The Pavel Zacha mistake

[NJ DevLolz]

No, but it is amazing that Shero has been immune from any criticism for the Devils’ crappy team. He will make an occasional nice trade but don’t expect anything else from the guy.

This was the lineup Shero inherited when he took the job 3 years ago. They also had a God awful farm system. Excuse me while i spend the next 20 minutes laughing at your post.

 

[Revelation]

I don't think the Devils draft them if they didn't have Elias, the narrative of an Elias heir was too compelling and hypnotized not just the fans but the management as well. Much like Duchene/Sakic in 2009 though that worked out better.

 

[HBK27]

No, but it is amazing that Shero has been immune from any criticism for the Devils’ crappy team. He will make an occasional nice trade but don’t expect anything else from the guy.

He's a few years into the rebuild and when he came on board Devils had (I believe) the oldest team in the league and an awful prospect pool. Shero has done a good job so far - made a few good trades and a couple (like the Grabner deal) that we would like back. No major UFA signings, though part of that is opportunity (they have to want to come here) and by design (still rebuilding, doesn't want to blow up the cap with bad contracts). The prospect pool has improved considerably and the Devils should be active this free agency period, which should have some really good players.

Whatever you're still bitter about him doing in Pittsburgh has no impact on what he's doing in NJ - totally different situations.

 

[Devilsfan992]

The kids 21 going on 22 with an above average defensive game who is struggling to find his offensive touch on a team spiraling downward

My money is on him panning out as a #2-3C, which isnt a bust IMO. A bust is a Yakupov or players who either arent in the league anymore or who bounce around like a hot potato

Sean Couturier is a comparable in terms of progression at this point

Yakupov was still on the Oilers at 21 and put up better numbers than Zacha.

 

[Devils090]

No, but it is amazing that Shero has been immune from any criticism for the Devils’ crappy team. He will make an occasional nice trade but don’t expect anything else from the guy.

Most of the Devils problems are Lou’s doing(Greene, Schneider, lack of depth)

Shero has messed up(Lovejoy, Grabner) so idk what you think he gets no criticism for

 

[Devilsfan992]

Most of the Devils problems are Lou’s doing(Greene, Schneider, lack of depth)

Shero has messed up(Lovejoy, Grabner) so idk what you think he gets no criticism for

Greene and Schneider aren't great, but that's not the reason for their problems. As others have said, the reasons for their problems are Pavel Zacha, Michael McCleod, skipping the 12th pick and drafting Matteau, John Quenneville, Mattias Tedenby, and Jacob Josefson.

Even Lovejoy isn't a mess up. He hasn't and won't have any impact on the future of this team.

 

[Devils090]

Greene and Schneider aren't great, but that's not the reason for their problems. As others have said, the reasons for their problems are Pavel Zacha, Michael McCleod, skipping the 12th pick and drafting Matteau, John Quenneville, Mattias Tedenby, and Jacob Josefson.

Even Lovejoy isn't a mess up. He hasn't and won't have any impact on the future of this team.

Greene is a big problem considering he’s complete trash, the same with Schneider and his contract.

And the players you listed tie into the lack of depth.

LJ is a mess up considering he’s awful.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Greene is a big problem considering he’s complete trash, the same with Schneider and his contract.

And the players you listed tie into the lack of depth.

LJ is a mess up considering he’s awful.

Yeah they suck, but if they weren't on the team, there would be no impact to the current standing or future outlook. It's not like they are holding back top prospects or putting us in cap hell.

Contracts like those look bad on good teams who are up against the cap. We're not one of those teams.

 

[MartyOwns]

He was hired almost 2 months before the 2015 NHL draft. I’d hope the GM would have some input on the 6th overall pick.
But he won a cup 9 years ago!

i wouldn’t absolve shero from all blame but that’s just crazy. draft picks are not scouted 7 weeks before draft day. the devils had their preferred guys by the time shero was hired; i’m quite certain shero let them pick who they planned to

 

[Absolut]

Is Zacha the deadest dead horse the HF have seen in a while?

