The Official Prudential Center, Surrounding Area and Season Ticket Thread

[Devils Dominion]

How are the Yankees sales going again? Oh, right... they actually hired sales people for the first time, basically ever, recently, right? And NFL attendance has been down in recent years too, in fact. The FCC just overturned forced blackouts I read...

Alienating a fickle, argumentative, never impressed, rarely spending fan base is not an option for the new ownership, because they *have to* do that to attract a different kind of fan. Fans that actually spend money on real (not Chinese $40 knock off) merchandise, tickets (not discount code, broker eating games on Stubhub) and sell premium seats, entertainment, and most critically, luxury suites.

They 100% can, and I will even argue, should push certain types of old fans out.

I agree again with your some of your points to an extent.
I even posted a few weeks ago that I hoped that there would be very few tix available on second source sites like stubhub, so the "give me a free handout" fans would be on the outside looking in-all with a good team on the ice so the building would be full.

On that note, what is your take on the sudden availability of over 2k tickets per game on Stubhub?
Who is listing those tickets?
Brokers, STHers, the Devils themselves?

 

[Scott04]

How are the Yankees sales going again? Oh, right... they actually hired sales people for the first time, basically ever, recently, right? And NFL attendance has been down in recent years too, in fact. The FCC just overturned forced blackouts I read...

Alienating a fickle, argumentative, never impressed, rarely spending fan base is not an option for the new ownership, because they *have to* do that to attract a different kind of fan. Fans that actually spend money on real (not Chinese $40 knock off) merchandise, tickets (not discount code, broker eating games on Stubhub) and sell premium seats, entertainment, and most critically, luxury suites.

They 100% can, and I will even argue, should push certain types of old fans out.

I understand being against change and liking the "classic" way of how things may have been. But when were the Devils in a position where they were consistently selling out/on the verge of selling out the majority of games in a season for a consistent period of time? Pretty much never? Enjoying how things were is nice, but if it hasn't really ever worked before, why stick with the old? I'm sure plenty of the people who complain about alienated fans are the same people who complain that there has never been much of a fan turnout. Vanderbeek related well to the individual fan and pushed for fan-friendly, yes. But it didn't exactly fill the seats the way he did it either.

 

[Cowbell232]

I agree again with your some of your points to an extent.
I even posted a few weeks ago that I hoped that there would be very few tix available on second source sites like stubhub, so the "give me a free handout" fans would be on the outside looking in-all with a good team on the ice so the building would be full.

On that note, what is your take on the sudden availability of over 2k tickets per game on Stubhub?
Who is listing those tickets?
Brokers, STHers, the Devils themselves?

Well, there's a lot of moving parts to this. All STHers get their tickets at the same time, right? So technically they couldn't really list them until they had them. I think while the org tried to eliminate as much brokerage houses as they could, it wasn't possible to eliminate every individual broker. I think 2k appearing like that is a sign of the perfect storm, of when STHers (including individual brokers) received their tickets.

I imagine that a fair number of fans that can't make all 41 games but want the benefits put a fair number of tickets up in hopes of selling some and going to the rest. I think watching how pricing changes closer to the games will answer whether that's true or not, right? (If it $$$ goes down significantly it's brokers, if not, it's fans trying to recoup a couple bucks)

Vanderbeek related well to the individual fan and pushed for fan-friendly, yes. But it didn't exactly fill the seats the way he did it either.

Excellent, excellent point. We can't forget how much we all LOVED JVB when he first bought the team...

 

[BigBlueAndRed]

On that note, what is your take on the sudden availability of over 2k tickets per game on Stubhub?
Who is listing those tickets?
Brokers, STHers, the Devils themselves?

It has to be brokers or the Devils. About half of the listings are in large quantities if you see. 1-7, 1-8, etc (sample taken from the Rangers game):

Can't imagine too many STH with 20 seats.

 

[Scott04]

Can't be the Devils because they would get SO sued for even attempting such a thing (especially doing it in a way that would make it quite obvious). Clearly would be a breach of their deal with Ticketmaster and there would be no way for the Devils to win. I imagine the penalties they'd pay would be beyond ridiculous. Not to mention the issues either they will have with the league or that the league will have with Ticketmaster as I'm sure it's an NHL deal to an extent as well.

Small chance some specific accounts (obviously broker ones) that have upwards of a dozen tickets on their account. The likely scenario is that some brokers bought up tickets in bulk and it's split under multiple accounts/multiple names. They could have 1-10 between 2 or 3 accounts and when they first bought them up, they put them together. Most likely these are the old brokers that haven't been forced out and not exactly new ones.

