The Nylander Chronicles Part XI - Electric Boogaloo

[Kiwi]

I don't think there's any "fault."
but I don't believe we're lowballing them, because I feel as shown by Kadri (and Rielly, and Tavares) they will pay people for what they are worth. they have really good deals, and as i've mentioned they all left a bit off the table. Nylander doesn't (and whatever his right). Shanahan was just emphasizing that fact. but again a tonne of people are pro player in this regard

What Shanahan said was bloody stupid

The player is holding out the last thing we should be doing is talking to the media about anything in relation to this negotiation, all your doing is poisoning the well and giving the Nylander camp even more reason to dig in

What Nylander wants is up to him, if he won't sign something acceptable long term get him bridged and look at trade options, it's not that hard

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Leafs have best team they’ve possible ever had.

Let’s strictly talk about contracts for three years!

- media

 

[Hotel Mario]

So nobody is going to pay him 8M but we can trade him while he's asking for 8M? How the hell do you work that, And why would anybody want to do that?

I'm more than willing to come on here and admit I'm wrong if he's traded while he's holding out, i'm exceedingly sure i wont be however



Hard to argue against the president of the Leafs isn't it? You should probably think about what he said



Bracco is an AHL player
Hyman is a hardworking grinder
Kapanen's hands and brain can't keep up with his feet

The Matthews line got it's teeth kicked in by a line with a maybe center with hardworking 3rd line wingers, that's bad by any metric for a line centered by Austin Matthews, Nylander is not a luxury, he's a necessity to carry the bloody puck up ice for that line and enter the offensive zone

We got badly outshot and couldn't get the puck up ice ffs, Price had a MUCH easier night than Andersen

Nobody is trading for Nylander unless they have

What we need in the trade (probably defense)
Cap space
A knowledge of what he's willing to sign for
A knowledge he's willing to sign there beforehand

That's bloody difficult in season, this is an off-season trade when he's under contract

You're basing that conclusion on 1 game, you'd have a point if the trend continued over multiple games. As of now Nylander still remains a player that Leafs don't desperately need. If Nylander was of the utmost importance NOW, why has Dubas not signed him?

A trade for Nylander will be difficult as you're alluding to, but not impossible. We may not receive the perfect return, but I trust player(s) will return that are willing to sacrifice/take fair value to win a championship

 

[Menzinger]

i am pretty sure if you offered a William Nylander who could move to centre (as he wants to). to a team that doesn't have high octane offense, or isn't deep down the middle, for a really good calibre defenseman i'm pretty sure it will be there. and as I would hope that Dubas isn't Dorion it won't be highway robbery. and that as Dubas isn't Chiarelli he won't take an obvious lower-quality player back.

Anaheim has a buttload of prospects and players and is sorely hurt. start there.
the issue is from where I am sitting is a few fold.

1. a lot of people don't want to give up the first cog of what was our rebuild. I understand and I get it
2. A lot of people here feel that defense is overrated and we can just cream everyone with our high octane offense, because of Pittsburgh. I understand that and I get it.
3. People really value what Nylander can become, and they don't want to give up the known/unknown, for a unknown/unknown. and again.
4. people live in the past and think everything is gonna be "omg we lost Steen/Rask". which. get over it.

like i said. I personally wouldn't move Nylander, but if he won't sign to a 6.1-6.5 deal then quite frankly, i don't see the point in keeping him. move him out for pieces that will help us and let him get what he feels he deserves else where. I don't see why it would behoove us to overpay him just to keep him, do you?

A very fair post. I just think some folks (not you) sort of take for granted how difficult it can be to make a good/fair trade in today’s NHL.

As for the overpayment issue I wouldnt give him 7.5-8 mil. I could grit my teeth and maybe give up 7 mil for 8 years. otherwise I’m still expecting a Deal in the 6-6.75 mil range over 6-7 years

 

[Kiwi]

You apparently ignored what he said, and more importantly why he came out publicly. Anyways, round and round.