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Don't think he's a bust per say, but definitely disappointing relative to draft position. Top 10 pick should produce more than he has.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

Shero didn’t make the pick

So in that time he should have hired an entire scouting department and told Lou and Conte, who were still in charge, to beat it?

Learn how organizations work.

Shero did absolutely make the pick. Please stop the revisionist history. As someone else has pointed out, he was on the job for 2 months already as Devils GM. Lou was demoted to a figurehead role, non functionary role and was really on his way to Toronto in a matter of just a couple of weeks. Conte only gave Shero his own recommendations on several players based on scouting reports. Shero even had a firsthand look at Zacha at the World Championships in Europe a couple of months before.

Shero had 20 years experience as an NHL executive up until that point with 3 different organizations. He wasn't some college intern at the draft table. And he also traded for Palmieri the same day he drafted for Zacha. Lou was obviously not "in charge". So there you go. The Zacha draft was ALL Shero.

Stop blaming everything on Lou and Conte. This is Shero and Castron's FOURTH season already.

Here is an article to prove it:

5. Who'll have the most weight at the draft table?
General manager Ray Shero, of course. He learned a lot attending the world championships. But he will still rely on Conte and the scouting staff.
"What I decide isn't necessarily what we (the Devils) decide," Conte said of their first-round pick. "I would say up until Friday (June 26) at 5 o'clock it's still a moving target. There are so many factors.

"Obviously I have my opinion and I'll give it. I think by Friday at five we'll have a pretty good idea of where we're going. There's never a unanimous agreement on an anything. It's not a heavyweight fight. It's sort of just throwing the options around and getting a good grasp of who'll fit. You keep going over it and over it until you are comfortable."

5 things we know about the Devils' draft preparations

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

And when Taylor Hall had an awesome Hart season and took the team on his back last season and into the playoffs, didn't hear any mention of Lou & Conte, from October through to April for the most part.

That was all because of Ray Shero.

Yet miraculously, now that the NJD are in last place, now we're back to hearing about "Lou & Conte" again.

 

[Rorschach]

Los Angeles calls and raises you two pick positions with Thomas Hickey...

 

[Pens x]

i wouldn’t absolve shero from all blame but that’s just crazy. draft picks are not scouted 7 weeks before draft day. the devils had their preferred guys by the time shero was hired; i’m quite certain shero let them pick who they planned to

He had the sixth overall pick and two months to prepare. I find it hard to believe Shero simply put his hands up and said I don’t need to he involved.

 

[MartyOwns]

He had the sixth overall pick and two months to prepare. I find it hard to believe Shero simply put his hands up and said I don’t need to he involved.

i don’t think you understand a general manager’s role in a draft. shero didn’t spend 2 months researching draft picks. if that was the case, you wouldn’t need scouts. of course he had final approval, but he was counting on his scouts (meaning, lou’s scouts, meaning david conte) to advise him.

maybe shero would’ve drafted him without conte anyway, who knows. but laying this all at shero’s feet is lazy and wrong

 

[Pens x]

i don’t think you understand a general manager’s role in a draft. shero didn’t spend 2 months researching draft picks. if that was the case, you wouldn’t need scouts. of course he had final approval, but he was counting on his scouts (meaning, lou’s scouts, meaning david conte) to advise him.

maybe shero would’ve drafted him without conte anyway, who knows. but laying this all at shero’s feet is lazy and wrong

Shero admitted that he was involved with the Penguins’ first round picks and left the scouts run with the rest of the picks.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

He had the sixth overall pick and two months to prepare. I find it hard to believe Shero simply put his hands up and said I don’t need to he involved.

It's simple: if Zacha was an 80-point player or better, winning the Calder, etc., Shero would have gotten ALL of the credit for drafting him. You know it.

I mean, a person earlier said it was Lou and Conte who are responsible for Zacha. So does that mean Lou and Conte get credit for trading/scouting Kyle Palmieri from Anaheim too? Because that happened on that same draft day.

