The Oilers WILL take RNH First Overall

[Wheatking]

It's not that it's too simple just that it's not accurate. I dont think there is a stat in which the top 20 is accurate. I could post who I feel are top 20 but obviously there's gonna be people who disagree.

I pointed out four of the nine guys who were traded as players that were not in top 20 defensemen despite their point totals. And there are others that are some may consider top 20 and others may not. My opinion is that it's not harder to aquire one over the other and I've been backing it by disproving your argument that 9 of the top 20 in points has been traded.

Weak argument. How about you name me some #1 centers that have switched teams since the lockout. That would help your case. There's Thornton, Brad Richards and....that's probably it. Forsberg at the end of his career? It's not even close. It's pretty much impossible to get a team to let go of their #1 center. The draft is the only way you can get one.

 

[YNWA14]

I think that Larsson ends up bring Edmonton's pick.

 

[Korpse]

Weak argument. How about you name me some #1 centers that have switched teams since the lockout. That would help your case. There's Thornton, Brad Richards and....that's probably it. Forsberg at the end of his career? It's not even close. It's pretty much impossible to get a team to let go of their #1 center. The draft is the only way you can get one.

I think you've been through this. No? Scott Gomez and Daniel Briere were #1 centers at the time they got moved. Those two just of the top of my head.

 

[Narnia]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that its easier to obtain top flight d-men through trade than it is a top center.

Yeah right. Remember, players want to avoid Edmonton at all costs. The only way for the Oilers to get a top flight defensemen is through the draft. Remember both Pronger and Souray wanted out after one season.

 

[s7ark]

I think that Larsson ends up bring Edmonton's pick.

I thought the same thing a few weeks ago, by now all signs point to our head scout really liking RNH. If he's available when we pick, I expect we'll take him. His talents would compliment Hall nicely.

 

[booyakasha]

Yeah right. Remember, players want to avoid Edmonton at all costs. The only way for the Oilers to get a top flight defensemen is through the draft. Remember both Pronger and Souray wanted out after one season.

for a supposed Oiler fan..you really spread this propaganda every thread you're in.
please, .......Pronger didn't "avoid" Edmonton,in fact, he stated how he liked it there and felt like a "rock star"", he wanted out due to other reasons other than the city, ..likewise Souray.
quit it with that B.S. already.

 

[arsmaster*]

I think you've been through this. No? Scott Gomez and Daniel Briere were #1 centers at the time they got moved. Those two just of the top of my head.

They didnt get moved, they decided to move.

Both left cash strapped franchises for BIG money as UFA's, the similarities just arent there for what you are arguing.

 

[Korpse]

They didnt get moved, they decided to move.

Both left cash strapped franchises for BIG money as UFA's, the similarities just arent there for what you are arguing.

Oh sorry, is moved better for you? You chime in with comments when you have no idea what the argument is about. Traded or signed they were still AQUIRED.

 

[Wheatking]

I think you've been through this. No? Scott Gomez and Daniel Briere were #1 centers at the time they got moved. Those two just of the top of my head.

Just because Gomez got paid like a #1 center, that doesn't mean he actually was one. Especially if you don't want to count Streit, Boyle and Visnovsky as Dmen that have moved.

Even if you want to count them. In 6 years there has been Thornton, Richards, Briere and I guess Forsberg and Gomez. Personally, I only count 3 but maybe you can go to 5.

I'm not saying it's easy to trade for high end defenseman. I'm saying it's nearly impossible to get a #1 center. Like I said before, the odds of Sedin, Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, Duchene, Kopitar, Staal, M. Richards, Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Koivu or Tavares getting traded or hitting free agency in the next 5-10 years are slim to none. You can say Erik Johnson doesn't count as a Dman getting moved because he hasn't reached his potential but I think he should count because if a team has a center prospect that could be a 1st liner, they're an untouchable. You think anyone has a chance at Skinner, Seguin or Couture?

Anyways...I've gotten bored and will give you the last word.

