TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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So is Stroman gonna be the next guy we move at sub-optimal value?
If Stroman were a trade candidate (big 'if' here given that the upside of his uneven performance and general seasonal trend in the wrong direction is that it sabotages his leverage in contract negotiations) it'd be a different situation given that his "sub-optimal value" is not necessarily responsible for his poorer performance.
This isn't like hanging onto Donaldson for too long or letting Encarnacion walk or whatever.
Stroman was young enough to be part of the core moving forward and his value lowering has been a slow crawl from ace-calibur to shaky fringe #2.
There was never a flashpoint "right" time to move him, so it's hard to then say that watching him struggle now represents a failure to seize an opportunity
I don’t know if anybody caught Atkins’ interview with Scott Mitchell. He said during that interview that his belief is that pitchers develop later and position players earlier. It makes me think their plan is to rely on bluechip young position player prospects contributing over veterans in those positions, and when the time is right, they’ll spend most of the budget on pitchers that have already matured. It’s a decent plan if they can execute it properly.
Had he moved Donaldson in the offseason people would have been out with pitchforks. Those same people are now wondering why he didn’t. Atkins has made some questionable moves but all gms have. But he’s done a lot more good than bad with what he was left with (aging, overpaid vets past their prime with nothing available on the farm to help).
Question about Merryweather. Atkins stated that the PTBNL did not clear waivers from the 40 man roster, but Merryweather is on the DL and cannot be put through waivers. Or at least I was under the impression that these players could not be put through, and I assume if he was put through someone may have claimed him if he's worth what people are saying he is.
I don't think management ever thought that this would have been the result with both Donaldson and Osuna.
You had a player in Donaldson that had a terrific last two months of the season last year and the betting was him being healthy and continuing to contribute. If the Jays were in an unfavorable positon come trade deadline he would have been shipped out for a greater return. No one saw him having a bum shoulder in the spring and taking a minor calve injury as far as he did. You cannot put this on management.
As for Osuna, this came out of no where. And had he not done what he did. He would have gone on to have another terrific season and could have been dealt this coming off season for a huge haul.
Management isn't to fault here. Sorry I do not buy it. Had the Jays had a full season of JD, and at least 3/4 of a season of Tulo. Not to mention no injuries to both Stroman and Sanchez. We would be in contention for the wildcard. We have 60+ wins with a bandaid lineup and our superstar out all season.
How do you blame management for this?
I don't think management ever thought that this would have been the result with both Donaldson and Osuna.
You had a player in Donaldson that had a terrific last two months of the season last year and the betting was him being healthy and continuing to contribute. If the Jays were in an unfavorable positon come trade deadline he would have been shipped out for a greater return. No one saw him having a bum shoulder in the spring and taking a minor calve injury as far as he did. You cannot put this on management.
As for Osuna, this came out of no where. And had he not done what he did. He would have gone on to have another terrific season and could have been dealt this coming off season for a huge haul.
Management isn't to fault here. Sorry I do not buy it. Had the Jays had a full season of JD, and at least 3/4 of a season of Tulo. Not to mention no injuries to both Stroman and Sanchez. We would be in contention for the wildcard. We have 60+ wins with a bandaid lineup and our superstar out all season.
How do you blame management for this?
I see nothing wrong that this management group has done. Especially when it comes towards the fans. If anything they tried to make us all happy by not blowing it up and went with what any other management team around baseball would have done. Look at Washington, why didn't they trade Harper? Cause they thought they assembled a team that would be competitive. We did the same with Donaldson.
None of this was planned for, and if we were on in their shoes this past off season looking at competition for the Wildcard. We all would have thought we would be in contention not planning for any of this. The 3 teams that were supposed to contend for the 2nd wildcard spot (Angels, Twins and Jays) all didn't pan out.
This isn't Atkins or Shapiro's fault. Nor is it Rogers. You want Rogers to spend and they did. It didn't work out.
We offered more term and money to EE. Wasn't their fault.
We brought back Bautista hoping for a rebound. Didn't work out. Wasn't their fault.
They went after other FA, but were responsible in their offers. They didn't come. Not their fault.
They kept JD around to try and compete. He crumbled like a baby. Not their fault.
Hand injuries to Stroman and Sanchez. Not their fault.
All they have done is try to make the team better with the hands they were dealt. When they acquired the team, and with what has transpired through their tenure with it the way it crumbled.
But here is everyone ranting and raving about AA. When all he did was kill this team. And now he acquired another team in the Braves that has nothing to do with his doing. But hes better then our management?
Guys give your heads a shake.
Being in contention for the wildcard for me is not what you want when the best player in franchise history is about to become a UFA. I'm not going to talk more about the Osuna situation because it's over, but I don't think we handled it as well as we could've. Diaz probably was a better option than Tulo this year anyway, so....
I'm not blaming management for how poor this season has gone, I'm blaming them for not drawing a line in the sand and committing to a plan. If they wanted to go for it this season, I would've been more than happy to get saddled with a few bad contracts in the next couple years (Yes, even if we didn't make the wild card) because I would've at least said "at least you tried". If they wanted to blow it up short-term (anyone available on the ML roster except Stroman, Sanchez, Osuna, Travis) I would've been just as happy.
Unfortunately what I saw was them going for low-risk, high-upside moves that showed they were going to try, but not bet on themselves to win. And again, I actually really liked almost every single one of the moves. I just didn't see any single one of them being the thing that would push us over the edge into competing instead of just going for a wildcard.
And again, I love where we are going into next season and especially 2020; but we wasted a season and wasted our best assets.
They made offers to EE, Cain, Lynn, Cobb etc.. They didn't come. They acquired talent in good trades to try and better the team. Solarte, Diaz, and Grichuk are not reasons we didn't have a good season this year.
Not having Tulo, Donaldson, Stroman, and Sanchez all season are the reason why we didn't contend. Had they been there we would have been all in. Keeping them around proved they were all in.
Sorry but your wrong. If Donaldson and Tulo average what they have in their time with the Jays. And Stroman was Stroman. And Sanchez came back as the ERA champ. Are we singing the blues today?
Ask yourself that before crapping on management.
Wow TB is opening with Stanek again tonight, rofl. And this is a team that is 11 games above. 500 with next to no legit starting pitching. Unbelievable
Nice. He had a tough start to the year, but has been very good post all star break (.306/.360/.856), and it'll be touching that his Mom will get to see him make his MLB debut.
Good for Rowdy. 126 wRC+ and .185 ISO since May 10th. Really turned things around.
Still would like to see some ISO similar to his Double-A season, but there's a good Duda-esque bat there.
I'm not quite sure what this means Nem. Is this supposed to be worded differently?
No one is saying it is. Players are traded under different circumstances (see Osuna). Their relative value under those circumstances would be the governing commonality. In Stroman's case it could be that his attitude (which has supposedly rubbed teammates and management the wrong way) gets him traded more so than his poor performance, and his attitude has been been known for a while.
I wouldn't call it a slow crawl. The guy has been worth 3.4+WAR the last two years. This is more or less out of nowhere in terms of his performance (and largely explicable by injury). Again, if he were traded its seems likely to be less because of his performance while semi-injured than that management just got tired of the off-field headache (Jeff Blair made a comment to this effect a few months ago).
That's fair, but again, no one even said that. You're reading way too much into a tongue-in-cheek, single-line, semi-jokey sentence.