The official Loui Eriksson thread (aka the official Tyler Seguin thread)

[BergyWho37]

Seguin was not a fit on this team as Gaborek wouldn't be a fit: they are one-dimensional players, albeit very good at that single dimension. Seguin needs to be treated like a star in order to succeed. That was not going to happen in Boston. Same was true of Kessel. Maybe that means we have a bad plan, but recent success would say otherwise.

Now, if Seguin grows into a great all around player this will prove to be a bad trade. I don't think that will be the case.

Umm this post is far fetched ..Kessel n Segs are not Bruins anymore cause of our coach end of story !

 

[ORRMAN]

Umm this post is far fetched ..Kessel n Segs are not Bruins anymore cause of our coach end of story !

. . . who uses a system in which Seguin and Kessel do not fit.

 

[BergyWho37]

. . . who uses a system in which Seguin and Kessel do not fit.

Yes n No is Kessel failing under Randy ? Same style coaching

 

[ReggieMoto]

Umm this post is far fetched ..Kessel n Segs are not Bruins anymore cause of our coach end of story !

Um...yeah, right. Perhaps you missed the episode of "Behind the B" where an interesting discussion took place among the front office execs regarding Seguin. It provided some perspective on what the front office thought of Seguin and his growth path with the team.

Kessel didn't want to be here, presumably because he didn't agree with the system the team was using. He also wasn't a big fan of working out, or so the story goes. He was busy burning bridges.

Perhaps you simply don't care for the coach's style and system, and this clouds your own perspective of what transpired with these trades.

 

[Dellstrom]

Umm this post is far fetched ..Kessel n Segs are not Bruins anymore cause of our coach end of story !

Did you watch Behind the B? Chiarelli and (especially) Neely were noticeably upset that he hadn't developed much in terms of physicality and defensive play in three years.

Kessel wanted out of Boston. He would have been offer-sheeted, and we would have had to match a ludicrous contract to keep a player who hated playing here. Not a good scenario. Gotta trade him there and Chiarelli did very well with the return.

Seguin was given too big of a deal after too small of a sample size. The Bruins staff was looking for a lot more from him in his 3rd year, and they didn't really get it. It was a mistake, but his contract didn't take anything away from his value. You won't find young potential #1Cs on the market very often. I'm sure Chiarelli had been eyeing Loui since he became GM, a two-way winger like him looks to be a perfect fit. He got a deal done, shed a lot of cap, and we're still an extremely competitive team.

 

[TCL40]

Brad Marchand was the Bruins leading scorer in 2012/13 and the guy did absolutely nothing in the 'hawks series (not so much as a secondary assist)...

I don't disagree, his playoffs wasn't the best either-however he also doesn't come with a 6 million dollar cap hit, and from a fan perspective he has always seemed very coach able and one to respond well to team discipline if issues arose. Marchand has always worked hard to adjust his game if/when asked. Seguin not so much.

Seguin I think burned some bridges in regard to responding well to being called on the carpet-fans only know of a few issues but in the discussion on whether to trade a comment was made about his problems off the ice as well as how he responded to coaching staff. He also IMO just wasn't adjusting his game-he was trying to do the same things that worked in previous years without much success and he was still allergic to the dirty areas.

Also, while Marchand wasn't traded I don't think he is untouchable and I don't think he sees himself as untouchable.

 

[DKH]

^^^^. This x 100...

I don't mean to get away from the actual trade discussion, but - while Segs didn't have a great playoffs, he was far from a liability, and certainly not "the" reason Chicago beat us.

Behind the B, sorta, kinda alluded that had he played to his ability they win. Not Cam, not Chia, but Benning makes the comment.....oh, the Behind the Scenes of Behind the B (now that would be interesting to watch)

Here is hoping Seguin goes for 50 goals so much more fun if that happens.....plus when he eventually tweets out something inflammatory about Boston and worse- us, and then tries to blame it was hacked, or his Black Hawks hat wearing likely free loading buddy did it, it will be so much fun.

The twenty year old me would have taken this so personal- how dare he!!! I'd have wished Flying Monkeys took him to the highest tower in JJ's palatial estate in Ocala....but the 50 year old me wants 50 goals for entertainment purposes.

