The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part IV

[BatherSeason]

When's the last time Dorion spoke to the media?

It was the scripted interview with Mendes.

 

[coladin]

Can't believe some people are still defending the Zibanejad trade

And we don't get out of the first round with Zibanejad in 2017 playoffs. I was not a fan. Great shot, decent skater, good passer, but lacking desire to win anything at this level. Just my opinion. The next time he wins a crucial faceoff or board battle with the goalie pulled let me know!

At some point, the whole " He is only 19, he is only 20, he is only 22, etc..." is true, but you can't pay this guy 5M+ on potential, and definitely not in this market. He was still as Zibby as ever until this year, which coincidentally is a year where the organization has committed to a rebuild. No pressure which suits his game.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

And we don't get out of the first round with Zibanejad in 2017 playoffs. I was not a fan. Great shot, decent skater, good passer, but lacking desire to win anything at this level. Just my opinion. The next team he wins a crucial faceoff or board battle with the goalie pulled let me know!

How do you determine this?

 

[BondraTime]

Didn't Zibanejad lead the Rangers in playoff scoring that year, including an OT winner?

 

[stempniaksen]

Didn't Zibanejad lead the Rangers in playoff scoring that year, including an OT winner?

I'm sure he did it while looking disinterested though.

 

[Sensung]

How do you determine this?

20/20 biased hindsight.

 

[swiftwin]

When's the last time Dorion spoke to the media?

I think he might be busy with other things right now....

I'd rather he focus on those things than to worry about what people are saying about him online.

 

[DaveMatthew]

And we don't get out of the first round with Zibanejad in 2017 playoffs. I was not a fan. Great shot, decent skater, good passer, but lacking desire to win anything at this level. Just my opinion. The next time he wins a crucial faceoff or board battle with the goalie pulled let me know!

At some point, the whole " He is only 19, he is only 20, he is only 22, etc..." is true, but you can't pay this guy 5M+ on potential, and definitely not in this market. He was still as Zibby as ever until this year, which coincidentally is a year where the organization has committed to a rebuild. No pressure which suits his game.

He was a 50 point center when he was here. Maybe that doesn't live up to the hype of a 5th overall pick, but if you're not willing to pay $5M for a 50 point center, you aren't ever signing or keeping players.

$5M is the going rate for a 50 pt/year player, so even if he only produced like he did in 15/16, it would've been a fair contract.

Now that he's a PPG? It's a big bargain.

If Brady Tkachuk puts up 50 points in each of the next two years, guess what he'll ask for on his next contract? It'll be more than $5M a season.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Defending the Zib Brassard trade is pretty funny at this point... Come on.. how can you defend Dorion and his rudderless guidance of this team ..

 

[coladin]

Didn't Zibanejad lead the Rangers in playoff scoring that year, including an OT winner?

Where did he lead them?

How do you determine this?

He did. 9pts in 12 games. I watched all the games and he was not the player he is today. Just more of the same.

 

[swiftwin]

I'm not sure why people here are debating this.

It was a widely held belief that Brassard was the better player at the time of the trade.

It was also a widely held belief that in 3 or 4 years time, Zib would be the better player.

It was a bad trade in that sense, but that year we were trying to go all in. Brassard was known at the time as "The" playoff guy. It was a gamble. Had we won the cup in any of the years he was here, it would of been a great trade.

If we add context into why this trade was made, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than just looking at the actual trade in a vacuum.

Sens have made a lot of bad deals, but I don't really think this one is all that bad.

Exactly. Brass was fantastic for us in the playoffs. Much better than Zib would have been.

Besides, we recouped a ton when we traded Brassard away. Where would Zib even fit in our current lineup? Would not getting traded have have given him the wakeup call he needed?

You can't play captain hindsight like that. We got what we wanted out of the trade. An experienced player who helped us in our playoff run. We even got a ton of assets back when we moved him. Win-win. We got the best of both worlds.

 

[BondraTime]

Where did he lead them?



He did. 9pts in 12 games. I watched all the games and he was not the player he is today. Just more of the same.

To the 2nd round?

To a series vs. Ottawa where he outscored Brassard 5 points to 1

 

[coladin]

He was a 50 point center when he was here. Maybe that doesn't live up to the hype of a 5th overall pick, but if you're not willing to pay $5M for a 50 point center, you aren't ever signing or keeping players.

$5M is the going rate for a 50 pt/year player, so even if he only produced like he did in 15/16, it would've been a fair contract.

Now that he's a PPG? It's a big bargain.

If Brady Tkachuk puts up 50 points in each of the next two years, guess what he'll ask for on his next contract? It'll be more than $5M a season.

I'm sure you watched the same games as I did. Points are great, but he was frustrating, inconsistent, and you don't have to share my opinion, but he isn't a winner. some guys have "it", and he didn't have it for me.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Exactly. Brass was fantastic for us in the playoffs. Much better than Zib would have been.

Besides, we recouped a ton when we traded Brassard away. Where would Zib even fit in our current lineup? Would not getting traded have have given him the wakeup call he needed?

You can't play captain hindsight like that. We got what we wanted out of the trade. An experienced player who helped us in our playoff run. We even got a ton of assets back when we moved him. Win-win. We got the best of both worlds.