 

[Colin226]

I also remember Eric saying some older brokers were tough to get away from due to existing contracts/relationships with the team.. The Devils have never promised that all brokers are gone, just that no brokers will be sold to going forward and that they would try to remove as many as possible.. Will be interesting to monitor this for the regular season, however

On the call yesterday, Hugh mentioned that they removed the "48 hour ticket printing window" that was designed to keep STH tickets off StubHub.. It's now something like: every 2 months they make the next 2 month's games available online.. Example being that on November 1st you'd have access to print all November and December tickets, but have to wait until January to access the next 2 month's games

 

[Devils Dominion]

I also remember Eric saying some older brokers were tough to get away from due to existing contracts/relationships with the team.. The Devils have never promised that all brokers are gone, just that no brokers will be sold to going forward and that they would try to remove as many as possible.. Will be interesting to monitor this for the regular season, however

On the call yesterday, Hugh mentioned that they removed the "48 hour ticket printing window" that was designed to keep STH tickets off StubHub.. It's now something like: every 2 months they make the next 2 month's games available online.. Example being that on November 1st you'd have access to print all November and December tickets, but have to wait until January to access the next 2 month's games

I just checked SH, the cutoff game is Feb 9.
Also, $8 tix for Thursday night's game.

I don't see any difference in the number of broker tickets this season compared to the last few seasons.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

All this article did was say "well this isn't complete, but I'm sure it will be by opening night". Click bait. People are seriously just finding things to be annoyed at. It's infuriating. They're rebranding EVERYTHING. September was ridiculously busy for the arena. They were never going to have it done by Sunday. Outside of Devils games, there are 3 events between now and the home opener. There's a reason for that. You're all making these grand assumptions when something isn't even finished.

It's the internet. Everything is click bait. Lol.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well, there's a lot of moving parts to this. All STHers get their tickets at the same time, right? So technically they couldn't really list them until they had them. I think while the org tried to eliminate as much brokerage houses as they could, it wasn't possible to eliminate every individual broker. I think 2k appearing like that is a sign of the perfect storm, of when STHers (including individual brokers) received their tickets.

I imagine that a fair number of fans that can't make all 41 games but want the benefits put a fair number of tickets up in hopes of selling some and going to the rest. I think watching how pricing changes closer to the games will answer whether that's true or not, right? (If it $$$ goes down significantly it's brokers, if not, it's fans trying to recoup a couple bucks)

You can't list them on TE (though some were for whatever reason) but you can list them on StubHub at any point though they'll be hard tickets and you pretty much have to go with their latest in-hand date.

It's not the 2000 tickets that are eye-popping (though in past years I think they were on the market much earlier, I don't remember ever seeing >50 tickets for every game for so long), it's the fact that they've periodically popped online and then go back offline. STH's can't all be changing their mind that much. Even brokers don't really change their minds once they list tickets. So why are the lists going from visible to invisible and back to visible again?

Can't be the Devils because they would get SO sued for even attempting such a thing (especially doing it in a way that would make it quite obvious). Clearly would be a breach of their deal with Ticketmaster and there would be no way for the Devils to win. I imagine the penalties they'd pay would be beyond ridiculous. Not to mention the issues either they will have with the league or that the league will have with Ticketmaster as I'm sure it's an NHL deal to an extent as well.

That may all be true but how would anyone be able to prove the Devils are listing tickets on the secondary market?

 

[DatBoyJPP]

If the Devils were putting tickets on stubhub themselves their entire sales force that survives off the commission lost from those tickets would quit. No way the devils are using stubhub

 

[BigBlueAndRed]

The Devils have never promised that all brokers are gone, just that no brokers will be sold to going forward and that they would try to remove as many as possible.

Since they pay a company to monitor Stubhub, and all contracts now say "If you sell over 50% of your tickets, your accounts will be cancelled", this monitoring company should've already put together a report showing all these seats mass listed over multiple games.

I just wonder if they'll follow through on the threat.

 

[Scott04]

That may all be true but how would anyone be able to prove the Devils are listing tickets on the secondary market?

Since it would obviously be discussed in the midst of a legal matter... the team would be forced to show their records on where those seats were allocated, as their claim would be that those were owned by independent ticketholders and not the team. It is clearly noted in their system what tickets are attributed into which accounts and what date they were inputted in that account (in case there was an attempted cover up by allocating them to accounts, pre-existing or newly created, to cover their ass). No ticket for any game or ticket holder event that the team has any hand in goes forward without being done within this system. And everything is clearly traceable and marked with the date/time/user who input the tickets. I haven't used the ticketmaster archtics software in 4 years and I could probably pull this up in 30 seconds, so it's not like its something buried deep in the software. No need to know who listed it on stubhub when you can check it at the source of who owned the tickets to begin with. No way they could hide any of this.

Since they pay a company to monitor Stubhub, and all contracts now say "If you sell over 50% of your tickets, your accounts will be cancelled", this monitoring company should've already put together a report showing all these seats mass listed over multiple games.