 

[Juxta Position]

Yeah right. Remember, players want to avoid Edmonton at all costs. The only way for the Oilers to get a top flight defensemen is through the draft. Remember both Pronger and Souray wanted out after one season.

souray was in edmonton for 3 seasons before he ever even mentioned a trade outta town. plus he signed there as free agent, wasn't a trade, wasn't a waiver pick up, he chose to play in edmonton. and pronger signed a 5 year deal after being traded to edmonton, it's amazing how people distort the truth to suit their own agendas. the most realistic reason players are reluctant to go to edmonton is probably because they've been mediocre to terrible for the past 17 years, save one stanly cup finals run. if your team wins people will sign there.

back on topic, i personally hope the oilers take RNH, from what i've seen of him this year, the kid has a hockey IQ absolutely off the charts, and the skill set compliment that.

that being said, if they pick larsson or end with him with the 2nd overall pick, i don't think anyone around edmonton should be disappointed. both players have the ability to greatly help the rebuild.

 

[cheesed-off*]

Add Fuel to the fire.

From Terry Jones:



Link:http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/co.../17788906.html

I know this is a pretty generic response and he wouldnt completely shut down the possibility of the Oilers drafting him, but seems like he wouldnt hate going to Edmonton

No, it's not a generic response. Generic is "Well, I'll be happy just to put on an NHL jersey" or some crap like that.

This is a guy that really wants to be here, and to build something here.

I'm sold on him now.

I can look past the Kayan Lahwi physique.

I'm sold on him to the point where I will be disappointed not to take him...

 

[The Angry Teatowel]

Completely unrelated by top work on the Salacious Crumb avatar, cheesed-off! A man after my own heart!

 

[cheesed-off*]

Completely unrelated by top work on the Salacious Crumb avatar, cheesed-off! A man after my own heart!

Ah, thank you - I suppose you can say it is top work, as I spent just over 6 weeks painstakingly creating the digital image from scratch, only to find out soon after I finished that the exact same image has been floating around on the internets for years !! Now you can imagine my infuriation after that... !!

Btw, are you a woman with a man's name, by any chance? Just wondering.

 

[cheesed-off*]

Your posts reek of ignorance.

Your posts reek of halitosis mixed with human feces.

 

[Akonite]

Yeah right. Remember, players want to avoid Edmonton at all costs. The only way for the Oilers to get a top flight defensemen is through the draft. Remember both Pronger and Souray wanted out after one season.

Souray spent three seasons in Edmonton before publicly demanding a trade. It probably felt like one season because of injuries

 

[zeus3007*]

Seriously though 1 goal and 9 points? I dont care what league you play in, if you want to go first overall the stats need to be better than that.

I take RNH and run.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anything, but I am wondering why he has so few points. Anyone watch the SEL? Any way of letting us know what is what with him this year? Is it injuries? No ice time? Adjusting to playing pro hockey? Any insight would be awesome.

 

[The Angry Teatowel]

Ah, thank you - I suppose you can say it is top work, as I spent just over 6 weeks painstakingly creating the digital image from scratch, only to find out soon after I finished that the exact same image has been floating around on the internets for years !! Now you can imagine my infuriation after that... !!

Btw, are you a woman with a man's name, by any chance? Just wondering.

Man with a man's name

 

[jukon]

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anything, but I am wondering why he has so few points. Anyone watch the SEL? Any way of letting us know what is what with him this year? Is it injuries? No ice time? Adjusting to playing pro hockey? Any insight would be awesome.

Rundblad and Erixon are hogging all of the points by defensemen. Larsson is not counted on for being an offensive defenseman.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Weak argument. How about you name me some #1 centers that have switched teams since the lockout. That would help your case. There's Thornton, Brad Richards and....that's probably it. Forsberg at the end of his career? It's not even close. It's pretty much impossible to get a team to let go of their #1 center. The draft is the only way you can get one.

I get from your perspective as an oiler fan, that getting top centers has been an issue, while getting dmen has not. But from an avs perspective, its been the total opposite. Since Blake, we havent had anything close to resembling a #1 dman. On the other hand, we have stastny, duchene, hishon, mueller all whom could play top line center if needed.

As for centers being moved since the lockout, well theres tons. It really depends on what you consider a #1 center. As for your list of dmen, it seems your willing to include top and middle pairing dmen, so i included a list of top 2 centers. Just from the very little searching i did,

Gomez, Forsberg (philly and nashville), Andy Mcdonald, Fedorov, Weight, Fisher, Drury, Briere, Saku Koivu, Ribeiro, Savard, Antropov, Holik, Boyes, Vermette, Cullen, J Jokinen, Thornton, Cammalleri, Stoll and Olli Jokinen.

