that, but I think it is still too early to be giving up on him.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

You list only 6 guys and most drafted over 25 years ago. That proves that 6th overall doesn't produce much talent.

I wasn't trying to give a complete list, just examples of some very good and great players drafted #6 overall.

Recently:

Zadina (TBD)
Cody Glass (TBD)
Matt Tkachuk (Very good NHL player)
Virtanen (slow start but seems to be improving, 10g so far this year)
Monahan (Very good NHL player)
Lindholm (Very good NHL player)
Zibanejad (good)
Brassard (good)
OEL (good)
and so on.

Zacha may end up being a miss, but he's still only 21. Give him time.

If anything the history of the 6th overall pick is very good. Mostly very good NHL players with some greats mixed in.

 

[aufheben]

Pavel Zacha is not a bust, my goodness

Id imagine most people here over the age of 21 didnt quit where they were at then, so why exactly is Zacha?

Professional sports are not common careers.

 

[Canadian Game]

Based on the OP, this thread seems more about Devils drafting and their scouting director. However, the only example of a selection that hasn't lived up to their draft position is Pavel Zacha.

If Zacha is the only example of poor scouting over the years, then maybe your scouting isn't a big issue...

 

[smitty10]

IMO, he was rushed. He should have started this (and last) season in the AHL and played top line minutes. Zacha is young enough that he can still improve and develop.

Look at the improvement Guryanov has shown in the AHL this year. Zacha should be treated in a similar way.

 

[24 others]

It's just a draft? No, drafting in the first round, especially the top 10 is a critical component to your team's success. In particular, the 2015 draft was one of the best ever with 8 out of top 10 players picked have turned out to be great picks. With Zacha arguably being the worst player in that top 10 behind Strome. Not to mention 7 or 8 guys picked out of the top 10 who have turned out to be studs. Barzal is the first name that comes to mind in regards to this discussion.

Unlike us though, hockey GM's are professionals getting paid big money to get these picks right. It is their job to spot talent with a high likelihood of success at an NHL level. When they fail, like in the case of Zacha, they are going to receive some criticism.

Of course they are going to receive criticism, I am not arguing against that. It's the crazy overreactions in this thread ("devils will be haunted for many years to come") that I don't get.

They drafted a first rounder and he is, at the age of 21, playing like a third rounder. Holly molly. Sky is falling!

 

[NyQuil]

Here is a perfect example of how to be a smart ass with no context. The comment implies that Boston struck out in this draft, sure you can say they could have had this player or that player but from that 2015 draft the Bruins have had six of their choices on their roster this year. 3 are regulars DeBrusk (2nd line LW); Carlo (2nd pair right defense 20 minutes a game)and Forsbacka-Karlson (3rd line center). Two 21 year old defensemen Zboril and Lauzon, (who are playing big minutes and developing in Providence) were called up and played multiple games quite well when 5 of the top 6 defensemen were out injured. Goalie Daniel Vladar was called up as backup when Rask was out.

And when the Bruins drafted Senyshyn (6'3" and great skater) they said he was a longer-term project- in Providence last year they had him play bottom two lines and concentrate on learning the 200 foot game. This year he is playing top lines and leads them in goals and reports are he is defensively aware and very physical. The Bruins need a 2nd line RW and he is probably going to be this by end of season.

I see a very good chance they drafted seven NHLers in the 2015 draft absolutely no reason to be frustrated.

Seeing as this was one of the strongest drafts in NHL history, and Boston had THREE picks in the first round, excuse me if I'm not in awe of their draft haul.

The fact that your team is riddled with injuries and has had guys in the line-up so far this season doesn't necessarily mean that they are legitimate NHL stars.

Ottawa has had more young players in their line-up than virtually any team out there this season but it's hardly a result of stunning draft prowess and more a combination of cost-cutting measures and our own dizzying share of injuries. Only time will tell whether any of them will pan out.

Meanwhile, there is no ambiguity about where Boeser, Konecny, Chabot, Barzal, Connor, Aho etc. etc. etc. are going to sit on their team's respective depth charts.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Professional sports are not common careers.

The kids 21 going on 22 with an above average defensive game who is struggling to find his offensive touch on a team spiraling downward

My money is on him panning out as a #2-3C, which isnt a bust IMO. A bust is a Yakupov or players who either arent in the league anymore or who bounce around like a hot potato

Sean Couturier is a comparable in terms of progression at this point

 

[aufheben]

Based on the OP, this thread seems more about Devils drafting and their scouting director. However, the only example of a selection that hasn't lived up to their draft position is Pavel Zacha.

If Zacha is the only example of poor scouting over the years, then maybe your scouting isn't a big issue...

He’s not. The Devils have very, very little to show out of the drafts from 2005-2015.

The kids 21 going on 22 with an above average defensive game who is struggling to find his offensive touch on a team spiraling downward

My money is on him panning out as a #2-3C, which isnt a bust IMO. A bust is a Yakupov or players who either arent in the league anymore or who bounce around like a hot potato

Sean Couturier is a comparable in terms of progression at this point

Everyone knows how old he is.

 

[Pens x]

So in that time he should have hired an entire scouting department and told Lou and Conte, who were still in charge, to beat it?

Learn how organizations work.

No, but it is amazing that Shero has been immune from any criticism for the Devils’ crappy team. He will make an occasional nice trade but don’t expect anything else from the guy.