News Article: The Nylander Saga.

[tmlfan98]

Yes, the hypothetical player has two options if he wanted the Nylander contract. Either make 45 mil over six FULL seasons, or 42 mil over 5.6 seasons. That's precisely what I'm arguing.

The "additional context" you're providing is just spin to try and rationalize the contract. This has nothing to do with Marner getting elc bonuses or not. This is about a player NOT under contract and, as such, NOT getting paid for those 2 months. you say Nylander is "made whole", but that's just due to structuring of signing bonuses and front loading... something someone who wanted the "nylander contract" would want as well. They would NOT just play those first 2 months for free. So they would be asking for the 45 mil/6 seasons. There's no real debate here. The contract is OFFICIALLY LISTED as 45mil/6 seasons. He lost two months of pay for sitting out.

Good god... the level of spin and mental gymnastics here. Me? I don't have to. It's this simple "Contract is officially listed as 45/6. Nylander lost 2 months pay for sitting out. The end."

What's with this 45/6 technicality argument? If we were poor like the Coyotes maybe this cash over cap argument holds weight, but his cap hit is 6.9 not 7.5.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It is pretty straight forward to me... Nylander sat for 2 months, they wanted to make sure he received the full contract as if he played for the entire year. If he played for the full year, there is no guarantee that he would have received more money. He just would not have had the stipulation that was included in this case since he was not going to lose any money for starting late.

Stipends like that happen all of the time in business and it life, but it is often a "use it or lose it" policy. So in terms of "why would he play 2 months for free?", he had a stipend offered to him (not necessarily offered to everyone) where he was able to get paid for the two months he did not play. That does not mean he can exchange that for more money if he did play those two months, just like he can't exchange a $5 off coupon for $5 in cash.

If other players want to find out of that stipend would be offered to them, they are welcome to sit for 2 months and find out.

Also, it is not "spinning", it is "framing". You are looking at it as the contract is listed at 45 mill/6 years, which is true. I am looking at it like he is getting paid at 42 mill/6 years, which is also true. You are looking at it more pessimistically, I am looking at it more optimistically, but it is the same set of facts. Spinning is when you look at negative events (i.e. We got swept in the playoffs) to try to make it sound overly positive (i.e. at least our players won't get hurt by playing more).

Im not even sure if I believe the premise, so let’s start there before I proceed.

Did Dubas come out and directly say that Nylander was made whole for the time he sat out?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

What's with this 45/6 technicality argument? If we were poor like the Coyotes maybe this cash over cap argument holds weight, but his cap hit is 6.9 not 7.5.

He officially signed for 45 mil over 6 FULL years. 7.5 aav. They then subtracted out the 2 months he wasn’t under contract.

 

[tmlfan98]

He officially signed for 45 mil over 6 FULL years. 7.5 aav. They then subtracted out the 2 months he wasn’t under contract.

Ok and? That doesn't change the fact that his cap hit is 6.9.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Ok and? That doesn't change the fact that his cap hit is 6.9.

Well... the specific debate I joined in this thread was “If another player wanted the specific Nylander contract at six FULL seasons, would he mean 45/6 or (lol) 42/5.6?”

 

[tmlfan98]

Well... the specific debate I joined in this thread was “If another player wanted the specific Nylander contract at six FULL seasons, would he mean 45/6 or (lol) 42/5.6?”

Probably 6.9x6 because Dubas and Nylander were fully aware of how the missed games would impact his pay. 45/6 is just a technicality to account for the missed games, the reality is Dubas and Nylander negotiated 6.9x6 and Nylander isn't even making 45M over the course of this deal. He would have made 45M if that deal was signed before the start of 2018-19.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Probably 6.9x6 because Dubas and Nylander were fully aware of how the missed games would impact his pay. 45/6 is just a technicality to account for the missed games, the reality is Dubas and Nylander negotiated 6.9x6 and Nylander isn't even making 45M over the course of this deal. He would have made 45M if that deal was signed before the start of 2018-19.

Incorrect.

the reality is that they negotiated for 45 million over 6 FULL seasons (as it’s officially listed). But then the two months pay he wasn’t under contract was subtracted out. So it’s 42 mil over 5.6 seasons.

 

[kb]

He's such a soft perimeter player though

lol

 

[tmlfan98]

Incorrect.

the reality is that they negotiated for 45 million over 6 FULL seasons (as it’s officially listed). But then the two months pay he wasn’t under contract was subtracted out. So it’s 42 mil over 5.6 seasons.

Irrelevant.