Nothing spectacular in that list. But i think in the same way its hard to trade for the richards' and duchenes and kopitars, its equally as hard to trade for the Greens, the Doughtys and the Myers'.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Just because Gomez got paid like a #1 center, that doesn't mean he actually was one. Especially if you don't want to count Streit, Boyle and Visnovsky as Dmen that have moved.

Even if you want to count them. In 6 years there has been Thornton, Richards, Briere and I guess Forsberg and Gomez. Personally, I only count 3 but maybe you can go to 5.

I'm not saying it's easy to trade for high end defenseman. I'm saying it's nearly impossible to get a #1 center. Like I said before, the odds of Sedin, Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, Duchene, Kopitar, Staal, M. Richards, Datsyuk, Kesler, Toews, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Koivu or Tavares getting traded or hitting free agency in the next 5-10 years are slim to none. You can say Erik Johnson doesn't count as a Dman getting moved because he hasn't reached his potential but I think he should count because if a team has a center prospect that could be a 1st liner, they're an untouchable. You think anyone has a chance at Skinner, Seguin or Couture?

Anyways...I've gotten bored and will give you the last word.

If youre using this calibre of center, then use the equal calibre of dmen. Try prying Schenn, Subban, Weber, Letang, Doughty, Myers, Pietrangelo, Green, Staal, Chara, Keith, Suter, Hedman.

These players are movable, just like the centers, but no one is willing to give up what it takes. IMHO, its equally as hard to get legitimate #1 centers as it is to get legitimate #1 dmen.

 

[Wheatking]

I get from your perspective as an oiler fan, that getting top centers has been an issue, while getting dmen has not. But from an avs perspective, its been the total opposite. Since Blake, we havent had anything close to resembling a #1 dman. On the other hand, we have stastny, duchene, hishon, mueller all whom could play top line center if needed.

As for centers being moved since the lockout, well theres tons. It really depends on what you consider a #1 center. As for your list of dmen, it seems your willing to include top and middle pairing dmen, so i included a list of top 2 centers. Just from the very little searching i did,

Gomez, Forsberg (philly and nashville), Andy Mcdonald, Fedorov, Weight, Fisher, Drury, Briere, Saku Koivu, Ribeiro, Savard, Antropov, Holik, Boyes, Vermette, Cullen, J Jokinen, Thornton, Cammalleri, Stoll and Olli Jokinen.

Nothing spectacular in that list. But i think in the same way its hard to trade for the richards' and duchenes and kopitars, its equally as hard to trade for the Greens, the Doughtys and the Myers'.

If youre using this calibre of center, then use the equal calibre of dmen. Try prying Schenn, Subban, Weber, Letang, Doughty, Myers, Pietrangelo, Green, Staal, Chara, Keith, Suter, Hedman.

These players are movable, just like the centers, but no one is willing to give up what it takes. IMHO, its equally as hard to get legitimate #1 centers as it is to get legitimate #1 dmen.

You mention that you have Stastny, Duchene and Hishon. You have those three centermen because you drafted them which is kind of my point. I don't really have the same faith in Mueller as you do. Personally, I wouldn't include him.

..and I don't think I listed any middle pairing Dmen so I think your list of centers is much weaker. Good call on Savard though. I forgot about him. I did mention Ehrhoff and Hamhuis but I was kind of going off topic there. The point of that was that the Canucks were able to build a very good group of defensemen in a couple years without getting a star Dman or using a 1st round pick. I really shouldn't have brought it up because it's an entirely different conversation.

A lot of the guys you mentioned were #1 centers at one point but past their prime once moved(Weight, Fedorov, Koivu, Jokinen). I don't think Stoll, Vertmette, Fisher, Cullen and Holik are 1st line players. That's like me saying Horcoff was a #1 center a couple years ago. Antropov and McDonald are good players that can be 1st line players on non-playoff teams but are better suited for the 2nd line...or at least be the weakest player on the 1st line. Cammalleri is on the edge. He's a 60 point player that can hit 80 if he's playing with a star player. I'd probably include him because he hit free agency after his monster season. Rebeiro is the opposite. The Canadiens traded him after a 16 goal/51 point season. They didn't know he would break out.