I don't completely blame Seguin for that one singular play in game 4, the singular plays blame goes Daugevains in the third overtime. Had he buried Seguin's brilliant feed in the first game overtime, and game two gone the same (Seguin setting up Paille) most likely the Broons win this quick. But nothing I can do but think of Seguin's sad ass matador lazy ass stick practice move in game 4.

Wonder why the Bruins front office that if anything is to patient bailed on this guy so quick- hmmmmmmmm

 

[BergyWho37]

Did you watch Behind the B? Chiarelli and (especially) Neely were noticeably upset that he hadn't developed much in terms of physicality and defensive play in three years.

Kessel wanted out of Boston. He would have been offer-sheeted, and we would have had to match a ludicrous contract to keep a player who hated playing here. Not a good scenario. Gotta trade him there and Chiarelli did very well with the return.

Seguin was given too big of a deal after too small of a sample size. The Bruins staff was looking for a lot more from him in his 3rd year, and they didn't really get it. It was a mistake, but his contract didn't take anything away from his value. You won't find young potential #1Cs on the market very often. I'm sure Chiarelli had been eyeing Loui since he became GM, a two-way winger like him looks to be a perfect fit. He got a deal done, shed a lot of cap, and we're still an extremely competitive team.

Dude I'm not saying Segs couldn't have given more. I'm saying Claude should have gotten more out Segs ..never gave Segs a fair shake even on the top line when everyone knows Segs is better then Horton.

I'm not coming down on the trade either and I do like the guys we got ... Just say'n Segs had problems sure but Claude has his hands in this too

 

[TCL40]

Behind the B, sorta, kinda alluded that had he played to his ability they win. Not Cam, not Chia, but Benning makes the comment.....oh, the Behind the Scenes of Behind the B (now that would be interesting to watch)

Here is hoping Seguin goes for 50 goals so much more fun if that happens.....plus when he eventually tweets out something inflammatory about Boston and worse- us, and then tries to blame it was hacked, or his Black Hawks hat wearing likely free loading buddy did it, it will be so much fun.

The twenty year old me would have taken this so personal- how dare he!!! I'd have wished Flying Monkeys took him to the highest tower in JJ's palatial estate in Ocala....but the 50 year old me wants 50 goals for entertainment purposes.

I don't Seguin, I blame Daugevains. Had he buried Seguin's brilliant feed in the first game overtime, and game two gone the same (Seguin setting up Paille) most likely the Broons win this quick. But nothing I can do but think of Seguin's sad ass matador lazy ass stick practice move in game 4.

Wonder why the Bruins front office that if anything is to patient bailed on this guy so quick- hmmmmmmmm

You know-I gotta say Daugavins is a whole different discussion but I am yet to understand why Julien continued to use him after Campbell went down. While Yeti was still figuring things out I have the feeling he wouldn't have missed that wide open net.

Honestly I think the Bruins needed more from their forwards and in the Cup run they kind of were able to deal with the loss of Campbell but once Bergy got injured the team just didn't have the depth to deal-especially with three injured D-men (Ference was playing on the fractured foot, Chara with the hip, and Seids with the hamstring).

I have said it before but in 2011 Seguin was our 13th, last year we had Pandolfo and then Daugavins and eventually Soderberg.

 

[LSCII]

Did you watch Behind the B? Chiarelli and (especially) Neely were noticeably upset that he hadn't developed much in terms of physicality and defensive play in three years.

Kessel wanted out of Boston. He would have been offer-sheeted, and we would have had to match a ludicrous contract to keep a player who hated playing here. Not a good scenario. Gotta trade him there and Chiarelli did very well with the return.

Seguin was given too big of a deal after too small of a sample size. The Bruins staff was looking for a lot more from him in his 3rd year, and they didn't really get it. It was a mistake, but his contract didn't take anything away from his value. You won't find young potential #1Cs on the market very often. I'm sure Chiarelli had been eyeing Loui since he became GM, a two-way winger like him looks to be a perfect fit. He got a deal done, shed a lot of cap, and we're still an extremely competitive team.

Expecting a finesse player to suddenly develop into a physical presence is foolhardy. If that's what they wanted, they should have flipped the second overall pick for a couple of 3rd liners at the draft. Would have saved them the trouble of hiring security guards to keep Tyler locked in during the playoffs...