Dubas didn't care about the official listing being 45/6, all he cared about was the cap hit being under 7M. 45/6 never would have been offered at the start of the season because then the cap hit would actually be over 7.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Irrelevant.

Dubas didn't care about the official listing being 45/6, all he cared about was the cap hit being under 7M. 45/6 never would have been offered at the start of the season because then the cap hit would actually be over 7.

So another player wanting the Nylander contract would just play the first 2 months for free?

 

[tmlfan98]

So another player wanting the Nylander contract would just play the first 2 months for free?

Another player wanting the Nylander contract would ask for 6.9x6.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Another player wanting the Nylander contract would ask for 6.9x6.

And play the first two months for free, eh? I guess they’ll be “volunteer” hockey players for two months. I’m sure they and their agents will be fine with that.

 

[tmlfan98]

And play the first two months for free, eh? I guess they’ll be “volunteer” hockey players for two months. I’m sure they and their agents will be fine with that.

No I never said that. Just that they would ask for 6.9x6.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No I never said that. Just that they would ask for 6.9x6.

Nylander signed for 7.5x6, or 6.9x5.6.

No spin will ever change that.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Everyone of this guys top goals were in front of the net. He has such soft hands around the crease. Also, he always finds a way to slip passed a d man.

 

[Menzinger]

On November 30 of that year, there was zero cap registered for Willy...so no, not 6 years.

He got made whole for time missed. His total take home dollars is exactly 6.96x6.

Other rfas who signed their deal in mid November may use it as an argument they should be made whole too, but that still doesn't change the reality of what his average contract value is.

 

[Menzinger]

Its hard for anyone trying to be objective and also not be critical of Nylander's play and contribution come playoff time and come away disappointed and feeling the tight checking and physical style is not conducive to his preferred style of play, and he appears to check out rather than become a deciding factor when the going gets tough and his clean zone entries with possession are disrupted by neutral zone trapping opposition defensive systems.

His game is not very transferable to playoff style as its unlikely we're going to see him engage physically to win contested puck battles, or suddenly dump it in and then aggressively charge into the corners to win 50/50 puck battles while taking physical punishment to do so, when the rush attack is not available. Its simply not in his DNA and thus the reason he earns that soft perimeter player reputation as he prefers to avoid physical contact and stick check whenever possible.

In 25 playoff games (including last years play-in series) Willy has 5 goals in 25 games over 4 series.

2015-16 vs Washington ... 6 games 1 goal
2016-17 vs Boston ............... 7 games 1 goal
2018-19 vs Boston .............. 7 games 1 goal
2019-20 vs Columbus ..... 5 games 2 goals (1/2 his points in the entire series coming in that 3 minutes goalie out)

If Nylander on average is scoring 1 goal every 6-7 game playoff series in round #1 then he is part of the problem not the solution why Leafs are bowing out early. IMO

Not sure we should consider points scored in clutch situations as a negative.

He also had 2nd on the team for 5v5 points that last Bruins series but wasn't on that 1st pp unit to pad stats with the others. He was also his lines playmaker for 2/3- of those playoff series so I'm also not sure if goals scored is the best metric for offensive success either.

I think hes definitely earned criticisms for some of his post season play, but think you're not exactly framing it as accurately as you could.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

He got made whole for time missed. His total take home dollars is exactly 6.96x6.

Other rfas who signed their deal in mid November may use it as an argument they should be made whole too, but that still doesn't change the reality of what his average contract value is.

Did Dubas ever come out and say that Nylander was “made whole”? I still think it’s 45 mil/6 or 42 mil/5.6 regardless... but I’m just skeptical that Dubas even said that.

 

[Notsince67]

He got made whole for time missed. His total take home dollars is exactly 6.96x6.

Other rfas who signed their deal in mid November may use it as an argument they should be made whole too, but that still doesn't change the reality of what his average contract value is.

I get it. He is paid an affordable price and played to that expectation on his second year. Lets not pretend that he is outplaying his contract though because he still owes a bit of a tab based on year 1. Year 2 he played par.

 

[mapleleaf979]

As good as Nylander is, I wouldnt want Nylander as my linemate.

My main issue with Nylander is he the hardest Leaf player to build long term chemistry with and its his fault. Ive seen it with Bozak, Kadri, Matthews, Tavares. The chemistry with Nylander comes and goes. Its there when he is the playmaker, unselfish. He was removed from MAtthews line for checking out mentally off and on for 3 years. Look at the coaching change with Keefe. Nylander right away has strong chemistry with Tavares. Then its vanishes, mostly because Nylander has 3 different versions of himself.