These players aren't the same as listing Visnovsky, Pronger, Chara, Kaberle, Boyle, JayBo, Streit, Rafalski or either of the Johnsons. Gonchar had 50 points in 62 games last season and then 12 points in 13 playoff games. He may be older but he's a #1 Dman. Phaneuf has been a disappointment but he's still a guy that has been nominated for Norris and is just entering his prime. Again, no offense to Stoll and Fisher but they're not the same caliber players as these guys. If you include them then you should probably include Souray, Pitkanen and Whitney..which I'm not doing.

What are the chances of someone one trading for Suter, Keith, Subban or Myers? Very low but 2 months ago Erik Johnson would have been on that list. Apparently Bogosian was on the block at the deadline. There are also whispers that Weber won't be in Nashville once he's a UFA.

So I'd expand the list to Thornton, Richards, Briere, Cammalleri, Forsberg and Savard.

 

[cheesed-off*]

Man with a man's name

Curse you !

On another note, the Swiss flag is also the exact same symbol used for hockey pool injuries on CBS Sportsline.

So I kind of cringe when I see that flag (5 guys out for the season)...

 

[Grod]

Curse you !

On another note, the Swiss flag is also the exact same symbol used for hockey pool injuries on CBS Sportsline.

So I kind of cringe when I see that flag (5 guys out for the season)...

Pure wit. Glad you see the value in Hopkins response. It was extremely honest and genuine. The same way it was when Hall said it. Not Seguin.

 

[cheesed-off*]

Pure wit. Glad you see the value in Hopkins response. It was extremely honest and genuine. The same way it was when Hall said it. Not Seguin.

Yes, I see from other threads that you are a big supporter of RNH.

Although you should always draft BPA, not for need, it seems in this case the 2 factors are aligned.

Also, consider the following:

• It is very possible to win a Cup with a no-name defense. Many teams have done this.
• It is not possible to win without a top-line center. No team has done this.
• The Oilers have a knack of finding good defensemen.
• The Oilers have not had a 100 pt scorer since Doug Weight.
• Next year's draft has several good defensemen, as I understand.
• Even defensemen drafted very high take a long time to develop.

I think every single factor points to the Oilers drafting RNH.

The only thing that would make me think twice is if people were saying that Larsson was a generational talent. I have not really heard that. B-Mac said the top-3 are a wash...

I just hope they win the lottery and are able to sucker something from Colorado, if Colorado really wants Larsson...

 

[EdAVSfan]

You mention that you have Stastny, Duchene and Hishon. You have those three centermen because you drafted them which is kind of my point. I don't really have the same faith in Mueller as you do. Personally, I wouldn't include him.

..and I don't think I listed any middle pairing Dmen so I think your list of centers is much weaker. Good call on Savard though. I forgot about him. I did mention Ehrhoff and Hamhuis but I was kind of going off topic there. The point of that was that the Canucks were able to build a very good group of defensemen in a couple years without getting a star Dman or using a 1st round pick. I really shouldn't have brought it up because it's an entirely different conversation.

A lot of the guys you mentioned were #1 centers at one point but past their prime once moved(Weight, Fedorov, Koivu, Jokinen). I don't think Stoll, Vertmette, Fisher, Cullen and Holik are 1st line players. That's like me saying Horcoff was a #1 center a couple years ago. Antropov and McDonald are good players that can be 1st line players on non-playoff teams but are better suited for the 2nd line...or at least be the weakest player on the 1st line. Cammalleri is on the edge. He's a 60 point player that can hit 80 if he's playing with a star player. I'd probably include him because he hit free agency after his monster season. Rebeiro is the opposite. The Canadiens traded him after a 16 goal/51 point season. They didn't know he would break out.

These players aren't the same as listing Visnovsky, Pronger, Chara, Kaberle, Boyle, JayBo, Streit, Rafalski or either of the Johnsons. Gonchar had 50 points in 62 games last season and then 12 points in 13 playoff games. He may be older but he's a #1 Dman. Phaneuf has been a disappointment but he's still a guy that has been nominated for Norris and is just entering his prime. Again, no offense to Stoll and Fisher but they're not the same caliber players as these guys. If you include them then you should probably include Souray, Pitkanen and Whitney..which I'm not doing.

What are the chances of someone one trading for Suter, Keith, Subban or Myers? Very low but 2 months ago Erik Johnson would have been on that list. Apparently Bogosian was on the block at the deadline. There are also whispers that Weber won't be in Nashville once he's a UFA.

So I'd expand the list to Thornton, Richards, Briere, Cammalleri, Forsberg and Savard.

Double post