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

Behind the B, sorta, kinda alluded that had he played to his ability they win. Not Cam, not Chia, but Benning makes the comment.....oh, the Behind the Scenes of Behind the B (now that would be interesting to watch)

Here is hoping Seguin goes for 50 goals so much more fun if that happens.....plus when he eventually tweets out something inflammatory about Boston and worse- us, and then tries to blame it was hacked, or his Black Hawks hat wearing likely free loading buddy did it, it will be so much fun.

The twenty year old me would have taken this so personal- how dare he!!! I'd have wished Flying Monkeys took him to the highest tower in JJ's palatial estate in Ocala....but the 50 year old me wants 50 goals for entertainment purposes.

I don't completely blame Seguin for that one singular play in game 4, the singular plays blame goes Daugevains in the third overtime. Had he buried Seguin's brilliant feed in the first game overtime, and game two gone the same (Seguin setting up Paille) most likely the Broons win this quick. But nothing I can do but think of Seguin's sad ass matador lazy ass stick practice move in game 4.

Wonder why the Bruins front office that if anything is to patient bailed on this guy so quick- hmmmmmmmm

This post is all kinds of brilliant.

 

[BoyntBergie]

Another thing on the overall deal itself- why are people so quick to write Fraser off? I keep seeing it parroted that "AHL goals rarely translate into NHL goals". Is that even true?

Sure, there are plenty of Bochenskis out there, but there's also an endless list of guys who have spent time in the A, succeeded, and turned into good to very good NHL players. In fact I'd bet that statistically speaking, players who are having Fraser's level of success in the AHL more often than not do end up being solid NHL players.

I'm definitely not saying the guy's going to be a perennial 30 or even 20 goal scorer in the bigs, but you would think a 23-year old with 81 goals over his last 150 AHL games would be nothing to sneeze at. I know he needs to work on his skating, but I'd be surprised if Fraser isn't a solid NHL player at some point in his career.

 

[BNHL]

As for Kessel,Chia had no options. Kessel would not counteroffer,he wanted out...period.

 

[Ozamataz Buckshank]

Another thing on the overall deal itself- why are people so quick to write Fraser off? I keep seeing it parroted that "AHL goals rarely translate into NHL goals". Is that even true?

Sure, there are plenty of Bochenskis out there, but there's also an endless list of guys who have spent time in the A, succeeded, and turned into good to very good NHL players. In fact I'd bet that statistically speaking, players who are having Fraser's level of success in the AHL more often than not do end up being solid NHL players.

I'm definitely not saying the guy's going to be a perennial 30 or even 20 goal scorer in the bigs, but you would think a 23-year old with 81 goals over his last 150 AHL games would be nothing to sneeze at. I know he needs to work on his skating, but I'd be surprised if Fraser isn't a solid NHL player at some point in his career.

Sooo...like Chris Bourque.

 

[Artemis]

Expecting a finesse player to suddenly develop into a physical presence is foolhardy. If that's what they wanted, they should have flipped the second overall pick for a couple of 3rd liners at the draft. Would have saved them the trouble of hiring security guards to keep Tyler locked in during the playoffs...

Nowhere has Chiarelli or anyone else said they wanted or expected Seguin to develop into a physical presence. They wanted and expected him to COMPETE. I doubt anyone would call Krejci a physical presence, or a grinder, but he takes his licks and pays the price to score or to set up his linemates.

And competing isn't just about knocking people down, or being willing to be knocked down. It's also about using your head on the ice and not trying the same schtick over and over and over.

As for that security guard story, it was reportedly nonsense.

 

[BoyntBergie]

Sooo...like Chris Bourque.

Or like Pominville. Or like Moulson. Or Brouwer. I could go on.

Bourque never scored goals in the A the way Fraser has either, not even close.

Like I said, it doesn't translate into guaranteed NHL success, I was just questioning the parrots out there (which you are apparently one of) who just automatically say "so did Bourque! So did Bochenski!" when presented with Fraser's very impressive AHL numbers.

People around here seem to equate AHL dominance with sure-fire NHL failure, which I guess at this point I shouldn't be surprised by.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Umm this post is far fetched ..Kessel n Segs are not Bruins anymore cause of our coach end of story !