I heard exactly what he said, did you? Because I remember him talking about taking less to play for championships in Detroit

The fact he had already made plenty of money in his career already and Detroit played him a crap ton at the time were conveniently forgotten over time it would seem however

There's a reason you don't go into the public arena with this **** that escaped both him and most of you on here, it achieves nothing and pisses the other side off usually

 

[socko]

I like the idea of Kappy moving up to play with Matthews.

I could never figure out why he never played with JVR. He's the only legit 30+ goals winger we've had during Matthews time and Matthews never got to play with him.

 

[BigBlu]

Just very not smart comments by Shanny. Kyle doesn't need your help....

Now Kyle comes back with any sort of a "final" offer and immediately Gross can ask if that's the "sacrifice offer" or if Kyle thinks it's the true market value... If you're Kyle you have to find reasons and be convincing that your offer is market value. Gross can always paint that claim as dubious now.

 

[Stephen]

no it's not weird. people have their feelings and they can not like a person. what i think it's weird that people have to feel like they have to A: justify their reasons, or B: feel bad that they don't someone. but again around these parts (a very general assessment) basically if you are super talented it instantly means you have to be beloved and shame on you for not doing so and if you like any other type of quality you are wrong or weird for doing so. which is simply not fair.

Actually, I'm going to say shame on you for taking this stand against William Nylander specifically.

At the end of the day, he can be a frustrating young player who doesn't do all the dirty things you want, he has a flashy personality and reputation and he might price himself out of the market by not buying into our championship hopeful program. Maybe not for everyone.

But, I acknowledge that he was front and center as part of a group that brought the Leafs back to respectability and created the sizzle that allowed us to get someone like Tavares. If he doesn't work out, he doesn't work out. Or everything gets resolved tomorrow. But I'm not taking it personally against the guy.

 

[DarkKnight]

I heard exactly what he said, did you? Because I remember him talking about taking less to play for championships in Detroit

The fact he had already made plenty of money in his career already and Detroit played him a crap ton at the time were conveniently forgotten over time it would seem however

There's a reason you don't go into the public arena with this **** that escaped both him and most of you on here, it achieves nothing and pisses the other side off usually

What escapes you is you actually think he and Dubas hadn’t talked about him making a public comment. Stop taking this so personal, you’re as bad as the cranks that hate him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

What Shanahan said was bloody stupid

The player is holding out the last thing we should be doing is talking to the media about anything in relation to this negotiation, all your doing is poisoning the well and giving the Nylander camp even more reason to dig in

What Nylander wants is up to him, if he won't sign something acceptable long term get him bridged and look at trade options, it's not that hard

no it wasn't. it's the truth. Crosby said it (and has done it) so has other high end players.
do you want to max out or do you want to win.
if you want to win, you might have to sacrifice money.
most of tampa's players has done it. (in the current CBA)
a lot of the other dynasty teams did it in the old CBA.

Shanahan isn't bloody stupid for stating the pure obvious fact of the matter.
the Leafs will pay you if that's what you want but then you have to ask your self is that's what's more important that being part of something special.

 

[Buds17]

I could never figure out why he never played with JVR. He's the only legit 30+ goals winger we've had during Matthews time and Matthews never got to play with him.

IMO, there might be only so far and high that can go in terms of production. Better to have the three 30+ goal scorers on three separate lines then - and obviously still look/hope to have that now with Tavares in for JVR - with the newly added benefit of them all being centres this season.

 

[Stephen]

no it wasn't. it's the truth. Crosby said it (and has done it) so has other high end players.
do you want to max out or do you want to win.
if you want to win, you might have to sacrifice money.
most of tampa's players has done it. (in the current CBA)
a lot of the other dynasty teams did it in the old CBA.

Shanahan isn't bloody stupid for stating the pure obvious fact of the matter.
the Leafs will pay you if that's what you want but then you have to ask your self is that's what's more important that being part of something special.

