The NJ Devils Goaltender Thread

[Emperoreddy]

I belive in the Big Mac

 

[longislanddevil]

Very encouraging what we are seeing out of Blackwood. It may be premature to anoint him as our goalie savior but he looks damn good thus far. I absolutely believe he should and will be with the big club next season. Ideally, he plays himself into the 1A of a 1A/1B situation with Schneider or dare I dream...is so outstanding that he seizes the bulk of the starts altogether.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don’t think it’s any less premature then the slob jobs Carter Hart has been getting.

 

[Bleedred]

Martin Jones sucks and is going for his league leading stoppable goal #50 in his next game!

Ooops! Thought I was in the SJ Sharks Goaltender Thread!

 

[Bleedred]

The goaltending results with some of the AHL lineups we've been trotting out there for the last month+ and games like Cory played tonight (I know it's Buffalo and they have a finishing problem for years now) really confirm how bad the goaltending was earlier this year, when we had respectable lineups and were getting scored on from left, right and center.

Pretty much proves that Kinkaid just broke down at some point, because there's really no reason to believe that you can get two GOOD 40+ game seasons in back to back years from Kinkaid and Cory just looked how I'd imagine Patrick Roy to look if he reappeared in a game at his current age against NHL players of today.

 

[devilsblood]

Very encouraging what we are seeing out of Blackwood. It may be premature to anoint him as our goalie savior but he looks damn good thus far. I absolutely believe he should and will be with the big club next season. Ideally, he plays himself into the 1A of a 1A/1B situation with Schneider or dare I dream...is so outstanding that he seizes the bulk of the starts altogether.

I see it as a lock that Blackwood is in NJ next season.

But I also see it as a lock that Schneid's, if healthy, will be the starter.

Remember that Blackwood is less then a year past being demoted to the ECHL. He's 22. We can still be very bullish on his future without thinking he takes over the starting role next year. Especially with Cory looking like he has gotten healthy and is playing well.

 

[Bleedred]

I see it as a lock that Blackwood is in NJ next season.

But I also see it as a lock that Schneid's, if healthy, will be the starter.

Remember that Blackwood is less then a year past being demoted to the ECHL. He's 22. We can still be very bullish on his future without thinking he takes over the starting role next year. Especially with Cory looking like he has gotten healthy and is playing well.

I'm not 100% sure Blackwood is a lock. I could see us signing a guy like Jack Campbell to tandem with Cory. With Schneider's health the last several years, there's a pretty good chance Blackwood would get a call up and a spot on the roster soon enough.

Should Blackwood and Schneider be the tandem we start the season with, I don't agree with you that Schneider will be a lock to be the starter. I think they'll go into next year and let one of them grab it. Schneider won't be handed the starting job out of the gate.

I mean, we haven't even given either a starting role right now. One of them plays good or wins a game and we're still alternating. I don't think that will happen next year if a guy is hot, that's more for evaluation purposes this year, but I don't think of either having an edge over the other as being the starter as of right now, if this is the tandem we start the season with next year.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I see it as a lock that Blackwood is in NJ next season.

But I also see it as a lock that Schneid's, if healthy, will be the starter.

Remember that Blackwood is less then a year past being demoted to the ECHL. He's 22. We can still be very bullish on his future without thinking he takes over the starting role next year. Especially with Cory looking like he has gotten healthy and is playing well.

I don't think it will be a lock that Schneider will be the starter - in the traditional way whereby he gets 50+ starts.

I think for the rest of his career, Schneider will split starts with his backup. I think the team have realized that as Schneider gets older, injuries will become more prevalent. It is best to manage his workload with a co-no.1 arrangement during the regular season.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not 100% sure Blackwood is a lock. I could see us signing a guy like Jack Campbell to tandem with Cory. With Schneider's health the last several years, there's a pretty good chance Blackwood would get a call up and a spot on the roster soon enough.

Should Blackwood and Schneider be the tandem we start the season with, I don't agree with you that Schneider will be a lock to be the starter. I think they'll go into next year and let one of them grab it. Schneider won't be handed the starting job out of the gate.

I mean, we haven't even given either a starting role right now. One of them plays good or wins a game and we're still alternating. I don't think that will happen next year if a guy is hot, that's more for evaluation purposes this year, but I don't think of either having an edge over the other as being the starter as of right now, if this is the tandem we start the season with next year.

So you are not sure that Blackwood will make the NHL club next year, but you also think the Devils could go into next season with Blackwood and Schneid's battling for the top spot?

There is a reason, or maybe a couple, why they have alternated starts. 1)No need to overburden Cory after he has battled injuries for the previous 1.5 seasons. 2)They want to see what Blackwood has. This is seeing how capable he is in a larger sample and he has stepped up and played well.

Also consider Binghamton has been brutal on it's goalies over the last 2 years, Blackwood as an example has been much better in both the ECHL and the NHL, then he has been in the AHL, by a wide margin, over the last 2 seasons.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't think it will be a lock that Schneider will be the starter - in the traditional way whereby he gets 50+ starts.