This is false.

 

[BergyWho37]

This is false.

Truth hurts bro ...sry

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Truth hurts bro ...sry

To say they're both gone simply because of the coach, "end of story" is not the truth, bro.

"sry"

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

Truth hurts bro ...sry

I do enjoy the way you come off as "hey, someone's gotta tell the truth around here, even if you can't deal with it!" Good stuff.

 

[LSCII]

Another thing on the overall deal itself- why are people so quick to write Fraser off? I keep seeing it parroted that "AHL goals rarely translate into NHL goals". Is that even true?

Sure, there are plenty of Bochenskis out there, but there's also an endless list of guys who have spent time in the A, succeeded, and turned into good to very good NHL players. In fact I'd bet that statistically speaking, players who are having Fraser's level of success in the AHL more often than not do end up being solid NHL players.

I'm definitely not saying the guy's going to be a perennial 30 or even 20 goal scorer in the bigs, but you would think a 23-year old with 81 goals over his last 150 AHL games would be nothing to sneeze at. I know he needs to work on his skating, but I'd be surprised if Fraser isn't a solid NHL player at some point in his career.

Alexandre Giroux says hi. Scored 50 goals in the A to lead it back in 2010, has all of 6 NHL goals. Cory Conacher says hi too. Colin McDonald as well. Jason Krog too. I could go on, but why bother? See for yourself. The majority of guys who have lead the A in scoring don't amount to jack in the NHL. AHL goals DO NOT TRANSLATE to NHL scoring ability.

Go in and sort it all you want and you'll see:

http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay...son_id=43&league_id=4&division_id=-1&confId=0

So feel free to bring up Fraser as if he's a legit prospect. I for one will expect next to nothing, since that's the track record in the NHL for prolific AHL scorers.

 

[BergyWho37]

To say they're both gone simply because of the coach, "end of story" is not the truth, bro.

"sry"

Okay bud there is blame to go around but at the end of the day Kessel is gone cause of Claude.. PC had no choice Yes Kessel has blame here

Claude didn't give Segs near enough time on PP or enough time with Lucic n Krejci ...Claude used him in a roll to strengthen his defensive game witch I'm not knocking. Just say'n .. Needed to let him out of this roll before he was traded ... Blame goes around but IMO could have been prevented by Coaching

This might sound like an attack on Claude and maybe some harsh words but really I'm not he's a great coach and so many thing to like ...just say'n this is overlooked and lots don't want to say it

 

[qc]

I'm truly on the fence when it comes to swapping Iggy for Loui. Both sides of the debate raise a lot of valid points. I think it might be a good idea to test it on Thurs, if the current lines struggle on Monday and Tuesday.

 

[Fossy21]

I saw he had 7:22 of PPTOI the other day. Only Krug gets that here!!!

No one does, we'd have to have at least 5 PP's for that (no way he played that much in 4 PP's, especially since they probably scored on them), and we rarely get even one.

Also: I swear this thread reminds me of internet discussions on religion. They fascinate me, but irritate me to bits because of the amount of logical fallacies and ignoring the opponents' arguments we have going around. Plus the fact that there is not and will most likely never be a definite answer to who "won" this trade or any: It's all so hypothetical in so many steps, especially with so many pieces and salary cap involved. I know it's my fault for reading it, and I know I'll probably continue... Wouldn't surprise me if a thread like this is the death of me, I feel an aneurysm coming.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Okay bud there is blame to go around but at the end of the day Kessel is gone cause of Claude.. PC had no choice Yes Kessel has blame here

Claude didn't give Segs near enough time on PP or enough time with Lucic n Krejci ...Claude used him in a roll to strengthen his defensive game witch I'm not knocking. Just say'n .. Needed to let him out of this roll before he was traded ... Blame goes around but IMO could have been prevented by Coaching

This might sound like an attack on Claude and maybe some harsh words but really I'm not he's a great coach and so many thing to like ...just say'n this is overlooked and lots don't want to say it

I'll agree he should have been with Lucic and Krejci in the regular season, but not during the playoffs. That line carried us. Would've been silly to split them up.

It's clear the front office was not happy with Seguin's effort game in and game out. I don't think that's a coaching issue.