You might want to check to see what Crosby's cap percentage was when he came out of his ELC.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Actually, I'm going to say shame on you for taking this stand against William Nylander specifically.

At the end of the day, he can be a frustrating young player who doesn't do all the dirty things you want, he has a flashy personality and reputation and he might price himself out of the market by not buying into our championship hopeful program. Maybe not for everyone.

But, I acknowledge that he was front and center as part of a group that brought the Leafs back to respectability and created the sizzle that allowed us to get someone like Tavares. If he doesn't work out, he doesn't work out. Or everything gets resolved tomorrow. But I'm not taking it personally against the guy.

Shame on me for taking what stand on Nylander specifically?
because I didn't say anything about what you just said.

 

[Kiwi]

You're basing that conclusion on 1 game, you'd have a point if the trend continued over multiple games. As of now Nylander still remains a player that Leafs don't desperately need. If Nylander was of the utmost importance NOW, why has Dubas not signed him?

A trade for Nylander will be difficult as you're alluding to, but not impossible. We may not receive the perfect return, but I trust player(s) will return that are willing to sacrifice/take fair value to win a championship

I'm basing it off what Matthews has done over his career without a puck carrying winger flanking him, he's the best shooter from the slot in all of hockey imo but it's a lot easier if one of your wingers can carry the puck in backing up the defense and then finding him with a pass rather than carrying it in himself and trying to shoot with defenseman on his back

We're in a cap crunch, either he signs to the right AAV or he's got to be traded, there's very little middle ground and Dubas knows it imo, that's why we're playing hardball with him

He's to valuable to not get the max return on him, if you've got to bridge and then trade him you do it to max out the return, not getting what you need back and trading him would be painful

 

[socko]

the Leafs will pay you if that's what you want but then you have to ask your self is that's what's more important that being part of something special.

I didn't get that part out of it at all. I took it more as Shanahan bypassing the agent and communicating directly to Nylander that the offer wasn't getting any better ever. On to the bridge deal, and lets hope your expectations are a little more reasonable.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You might want to check to see what Crosby's cap percentage was when he came out of his ELC.

it doesn't matter what his cap percentage was. he took less then what he thought he was worth to help the Penguins. that's the argument being made, holy flipping moses.

 

[daveleaf]

I disagree that it was wrong for Shanny to say what he said, if anything it is brilliant. Hey, if you want to be on a team that will play for a chance at the cup every year, then this is the place. If you want max dollars, well, Phoenix would be a good choice.

If anything this set the groundwork for the way the Leafs handle things going forward. Edm is a distaster with the situation they are in, you just can't build a team that way. You guys can say what you want but Gino, Syd, Fleury and their dman all signed good deals that they could fill out a team. No one is saying he needs to sign 25% below market value but he is not worth Pastrnak money nor Morrisey, if he believes he is then good luck. He was a disgrace in those last couple of games against Bos and the way he ran like a scared child showed me he is not ready for the big stage. Don't get me wrong, a very good skilled player but if you had a team of Willy Nylanders, you will not go far in the playoffs. He can have a nice career here, playing alongside Mathews and maybe having a couple of cups, get some endorsement money and so on...….or hey, there is Carolina, Phoenix that would love him.

What Shanny did there the other day was brilliant. We want a team, not a bunch of high priced talent that does nothing. Tavares could have gotten a whole lot more but he chose less to come here.

If Willy was really serious about being a Leaf he would have his sorry ass at his place in Toronto and working on getting a deal done but he is not. He is in Sweden acting like the baby he is. I have a funny feeling this will end up with Willy elsewhere and we will be a better team for it.

 

[Stephen]

Just very not smart comments by Shanny. Kyle doesn't need your help....

Now Kyle comes back with any sort of a "final" offer and immediately Gross can ask if that's the "sacrifice offer" or if Kyle thinks it's the true market value... If you're Kyle you have to find reasons and be convincing that your offer is market value. Gross can always paint that claim as dubious now.