I just wonder if they'll follow through on the threat.

Not sure if they still do that or not (with the outside company), but regardless... I'm sure there either are or were exceptions. If they wanted to kick out every single broker, they could have long ago without waiting for the 50% rule to apply to them in that given season. They probably got rid of the overwhelming majority, but they definitely kept some, as does every team.

 

[NJDevs26]

They clearly didn't get rid of 'that' many brokers, unless there were 3000 tickets listed in prior seasons instead of 2000 lol

 

[Devils Dominion]

They clearly didn't get rid of 'that' many brokers, unless there were 3000 tickets listed in prior seasons instead of 2000 lol

The number of tickets listed on Stubhub this season is about the same as last season.

They did not get rid of the brokers, but they did infuriate diehard fans by classifying them as brokers.

So apparently, they pushed out some diehard fans who love the team and did nothing about the brokers from places like Florida.

 

[njdevil26]

If the Devils were putting tickets on stubhub themselves their entire sales force that survives off the commission lost from those tickets would quit. No way the devils are using stubhub

I understand you're point... but who is putting up entire rows of tickets? Those are sections/rows that were entirely empty last season during midweek games against crap opponents. I feel like the Devils are pushing balcony tickets through the sales department and trying to dump uppers on Stubhub themselves.

 

[CKPLAYA]

How are the Yankees sales going again? Oh, right... they actually hired sales people for the first time, basically ever, recently, right? And NFL attendance has been down in recent years too, in fact. The FCC just overturned forced blackouts I read...

Alienating a fickle, argumentative, never impressed, rarely spending fan base is not an option for the new ownership, because they *have to* do that to attract a different kind of fan. Fans that actually spend money on real (not Chinese $40 knock off) merchandise, tickets (not discount code, broker eating games on Stubhub) and sell premium seats, entertainment, and most critically, luxury suites.

They 100% can, and I will even argue, should push certain types of old fans out.

I agree in general about pushing out certain fans but they need to understand they created those fans and in creating those fans pushed people like myself away. I was a $10k plus per year STH. When they started giving tickets away it was a slap in the face. I discussed it dozens of times with whoever would listen at the Devils right up to the VP. The answers they gave made absolutely no sense and defied not only financial sense but common sense. So what did I do? I left. Now they call me three times a week and offer the world. I asked about papering the crowd and they adamantly denied they ever did that so that's not going to happen. I then asked about secondary market sales and they told me they don't list them. I asked about the the large quantities in sequence that have historically appeared and they told me those were brokers that they no longer sold to them this year. So much for that.

 

[Cowbell232]

I agree in general about pushing out certain fans but they need to understand they created those fans and in creating those fans pushed people like myself away. I was a $10k plus per year STH. When they started giving tickets away it was a slap in the face. I discussed it dozens of times with whoever would listen at the Devils right up to the VP. The answers they gave made absolutely no sense and defied not only financial sense but common sense. So what did I do? I left. Now they call me three times a week and offer the world. I asked about papering the crowd and they adamantly denied they ever did that so that's not going to happen. I then asked about secondary market sales and they told me they don't list them. I asked about the the large quantities in sequence that have historically appeared and they told me those were brokers that they no longer sold to them this year. So much for that.

You are the exact kind of fan I'm talking about... It's not worth $10K for the org to have you to run up the chain to the VP about their business practices and brokers that they can't really do anything about when they need $100K customers buying suites with food & bev minimums every event to become cash flow positive.

Nothing personal here, and I agree with your sentiment that it isn't worth you spending a dime on the team for the way you've been treated, but nothing for nothing, you aren't helping the team's bottom line either.

For the record, I haven't bought a Devils ticket or merchandise really in years myself and am just as critical of their practices as any fan can be...

 

[bluepuck22]

There are plenty of brokers still listing tickets for Devil games. Many STH and brokers are under contract, so for many things have stayed the same.

StubHUB - The Philadelphia Sixers use StubHub as a ticket reseller. Hopefully the Devils will move to this model also.

StubHub - Lowered their fees to 10% for sellers (from 15%) Brokers get an even better deal. StubHub also makes it harder for 3rd part companies, to monitor what a ticket is sold for. You can see what is listed, but the sell price is now private to StubHUb - should have been done long ago. StubHub is making changes to combat other growing sites and TM.

Devils were idiots last year to "punish" STH's who listed on StubHUB, yet they openly encouraged TM and sold to brokers. IF the Devils are going to promote re-listing their tickets on TM and continue to sell to brokers, then leave the STH's alone.

 

[Cowbell232]

I understand you're point... but who is putting up entire rows of tickets? Those are sections/rows that were entirely empty last season during midweek games against crap opponents. I feel like the Devils are pushing balcony tickets through the sales department and trying to dump uppers on Stubhub themselves.