So which is it?

But because he's been a total disappointment thus far and getting close to being a bust, especially when comparing him to many of his peers in that same draft class, it's being conveniently passed off to Lou & Conte.

But in all fairness. That's how many fans of most teams do it with previous GMs/scouts.

 

[MartyOwns]

Shero admitted that he was involved with the Penguins’ first round picks and left the scouts run with the rest of the picks.

you’re talking about from 10 years ago? do you have a source on that, and was the quote from 2 months after he started?

 

[Cellee]

It's simple: if Zacha was an 80-point player or better, winning the Calder, etc., Shero would have gotten ALL of the credit for drafting him. You know it.

I mean, a person earlier said it was Lou and Conte who are responsible for Zacha. So does that mean Lou and Conte get credit for trading/scouting Kyle Palmieri from Anaheim too? Because that happened on that same draft day.

So which is it?

But because he's been a total disappointment thus far and getting close to being a bust, especially when comparing him to many of his peers in that same draft class, it's being conveniently passed off to Lou & Conte.

But in all fairness. That's how many fans of most teams do it with previous GMs/scouts.

This guy sounds most angry so I believe he is most right.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You really over here making this thread? Gross.

Kid is 21. His offensive numbers are very disappointing, but he is a very good defensive forward as of right now.

Give him a little more time and see where he ends up

 

[Rhodes 81]

Zachas biggest problem is that at some point he watched a black cat break a mirror under a ladder. He makes at least one play every game that's more than 50% to result in a goal, but it just never seems to happen. He works great with Bratt and eventually the pucks will go in. He plays with the skill of a 2nd line center which, historically, is about what you can expect from 6th overall.

 

[135ace]

Greene and Schneider aren't great, but that's not the reason for their problems. As others have said, the reasons for their problems are Pavel Zacha, Michael McCleod, skipping the 12th pick and drafting Matteau, John Quenneville, Mattias Tedenby, and Jacob Josefson.

Even Lovejoy isn't a mess up. He hasn't and won't have any impact on the future of this team.

What are you smoking? Cory is the biggest disaster in the NHL. He loses us more games than the rest of the team put together. And Hynes should be blamed for ever playing the sorry excuse for a human that Schneider is. He can’t even stop a beach ball. Having Cory instead of Horvat is literally infinitely worse than Zacha or anything else. It would have been better to give the pick to the Canucks for free. Cory has been a negative since day one. The dude is a cancer.

 

[1972]

IIRC someone on this board in his draft year did a video scouting series showing how poorly he read the game. His hockey sense was a major red flag.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

What are you smoking? Cory is the biggest disaster in the NHL. He loses us more games than the rest of the team put together. And Hynes should be blamed for ever playing the sorry excuse for a human that Schneider is. He can’t even stop a beach ball. Having Cory instead of Horvat is literally infinitely worse than Zacha or anything else. It would have been better to give the pick to the Canucks for free. Cory has been a negative since day one. The dude is a cancer.

As been has stated ad nauseam in about several threads going on simultaneously, Cory Schneider at that time, coming 1 year after the Devils were in the Cup Finals, as Kovalchuk was still on the team, was exactly what the Devils needed, to make up for the eventual Brodeur retirement and free agent departure of Zach Parise and the loss of the 30+ goals he would have annually contributed.

Schneider had 3 great seasons statistically with the Devils, so I'm not sure what "negative" you're talking about. And had Kovlachuk not retired 2 weeks after the Schneider trade, perhaps they could have easily overcome the lose of Parise and continued on with Schneider & Kovlachuk retooling, rather than the final death-blow of eventually losing BOTH Parise AND Kovalchuk, which kind of negated the Schneider trade to begin with.

But at the time, the last thing the Devils were thinking about in June of 2013 a year removed from losing in Game 6 of the SCF was Bo Horvat's eventual 25+ goal season's 5 1/2 years later, if they even would have selected Bo Horvat to begin with, without using the luxury & benefit of hindsight.