The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part III

[Icelevel]

Karlsson has 14 points in his last 16 games. He's also been on the ice for 24 minutes a game. This is in spite of San Jose being stacked defensively. He's been a very important player for them this season.

I really badly want San Jose to miss the playoffs and hand us a lottery pick, but I don't think that's going to happen, and other than us winning the lottery with one of those picks, I don't think that there's any way to spin this trade as a negative for San Jose. Karlsson's slow start is going to be in the rear view very soon, and his poor level of play was greatly exaggerated by people not watching him. Early in, he was greatly altering his style, but in most (not all) games, he was playing fantastic hockey and completely controlling the game for San Jose when he was on the ice.

Precisely

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Karlsson has 14 points in his last 16 games. He's also been on the ice for 24 minutes a game. This is in spite of San Jose being stacked defensively. He's been a very important player for them this season.

I really badly want San Jose to miss the playoffs and hand us a lottery pick, but I don't think that's going to happen, and other than us winning the lottery with one of those picks, I don't think that there's any way to spin this trade as a negative for San Jose. Karlsson's slow start is going to be in the rear view very soon, and his poor level of play was greatly exaggerated by people not watching him. Early in, he was greatly altering his style, but in most (not all) games, he was playing fantastic hockey and completely controlling the game for San Jose when he was on the ice.

If Sam Jose gets beat in the first round and Karlsson walks it’ll be viewed as a negative trade for them. For Doug Wilson you still take that chance 10/10 times I’d say for trading for a player like Karlsson.

 

[Agent Zub]

If Sam Jose gets beat in the first round and Karlsson walks it’ll be viewed as a negative trade for them. For Doug Wilson you still take that chance 10/10 times I’d say for trading for a player like Karlsson.

Why would it be negative? They barely gave up anything for him.

 

[Tuna99]

Why would it be negative? They barely gave up anything for him.

Negative because you don’t trade that much for EK to lose in the 1st round. SJ could of just done that with the team they had and maintained the assets.

And the value is there, this is my equal value of Dorion traded everyone by the deadline:

Tierney - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

Demelo - two 2nd round picks

Norris - 1st round pick

Balcers - 4th round pick

So the equivalent return for EK if all cakes out is:

1st 2019
1st 2020
Four 2nd round picks
3rd round pick
4th round pick

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Why would it be negative? They barely gave up anything for him.

that's where we disagree. I dont think San Jose gave up a ton, but i dont consider Tierney, DeMelo, Norris, and a 1st barely anything.

 

[Agent Zub]

that's where we disagree. I dont think San Jose gave up a ton, but i dont consider Tierney, DeMelo, Norris, and a 1st barely anything.

Tierney would be a third liner on their team, Demelo probably a healthy scratch, and Norris is a good piece (Bowers level) but far from a blue chip prospect, I guess a late first is decent.

They literally gave up nothing important and we didn't gain anything important.

Compare what we gave up to get Duchene vs what we got for EK.

 

[Tuna99]

Tierney would be a third liner on their team, Demelo probably a healthy scratch, and Norris is a good piece but far from a blue chip prospect, I guess a late first is decent.

They literally gave up nothing important and we didn't gain anything important.

SJ is an old team with not very great depth. If the 1st from the EK trade falls to 2020, and the way the NHL is, SJ could easily be a bottom 10 team next year and who knows what happens with that lottery pick.

Could be a very astute move by PD. Let’s judge the trade once we have all the info

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If Sam Jose gets beat in the first round and Karlsson walks it’ll be viewed as a negative trade for them. For Doug Wilson you still take that chance 10/10 times I’d say for trading for a player like Karlsson.

Maybe people will look at it negatively if that happens, but I think that would be a flawed way to look at the trade.

A lot of what San Jose gets from the trade is based on paying for chance, so we can't just eliminate the value (at the time of the trade) of that chance, even if it doesn't work out in the end. The chance of seeing how far they go by adding the absolute best rental that has been available to any team in recent memory, and the chance of having the inside track to sign this generations best defenseman,

None of the pieces they gave up hurt them at all. This doesn't mean we didn't get pieces that will help us given that Karlsson was gone anyways and it was presumably the best offer, but it was basically an HFBoards trade proposal in "Let me list six pieces I don't care that much about so I don't have to give you a really good piece!". If someone made that same proposal six months ago, it would have probably been locked and an HFBoards moderator would have phoned the original poster's ISP in order to request that they block HFBoards from their service.

San Jose getting the opportunities they've gotten with Karlsson (Playoff run, inside track to re-sign him) without hurting themselves with the return is bonkers. It shows both how badly we flubbed the trade, and how badly other GMs were sleeping on acquiring Karlsson. This trade only ends up hurting San Jose if all three of the following happen. Not just one, but all three. Erik Karlsson doesn't re-sign. The Sharks miss the playoffs in 2020. The Sharks pick wins the lottery in 2020. The odds of all three of those things happening are astronomically low.

 

[Agent Zub]

SJ is an old team with not very great depth. If the 1st from the EK trade falls to 2020, and the way the NHL is, SJ could easily be a bottom 10 team next year and who knows what happens with that lottery pick.

Could be a very astute move by PD. Let’s judge the trade once we have all the info

Or they could sign a generational player in his prime. They certainly gave themselves the best chance to. That alone is worth the non consequential pieces they gave up.

 

[branch]

Another awkward moment could be the fact that Chris Tierney has the same amount of points, as EK65 .

This didn't age well.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

This didn't age well.

Dylan Demelo is the defender that we always needed Erik Karlsson to be. Demelo is +100.

