The Offseason Thread (Previously Retool vs Rebuild)

[DJA]

Because otherwise the team has no chance and we might as well fold the franchise because Damnation By The Hockey Gods cannot be overcome.

its a legit question that needs to be raised. I keep raising it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If the bolded is true, then not even the draft can save us. See: PLD.

And/or all the elite talent the team is going to draft in the next couple years.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

And/or all the elite talent the team is going to draft in the next couple years.

Imagine how exciting it will be to see that wave of elite talent come through Columbus on the way to the place they really want to play.

 

[EspenK]

Oh, come on. Look at the post I replied to:

I know you saw it, because you clicked the "Like" button.

Maybe I read it as could be traded not everyone should be traded.

Oh and by the way other than cursing out tanking I'm not sure what your position is on the whole roster issue. I checked the votes didn't see yours; doubled checked all the posts in this thread, again no stated opinion on the matter.

 

[BB88]

Jarmo in his stint as GM has acquired Jones, Panarin, PLD, and Duchene. None wanted to stay with the team for different reasons. Jarmo's got to be thinking, "even if I get good players, they won't want to stay."

Draft them and let them grow together.

The next few drafts have lot of franchise talent(potential) coming.

Add the picks they have this year, add whatever they get from Jones.
This could be a pretty short but rough rebuild.

21 draft, build the prospect pool up
22 draft a franchise prospect
23 draft a franchise prospect
24 be a playoff team/contender

The plus in this situation is that Jarmo was a seller this year and already has 3 1st round picks

 

[Viqsi]

Maybe I read it as could be traded not everyone should be traded.

Oh and by the way other than cursing out tanking I'm not sure what your position is on the whole roster issue. I checked the votes didn't see yours; doubled checked all the posts in this thread, again no stated opinion on the matter.

I'd prefer a retool if it can be done, but at this point a whole lot would have to go right for it to be practically feasible.

 

[MissADD]

I think it no coincidence that the only true star blue jackets were able to sign was a guy they drafted. That's why I think building through the draft and getting young prospects is the only way out of this. And unfortunately you have to trade players to do that. That's why I proposed the question of who do you trade and how many of them do you trade.

 

[Fred Glover]

I'd prefer a retool if it can be done, but at this point a whole lot would have to go right for it to be practically feasible.

With the Russians coming over in the next year or so maybe it is a retool? We have goaltending that’s a huge plus
If (and this is pure speculation) top prospects come with a couple or the trades that will happen, maybe it won’t be a rebuilding project by tearing it down to the studs

 

[Viqsi]

I think it no coincidence that the only true star blue jackets were able to sign was a guy they drafted.

Who? Werenski was bridged. PLD forced his way out. Joey lazed his way out. Nash demanded a trade less than two years into his extension. Bjorkstrand and Atkinson are nice but aren't marketed as stars nor are they ever likely to be. Voracek didn't get noticed until after he left.

 

[MissADD]

Who? Werenski was bridged. PLD forced his way out. Joey lazed his way out. Nash demanded a trade less than two years into his extension. Bjorkstrand and Atkinson are nice but aren't marketed as stars nor are they ever likely to be. Voracek didn't get noticed until after he left.

I said sign, not sign and stay. Nash did sign an extension. He wanted to be here, he just didn't want to go thought another rebuild, which is perfectly acceptable. Jones isn't even willing to see what happens in the off season, which is also "fine." My point is no stars have signed as UFAs, the only star to sign his big contract was Nash, a guy the team drafted. Yes he wanted out, but his still signed his big extension here. Him wanting out doesn't change that.

 

[Viqsi]

I said sign, not sign and stay.

PLD did the same thing even more recently and yet I would not hold him up as an example of team loyalty.

 

[majormajor]

With the Russians coming over in the next year or so maybe it is a retool? We have goaltending that’s a huge plus
If (and this is pure speculation) top prospects come with a couple or the trades that will happen, maybe it won’t be a rebuilding project by tearing it down to the studs

I'm thinking that if we're relying on the Russians to save us then that is a rebuild. They're good players but there's no Kaprizov-type franchise savior among them.

The only alternative to rebuild is to trade Jones for current value - e.g. Marner, Eichel, etc... and pay up for big upgrades in UFA and trade. I've posted something like this before, but it's pretty relevant here:

Miller/Laine - Eichel - Atkinson
Jenner - Danault - Bjorkstrand
Nyquist - Roslovic - Bemstrom
Foudy - Texier - Robinson

Werenski - Schmidt/Hamilton
Gavrikov - Peeke
Lehtonen - Kukan

Elvis
Kiv

 

[majormajor]

PLD did the same thing even more recently and yet I would not hold him up as an example of team loyalty.