Version #1 Nylander's at his best he is a pass first, unselfish, playmaker, who carries puck for his line. Strips guys of pucks cleanly with back pressure. Uses his puck protection skills. Thats the elite version of Willy. The first 10 games with Keefe. 80-100 point player.

Version #2 Nylander can check out mentally and have no interest in carrying the puck, skating, etc. Looks like he might have the flu or something. This has shown itself on the Marlies and Leafs over the course of his career.

Version #3 Nylander the puck hog, looks off his linemates, has some compete level but isnt working with anyone. Circles the zone, resets the play back to the defense. He seems to really enjoy the puck during this version but has his linemates check out mentally. The whole line suffers point production.

 

[ZEBROA]

As good as Nylander is, I wouldnt want Nylander as my linemate.

My main issue with Nylander is he the hardest Leaf player to build long term chemistry with and its his fault. Ive seen it with Bozak, Kadri, Matthews, Tavares. The chemistry with Nylander comes and goes. Its there when he is the playmaker, unselfish. He was removed from MAtthews line for checking out mentally off and on for 3 years. Look at the coaching change with Keefe. Nylander right away has strong chemistry with Tavares. Then its vanishes, mostly because Nylander has 3 different versions of himself.

Version #1 Nylander's at his best he is a pass first, unselfish, playmaker, who carries puck for his line. Strips guys of pucks cleanly with back pressure. Uses his puck protection skills. Thats the elite version of Willy. The first 10 games with Keefe. 80-100 point player.

Version #2 Nylander can check out mentally and have no interest in carrying the puck, skating, etc. Looks like he might have the flu or something. This has shown itself on the Marlies and Leafs over the course of his career.

Version #3 Nylander the puck hog, looks off his linemates, has some compete level but isnt working with anyone. Circles the zone, resets the play back to the defense. He seems to really enjoy the puck during this version but has his linemates check out mentally. The whole line suffers point production.

I would want him as my linemate because that would mean im a rich dude playing hockey on the Leafs.

And i would not check out when he puckhogs i would just place myself somewere good waiting for a shot or a pass. Its only ver2 of Nylander i dont like. But i would let him know that if he check out i would destroy his hair, superglue in the helmet his shampoo or something like that.

 

[Walshy7]

What a stupid argument

answer this very simple question what is the AAV of nylanders contract? $6.96m right? That’s all that matters. If a player somehow was being paid $20m per year but his cap hit was $6.96 why would anyone care? All leafs fans should care about is aav, who gives a shit the actual $$$ mlse is a billion dollar corporation. As long as the leafs are cap compliant who gives a shit

also “if a player asks for the nylander contract it would be $7.5m aav” again who cares no leafs player will be getting that anytime soon, in fact awesome another team with a similar player would have to pay more

 

[al secord]

As good as Nylander is, I wouldnt want Nylander as my linemate.

My main issue with Nylander is he the hardest Leaf player to build long term chemistry with and its his fault. Ive seen it with Bozak, Kadri, Matthews, Tavares. The chemistry with Nylander comes and goes. Its there when he is the playmaker, unselfish. He was removed from MAtthews line for checking out mentally off and on for 3 years. Look at the coaching change with Keefe. Nylander right away has strong chemistry with Tavares. Then its vanishes, mostly because Nylander has 3 different versions of himself.

Version #1 Nylander's at his best he is a pass first, unselfish, playmaker, who carries puck for his line. Strips guys of pucks cleanly with back pressure. Uses his puck protection skills. Thats the elite version of Willy. The first 10 games with Keefe. 80-100 point player.

Version #2 Nylander can check out mentally and have no interest in carrying the puck, skating, etc. Looks like he might have the flu or something. This has shown itself on the Marlies and Leafs over the course of his career.

Version #3 Nylander the puck hog, looks off his linemates, has some compete level but isnt working with anyone. Circles the zone, resets the play back to the defense. He seems to really enjoy the puck during this version but has his linemates check out mentally. The whole line suffers point production.

Sometimes i like to close my eyes and pretend i'm a fan of a different team. And see our players from the eyes of a different fanbase. Imagine what they would think of Willie.

To think of where we have come from as a team, to now. Having to defend a player wearing the blue and white, as good as Nylander is, with the contract he currently has, to another Leaf "fan" is downright embarrassing.

 

[ACC1224]

He got made whole for time missed. His total take home dollars is exactly 6.96x6.

Other rfas who signed their deal in mid November may use it as an argument they should be made whole too, but that still doesn't change the reality of what his average contract value is.

The being made whole is the issue, not the player himself. A little cap could have been saved there had he just paid him for the time he was willing to play.