 

[justafan22]

Maybe people will look at it negatively if that happens, but I think that would be a flawed way to look at the trade.

A lot of what San Jose gets from the trade is based on paying for chance, so we can't just eliminate the value (at the time of the trade) of that chance, even if it doesn't work out in the end. The chance of seeing how far they go by adding the absolute best rental that has been available to any team in recent memory, and the chance of having the inside track to sign this generations best defenseman,

None of the pieces they gave up hurt them at all. This doesn't mean we didn't get pieces that will help us given that Karlsson was gone anyways and it was presumably the best offer, but it was basically an HFBoards trade proposal in "Let me list six pieces I don't care that much about so I don't have to give you a really good piece!". If someone made that same proposal six months ago, it would have probably been locked and an HFBoards moderator would have phoned the original poster's ISP in order to request that they block HFBoards from their service.

San Jose getting the opportunities they've gotten with Karlsson (Playoff run, inside track to re-sign him) without hurting themselves with the return is bonkers. It shows both how badly we flubbed the trade, and how badly other GMs were sleeping on acquiring Karlsson. This trade only ends up hurting San Jose if all three of the following happen. Not just one, but all three. Erik Karlsson doesn't re-sign. The Sharks miss the playoffs in 2020. The Sharks pick wins the lottery in 2020. The odds of all three of those things happening are astronomically low.

Plus if Karlsson walks, aside from Tierney, they save some cap room on meh players

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Im hoping Norris turns out to be a similar player to White, it'll make the trade look a little better at least

 

[branch]

Dylan Demelo is the defender that we always needed Erik Karlsson to be. Demelo is +100.

I think someone should leave the hockey talk to other people and concentrate on feverishly spinning whatever he sees fit...

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think someone should leave the hockey talk to other people and concentrate on feverishly spinning whatever he sees fit...

It was not meant as a shot at anyone in particular because I don't remember who was leading the charge, but I remember earlier in the season some posters who I'd have to imagine weren't watching Karlsson and were at the very least hinting at the idea that maybe Demelo is more valuable because he had a great +/-.

Similar to the Tierney take about points.

Alex Chiasson has more goals than Matt Duchene. Therefore we'd be better with him. That kind of take.

 

[BondraTime]

Negative because you don’t trade that much for EK to lose in the 1st round. SJ could of just done that with the team they had and maintained the assets.

And the value is there, this is my equal value of Dorion traded everyone by the deadline:

Tierney - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

Demelo - two 2nd round picks

Norris - 1st round pick

Balcers - 4th round pick

So the equivalent return for EK if all cakes out is:

1st 2019
1st 2020
Four 2nd round picks
3rd round pick
4th round pick

Demelo was literally free for anyone to take, he was a UFA for 2 weeks this summer.

San Jose didn't qualify him. There is no way, like 0% chance Demelo has the value of 2 2nd round picks, I'd be surprised if he got more than a 4th. The rest seems about right, but Demelo has little worth around the league.

 

[BondraTime]

This didn't age well.

Well it's 22 points for Tierny to 23 for Karlsson who pulled ahead after Dracula made the comment, nothing really aged there

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Demelo was literally free for anyone to take, he was a UFA for 2 weeks this summer.

San Jose didn't qualify him. There is no way, like 0% chance Demelo has the value of 2 2nd round picks, I'd be surprised if he got more than a 4th. The rest seems about right, but Demelo has little worth around the league.

Ya I'm surprised there wasnt more interest in Demelo considering how well he's played for us. He's a decent player, nothing special, but he should hold some value if Ottawa decides to trade him.

 

[BondraTime]

Ya I'm surprised there wasnt more interest in Demelo considering how well he's played for us. He's a decent player, nothing special, but he should hold some value if Ottawa decides to trade him.

He seems like a fine bottom pairing guy, nothing more. They don't have much value around the league, a better guy in Cole only got us a 3rd round pick from a playoff team last year

 

[Tuna99]

Or they could sign a generational player in his prime. They certainly gave themselves the best chance to. That alone is worth the non consequential pieces they gave up.

And if they sign him we get an extra pick, maybe even a 1st, so better for us

 

[Agent Zub]

And if they sign him we get an extra pick, maybe even a 1st, so better for us

and it would still be one of the worst trades ever.

 

[stempniaksen]

This didn't age well.

He had to use it one last time before he never could again.

 

[GCK]

Or they could sign a generational player in his prime. They certainly gave themselves the best chance to. That alone is worth the non consequential pieces they gave up.

He is nearing the end of his prime years.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Negative because you don’t trade that much for EK to lose in the 1st round. SJ could of just done that with the team they had and maintained the assets.

And the value is there, this is my equal value of Dorion traded everyone by the deadline:

Tierney - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

Demelo - two 2nd round picks

Norris - 1st round pick

Balcers - 4th round pick

So the equivalent return for EK if all cakes out is:

1st 2019
1st 2020
Four 2nd round picks
3rd round pick
4th round pick

That’s....a strange way to look at things.

 

[BatherSeason]

Negative because you don’t trade that much for EK to lose in the 1st round. SJ could of just done that with the team they had and maintained the assets.

And the value is there, this is my equal value of Dorion traded everyone by the deadline:

Tierney - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

Demelo - two 2nd round picks

Norris - 1st round pick

Balcers - 4th round pick

So the equivalent return for EK if all cakes out is:

1st 2019
1st 2020
Four 2nd round picks
3rd round pick
4th round pick

Demelo and Tierney are not worth even close to that much