Alright, now you're just being difficult on purpose.

Rick Nash actually intended on staying with the Jackets forever when he signed his big UFA deal. The fact that a rebuild two years later sent him packing doesn't put him on the level of PLD, who only signed a deal as a means of facilitating a trade out of town.

 

[Viqsi]

Alright, now you're just being difficult on purpose.

Rick Nash actually intended on staying with the Jackets forever when he signed his big UFA deal. The fact that a rebuild two years later sent him packing doesn't put him on the level of PLD, who only signed a deal as a means of facilitating a trade out of town.

No it doesn't, but it also doesn't make for a good argument as to why Drafting Is The Only Possible Path either.

 

[CBJx614]

I reiterate: f*** tanking. Do that and the team might as well be folded. I've explained why this is bad half a billion times and yet people still keep clinging to it as though it's a solution rather than a suicide pact.

Exactly, there is no way that Jarmo is going to blow this roster up. There is still a good corps to build upon. If Jones and Jarmo have spoken than I would imagine he's having a similar dialogue with Werenski about his next deal and what his intentions are. If Z extends you already have top line level wingers in Bjorkstrand and Laine. See what Roslovic is truly capable of, let Domi try to get back to being a 70pt player( it is a future defining contract year for him) and then make more decisions next deadline, if this team isn't competitive next year, then you sell off some more.

But there's no way I would trade Laine or Domi before the next deadline, they need a rebound season and they are both in contact years. Of course you listen to any offers, but barring someone paying 30-40 goal prices for Laine I'm holding on to him and betting on the kid to get back to form.
Domi I'm less sure of, I just don't think his market is very big. Kinda like Duclair, he's moved around a bit already.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm not talking about tanking, I am talking about asset management. It it has become apparent that no star wants to come to Columbus, or stay in Columbus. So are only way to build aw team is through the draft and acquiring prospects.

If you truly believe that, then whats the point in continuing to spin your wheels? Sell and move the franchise if they're unable or unwilling to keep their talent. Because even if we did build through the draft and developed a star, by your own statement, he'd just walk away when he could. That's not healthy for the franchise or the NHL. It's a waste of time.

Now I don't agree with it. I think there's something wrong in the organization that is turning players away. It's different in the case of Panarin or Duchene, who wanted to play in a big market, but for the Bobrovsky's, Anderson's, PLD's, and now Jones something is amiss.

 

[Viqsi]

If you truly believe that, then whats the point in continuing to spin your wheels? Sell and move the franchise if they're unable or unwilling to keep their talent. Because even if we did build through the draft and developed a star, by your own statement, he'd just walk away when he could. That's not healthy for the franchise or the NHL. It's a waste of time.

Now I don't agree with it. I think there's something wrong in the organization that is turning players away. It's different in the case of Panarin, who wanted to play in a big market, but for the Bobrovsky's, Anderson's, PLD's, and now Jones something is amiss.

This. I don't attempt to explain the phenomenon; I just don't think it's helpful or productive to use such concepts as the basis for making planning decisions. I'm feeling it too, that's for damn sure (just look at several of my posts last night), but that doesn't mean we act as though our despair-driven perspectives are a sober basis for next steps.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This. I don't attempt to explain the phenomenon; I just don't think it's helpful or productive to use such concepts as the basis for making planning decisions.

No other pro franchise in the state has this issue.

The lowly Browns have become SB contenders due to good drafts and big FA signings (Conklin, Hooper, Johnson). They've traded for big ticket players. And you don't hear many players NOT wanting to be a Brown right now.

The Bengals have been big spenders in FA the past two seasons and are now trying to build through both draft and UFA. They've got players wanting to play there.

The Crew have been an MLS powerhouse for years, and while they're not signing the best of the best players globally (as they're in the premier league) they're still able to keep good MLS players.

The Indians and Reds play in the worst league possible for building teams as a small market and they've still had opportunities to build and keep their own stars throughout the years. Granted, they haven't kept ALL of them, but that's just the nature of baseball in their salary structure. They've still kept a decent chunk of them when they've had them, especially Cleveland.

Something is wrong in the organization. It stems from the top, because this wasn't an issue with Howson (granted we didn't get many stars) or MacLean (same thing).

 

[Viqsi]

No other pro franchise in the state has this issue.

The lowly Browns have become SB contenders due to good drafts and big FA signings (Conklin, Hooper, Johnson). They've traded for big ticket players. And you don't hear many players NOT wanting to be a Brown right now.