Where would Zib fit? Well he'd be our 2nd line center, and after Monday, our 1st?

 

[coladin]

20/20 biased hindsight.

Is there any other kind?

 

[DaveMatthew]

I'm sure you watched the same games as I did. Points are great, but he was frustrating, inconsistent, and you don't have to share my opinion, but he isn't a winner. some guys have "it", and he didn't have it for me.

He was 22 years old, and played like it.

I'm curious to know what you think of Logan Brown, who's about to turn 21, and is also frustrating and inconsistent. Does he still have potential or should we cut bait?

It's funny, because Colin White is the same age now as Zibanejad was when he was traded, but people look at White as a guy who's part of the future, despite having much less of a pedigree, but Zibanejad was disposable?

 

[swiftwin]

He was 22 years old, and played like it.

I'm curious to know what you think of Logan Brown, who's about to turn 21, and is also frustrating and inconsistent. Does he still have potential or should we cut bait?

If we could trade him for a Brassard2016 caliber player, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

edit: In a vacuum... not assuming our current rebuild/Melnyk financial situation.

 

[coladin]

He was 22 years old, and played like it.

I'm curious to know what you think of Logan Brown, who's about to turn 21, and is also frustrating and inconsistent. Does he still have potential or should we cut bait?

But he was going to need 5M+. I get the age part, but at some point you get stuck with potentially a bad contract paying for expectations and "hoping" he puts it all together.

Love Logan Brown as a prospect. Is looking for 5M next year?

 

[Sensung]

Is there any other kind?

Nope

 

[DaveMatthew]

But he was going to need 5M+. I get the age part, but at some point you get stuck with potentially a bad contract paying for expectations and "hoping" he puts it all together.

Love Logan Brown as a prospect. Is looking for 5M next year?

If he comes in and scores 50 points? Yeah, he'll probably be looking for 5M on his next contract.

Keep in mind that when he was traded, Zibanejad still had a year left at $2.6M.

 

[GrantLemons]

And we don't get out of the first round with Zibanejad in 2017 playoffs. I was not a fan. Great shot, decent skater, good passer, but lacking desire to win anything at this level. Just my opinion. The next time he wins a crucial faceoff or board battle with the goalie pulled let me know!

At some point, the whole " He is only 19, he is only 20, he is only 22, etc..." is true, but you can't pay this guy 5M+ on potential, and definitely not in this market. He was still as Zibby as ever until this year, which coincidentally is a year where the organization has committed to a rebuild. No pressure which suits his game.

Sean Couturier didn't crack 40 points until last year. He's now a PPG centre.

Scheifele didn't hit his stride until about 2 years ago. He's now a PPG centre.

I understand the need to justify the deal, but we shit the bed by not paying Zib. Flyers and Jets had no issue sticking with their guys and paying them, and we chose not to invest in Zib's potential.

Zib scored the OT Golden goal in the WJC for Sweden. You can't tell me he wasn't/isn't a big game player. He had barely scratched the surface of his potential, and we dumped him for a fraction of his value.

 

[coladin]

If he comes in and scores 50 points? Yeah, he'll probably be looking for 5M on his next contract.

Doubt it. But at some point you cannot pay players based on potential, not at that price threshold. I understand a lot of people liked him.

 

[coladin]

Sean Couturier didn't crack 40 points until last year. He's now a PPG centre.

Scheifele didn't hit his stride until about 2 years ago. He's now a PPG centre.

I understand the need to justify the deal, but we **** the bed by not paying Zib. Flyers and Jets had no issue sticking with their guys and paying them, and we chose not to invest in Zib's potential.

Zib scored the OT Golden goal in the WJC for Sweden. You can't tell me he wasn't/isn't a big game player. He had barely scratched the surface of his potential, and we dumped him for a fraction of his value.

Granted on Couturier and Scheifele, but it doesn't always work out.

I did say accomplishing something at this level. I guess Mark Slaney became a big time player? There are so many players, i.e. Curtis Lazar and Co. that simply don't pan out at the NHL level. If Ottawa kept Zibby and in year three, in a meaningless season, he is PPG, are the other two years prior just forgotten?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Doubt it. But at some point you cannot pay players based on potential, not at that price threshold. I understand a lot of people liked him.

Like I said though, $5M is the going rate for 50 point centers. We would not have been paying for potential, we would have been paying the right amount for his rate of production.

Look at Henrique, Backlund, Little, Miller, Hayes, etc.

I think many people will be shocked at Colin White's ask after this season. $5M in today's NHL is not a lot.

If Zibanejad needed a new contract now? It'd be over 6, close to 7.

 

[GrantLemons]

Granted on Couturier and Scheifele, but it doesn't always work out.

I did say accomplishing something at this level. I guess Mark Slaney became a big time player? There are so many players, i.e. Curtis Lazar and Co. that simply don't pan out at the NHL level. If Ottawa kept Zibby and in year three, in a meaningless season, he is PPG, are the other two years prior just forgotten?

Not really going to go any further on this one.

If you think trading Zib, who at the time was a young, still developing 50 point C, is/was a good move considering the progress he made since, then there's nothing I can say.

It was just a horrible move made worse by the lack of value we received in return. I'm puzzled that anyone could think otherwise.