They are not listing on Stubhub, there's no way for them to do it without it blowing up in their face something crazy.

Anyone with a couple credit cards and a bit of a risk taker can buy a bunch of seats and then lump them together on Stubhub.

Also, you guys think about Mites on Ice or group sales? Mites on Ice requires a local team to a large group of tickets, maybe they're trying to sell the ones that parents don't want? Of course, that would be a very limited number of the groups you see, but I'm just throwing it out there as plausible.

 

[CKPLAYA]

You are the exact kind of fan I'm talking about... It's not worth $10K for the org to have you to run up the chain to the VP about their business practices and brokers that they can't really do anything about when they need $100K customers buying suites with food & bev minimums every event to become cash flow positive.

Nothing personal here, and I agree with your sentiment that it isn't worth you spending a dime on the team for the way you've been treated, but nothing for nothing, you aren't helping the team's bottom line either.

For the record, I haven't bought a Devils ticket or merchandise really in years myself and am just as critical of their practices as any fan can be...

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I am exactly what they are looking for. A STH that spends north of $10k on tickets alone is exactly what they are looking for and need. If I was getting those tickets today I would be spending $15k for my seats. That's why they are calling me and offering the world.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I am exactly what they are looking for. A STH that spends north of $10k on tickets alone is exactly what they are looking for and need. If I was getting those tickets today I would be spending $15k for my seats. That's why they are calling me and offering the world.

This is a good discussion and I see both your & cowbell's points.

I'm with you on this one though, you are exactly what the Devils need, and many more of you.
Real fans of the team that take pride of ticket ownership and loyalty to the logo.

It pains me to see what they did to some diehard fans last year with labeling them as brokers, which was not only horribly unfair and wrong, but also highly hypocritical.

 

[Devils Dominion]

There are plenty of brokers still listing tickets for Devil games. Many STH and brokers are under contract, so for many things have stayed the same.

StubHUB - The Philadelphia Sixers use StubHub as a ticket reseller. Hopefully the Devils will move to this model also.

StubHub - Lowered their fees to 10% for sellers (from 15%) Brokers get an even better deal. StubHub also makes it harder for 3rd part companies, to monitor what a ticket is sold for. You can see what is listed, but the sell price is now private to StubHUb - should have been done long ago. StubHub is making changes to combat other growing sites and TM.

Devils were idiots last year to "punish" STH's who listed on StubHUB, yet they openly encouraged TM and sold to brokers. IF the Devils are going to promote re-listing their tickets on TM and continue to sell to brokers, then leave the STH's alone.[/QUOTE]



You hit the nail on the head bluepuck!

They should do everyting in their power to apologize and get those fans back into the fold.

 

[Cowbell232]

Not sure I understand what you are saying but I am exactly what they are looking for. A STH that spends north of $10k on tickets alone is exactly what they are looking for and need. If I was getting those tickets today I would be spending $15k for my seats. That's why they are calling me and offering the world.

We have no idea how much the Devils spend per year, but let's say the with a $60M cap, let's just round off to a nice $75M a year. It's probably more.

Now, let's assume you spend $15K on tickets (forget tax, etc.) and then let's even say another $10K on food/merch which really is a lot less in their pockets, but that's $25K. So $25K out of $75M is nothing compared to a suite that spends $200K plus another $100K on food/bev a year for $300K total... With much higher margins, and different implications for revenue sharing, league fees, and taxes.

 

[Devils Dominion]

We have no idea how much the Devils spend per year, but let's say the with a $60M cap, let's just round off to a nice $75M a year. It's probably more.

Now, let's assume you spend $15K on tickets (forget tax, etc.) and then let's even say another $10K on food/merch which really is a lot less in their pockets, but that's $25K. So $25K out of $75M is nothing compared to a suite that spends $200K plus another $100K on food/bev a year for $300K total... With much higher margins, and different implications for revenue sharing, league fees, and taxes.

The Devils need to work harder at selling suites.

But why should that come at the expense of neglecting to fill the other seats in the rink?

 

[CKPLAYA]

We have no idea how much the Devils spend per year, but let's say the with a $60M cap, let's just round off to a nice $75M a year. It's probably more.

Now, let's assume you spend $15K on tickets (forget tax, etc.) and then let's even say another $10K on food/merch which really is a lot less in their pockets, but that's $25K. So $25K out of $75M is nothing compared to a suite that spends $200K plus another $100K on food/bev a year for $300K total... With much higher margins, and different implications for revenue sharing, league fees, and taxes.

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are wrong. The Devils are extremely interested in STHs that spend 25k a season on their product. That kind of spend would put you in the top 10% of their list. Without a doubt. Trust me. I know this for a fact. Every team in the NHL is looking for STH's that spend that kind of money on tickets and concessions.