The Bengals have been big spenders in FA the past two seasons and are now trying to build through both draft and UFA. They've got players wanting to play there.

The Crew have been an MLS powerhouse for years, and while they're not signing the best of the best players globally (as they're in the premier league) they're still able to keep good MLS players.

The Indians and Reds play in the worst league possible for building teams as a small market and they've still had opportunities to build and keep their own stars throughout the years. Granted, they haven't kept ALL of them, but that's just the nature of baseball in their salary structure. They've still kept a decent chunk of them when they've had them, especially Cleveland.

Something is wrong in the organization. It stems from the top, because this wasn't an issue with Howson (granted we didn't get many stars) or MacLean (same thing).

Every single one of those teams have past winning and traditions to fall back on.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Every single one of those teams have past winning and traditions to fall back on.

I'm not one to believe that winning traditions matters to current day players unless they grew up a fan of that team. Like, I don't think Artemi Panarin went to the Rangers because of him loving Mark Messier or something. It might mean a little more to teams like Montreal or the Dallas Cowboys who literally live and breathe their history.

Traditions are like a cool little add-on bonus.

 

[majormajor]

No other pro franchise in the state has this issue.

The lowly Browns have become SB contenders due to good drafts and big FA signings (Conklin, Hooper, Johnson). They've traded for big ticket players. And you don't hear many players NOT wanting to be a Brown right now.

The Bengals have been big spenders in FA the past two seasons and are now trying to build through both draft and UFA. They've got players wanting to play there.

The Crew have been an MLS powerhouse for years, and while they're not signing the best of the best players globally (as they're in the premier league) they're still able to keep good MLS players.

The Indians and Reds play in the worst league possible for building teams as a small market and they've still had opportunities to build and keep their own stars throughout the years. Granted, they haven't kept ALL of them, but that's just the nature of baseball in their salary structure. They've still kept a decent chunk of them when they've had them, especially Cleveland.

Something is wrong in the organization. It stems from the top, because this wasn't an issue with Howson (granted we didn't get many stars) or MacLean (same thing).

This is what it looks like when you're trying to do science with like a sample size of three.

Panarin wanted to be a Ranger. PLD is unknown. Seth doesn't want to get stuck in a rebuild.

High end players not wanting to extend long term with a losing club is nothing new around the NHL, we see this every year. Yes it's part of very worrying trend in Columbus, but it doesn't require some explanation specific to Columbus. The team is bad. What do you expect to happen to your impending UFAs?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This is what it looks like when you're trying to do science with like a sample size of three.

Panarin wanted to be a Ranger. PLD is unknown. Seth doesn't want to get stuck in a rebuild.

High end players not wanting to extend long term with a losing club is nothing new around the NHL, we see this every year. Yes it's part of very worrying trend in Columbus, but it doesn't require some explanation specific to Columbus. The team is bad. What do you expect to happen to your impending UFAs?

Weve never seen it like this.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

No other pro franchise in the state has this issue.

The lowly Browns have become SB contenders due to good drafts and big FA signings (Conklin, Hooper, Johnson). They've traded for big ticket players. And you don't hear many players NOT wanting to be a Brown right now.

The Bengals have been big spenders in FA the past two seasons and are now trying to build through both draft and UFA. They've got players wanting to play there.

The Crew have been an MLS powerhouse for years, and while they're not signing the best of the best players globally (as they're in the premier league) they're still able to keep good MLS players.

The Indians and Reds play in the worst league possible for building teams as a small market and they've still had opportunities to build and keep their own stars throughout the years. Granted, they haven't kept ALL of them, but that's just the nature of baseball in their salary structure. They've still kept a decent chunk of them when they've had them, especially Cleveland.

Something is wrong in the organization. It stems from the top, because this wasn't an issue with Howson (granted we didn't get many stars) or MacLean (same thing).

Columbus has almost nothing to sell a player without ties to Ohio and the current NHL free agency system allows you to move pretty quickly. It is a bad combo to allow Columbus to ever change its impression on players. To me, you need to find a coach with a system that players just love to play if such a guy exists and hope loyalty to him becomes the thing that makes it the place to be.

 

[majormajor]

Weve never seen it like this.

Around the league?

Didn't Ottawa just lose Hoffman, Karlsson, Duchene, and Stone within a year?

Do you want more examples?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Around the league?

Didn't Ottawa just lose Hoffman, Karlsson, Duchene, and Stone within a year?

Do you want more examples?

Okay I’ll give you Ottawa. What else?