Well, maybe they realize Toronto isn't for Nylander and he wants to be a mercenary. That's within his right, but what's great is he's still a valuable asset who can be moved to further fuel the team.

 

[Gabriel426]

Out of all the comments from insiders... I think the one that I agreed with most is what Burke said the other day, he said Glass(Willie’s agent) is being tough and difficult bc Dubas is a rookie GM. I find that is probably the case for now, they are looking at if the Leafs struggle before making the next move.

 

[Daisy Jane]

A very fair post. I just think some folks (not you) sort of take for granted how difficult it can be to make a good/fair trade in today’s NHL.

As for the overpayment issue I wouldnt give him 7.5-8 mil. I could grit my teeth and maybe give up 7 mil for 8 years. otherwise I’m still expecting a Deal in the 6-6.75 mil range over 6-7 years

I'd probably do (if he was firm on 7) do 6.85-9.

 

[Stephen]

Shame on me for taking what stand on Nylander specifically?
because I didn't say anything about what you just said.

No, it's all insinuation, "maybe we don't have to like him just because... etc" but the fact is if Marner and Matthews weren't drafted right after him, he's probably our franchise guy. Just so happens we find ourselves in an era where we seem to be blessed with elite players, so we think he's extremely disposable. I've been through enough Nick Beverley, JFJ, Brian Burke eras to appreciate a good young player. If the contract doesn't work out it doesn't work out.

 

[kb]

What escapes you is you actually think he and Dubas hadn’t talked about him making a public comment. Stop taking this so personal, you’re as bad as the cranks that hate him.

But Shanahan just completely undermined all the contract talk efforts by talking about players taking less "to be part of something they can talk about in 20 or 30 years".

Does that sound like the words of a team making a fair market value offer?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The leafs simply have no chance to win if we have to pay our 20 goal/60 point players 7 million plus, while our direct competition can pay 34 goal/70 point players 6.6

We just won't be able to compete.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I disagree that it was wrong for Shanny to say what he said, if anything it is brilliant. Hey, if you want to be on a team that will play for a chance at the cup every year, then this is the place. If you want max dollars, well, Phoenix would be a good choice.

If anything this set the groundwork for the way the Leafs handle things going forward. Edm is a distaster with the situation they are in, you just can't build a team that way. You guys can say what you want but Gino, Syd, Fleury and their dman all signed good deals that they could fill out a team. No one is saying he needs to sign 25% below market value but he is not worth Pastrnak money nor Morrisey, if he believes he is then good luck. He was a disgrace in those last couple of games against Bos and the way he ran like a scared child showed me he is not ready for the big stage. Don't get me wrong, a very good skilled player but if you had a team of Willy Nylanders, you will not go far in the playoffs. He can have a nice career here, playing alongside Mathews and maybe having a couple of cups, get some endorsement money and so on...….or hey, there is Carolina, Phoenix that would love him.

What Shanny did there the other day was brilliant. We want a team, not a bunch of high priced talent that does nothing. Tavares could have gotten a whole lot more but he chose less to come here.

If Willy was really serious about being a Leaf he would have his sorry ass at his place in Toronto and working on getting a deal done but he is not. He is in Sweden acting like the baby he is. I have a funny feeling this will end up with Willy elsewhere and we will be a better team for it.

and i think that's what's tripping people up. I doubt the Leafs are like hey, I wanna give you 4.5 take it and shut up kid.
I said it a few threads ago. If he's comparing himself to Draistail+ (and thus wants his type of money) then he's deluded because Draistail isn't worth that much. Chia was stupid to give him that much money.

 

[Stephen]

it doesn't matter what his cap percentage was. he took less then what he thought he was worth to help the Penguins. that's the argument being made, holy flipping moses.

The guy was the second highest paid player in the NHL at 21, he wasn't taking a discount.