I think for the rest of his career, Schneider will split starts with his backup. I think the team have realized that as Schneider gets older, injuries will become more prevalent. It is best to manage his workload with a co-no.1 arrangement during the regular season.

I do think one more year of sub-.910% goaltending and Schneider is more than likely bought out. That'll be 4 years consecutive years at that point, should it happen and only 2 more years on his deal, which wouldn't be the most painful thing to absorb. There's also the CBA coming up soon too. Possibly after next year.

I thought he'd probably be bought out after this year, but I think his play over the last 1.5 months saves him from that after this year. Just like Kinkaid's play over the last 6-7 weeks of last year and probably kept him from being waived to start this year and Shero signing someone else, combined with Schneider's implosion to end last year. Pretty sure he would have been waived if he finished the year sub-.900% and we missed the playoffs.

 

[Bleedred]

So you are not sure that Blackwood will make the NHL club next year, but you also think the Devils could go into next season with Blackwood and Schneid's battling for the top spot?

There is a reason, or maybe a couple, why they have alternated starts. 1)No need to overburden Cory after he has battled injuries for the previous 1.5 seasons. 2)They want to see what Blackwood has. This is seeing how capable he is in a larger sample and he has stepped up and played well.

Also consider Binghamton has been brutal on it's goalies over the last 2 years, Blackwood as an example has been much better in both the ECHL and the NHL, then he has been in the AHL, by a wide margin, over the last 2 seasons.

That's right, I'm not sure Blackwood is a lock. With all the public criticisms Shero had of goaltending this year (which had nothing to do with Blackwood, of course), I'm skeptical that Shero doesn't sign someone more proven to tandem with Schneider for the start of next year. I think if he can get a guy like Campbell on a one year deal, he just might do it.

Also, Hynes has not been shy about putting Cory on the bench, going as far back as the 16-17 season, when Kinkaid would get thrown starts that he normally probably wouldn't have before that season. So I expect if Cory isn't playing well next year at any point, he won't hesitate to go with the other guy, whoever that might be. Whether it's Blackwood or some guy he signs.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't think it will be a lock that Schneider will be the starter - in the traditional way whereby he gets 50+ starts.

I think for the rest of his career, Schneider will split starts with his backup. I think the team have realized that as Schneider gets older, injuries will become more prevalent. It is best to manage his workload with a co-no.1 arrangement during the regular season.

I agree they would give Blackwood a pretty decent share of the starts, to keep Cory fresh and healthy, and also to keep Blackwood busy and keep his development moving fwd, but Cory would be the #1.

I could see a 50-32 type of split.

 

[devilsblood]

That's right, I'm not sure Blackwood is a lock. With all the public criticisms Shero had of goaltending this year (which had nothing to do with Blackwood, of course), I'm skeptical that Shero doesn't sign someone more proven to tandem with Schneider for the start of next year. I think if he can get a guy like Campbell on a one year deal, he just might do it.

Also, Hynes has not been shy about putting Cory on the bench, going as far back as the 16-17 season, when Kinkaid would get thrown starts that he normally probably wouldn't have before that season. So I expect if Cory isn't playing well next year at any point, he won't hesitate to go with the other guy, whoever that might be. Whether it's Blackwood or some guy he signs.

A)You don't think Campbell get's a better oppurtunity then a one year deal with a team where we have a high priced goalie who finished this year off very strong, and we also have a recent high draft pick who himself had a good looking rookie season?

B)Sure Hynes has been quick to bench Cory when Cory's play has warranted it, but he has also been willing to ride Cory heavy when Cory's play has warranted it.

We all speculated that Cory's regression in play was injury related, certainly in the 2nd half of last year and the early part of this year, but the 2nd half of this season, when it looks like Cory is healthy, he is back to playing at a high level.

 

[devilsblood]

I do think one more year of sub-.910% goaltending and Schneider is more than likely bought out. That'll be 4 years consecutive years at that point, should it happen and only 2 more years on his deal, which wouldn't be the most painful thing to absorb. There's also the CBA coming up soon too. Possibly after next year.

I thought he'd probably be bought out after this year, but I think his play over the last 1.5 months saves him from that after this year. Just like Kinkaid's play over the last 6-7 weeks of last year and probably kept him from being waived to start this year and Shero signing someone else, combined with Schneider's implosion to end last year. Pretty sure he would have been waived if he finished the year sub-.900% and we missed the playoffs.

Given his poor play was likely related to the injury, I never figured this to be a real option.

Cory rebounded this year, but it was also possible that Cory continued to struggle this year, but got healthy over the offseason and rebounded next season. Given there was little benefit to buying out Cory this upcoming offseason rather then next offseason why not wait until next season to see if Cory could regain his form.

 

[Bleedred]

I agree they would give Blackwood a pretty decent share of the starts, to keep Cory fresh and healthy, and also to keep Blackwood busy and keep his development moving fwd, but Cory would be the #1.

I could see a 50-32 type of split.

And what if Cory plays a sub-.910% goalie again, but Blackwood is playing better in your scenario? Would Cory still play 50 games? Because I'm still skeptical he'd be better than a .905%-.908% goalie if he played 50 games in a year and I think that means we're missing the playoffs again if he does play 50 games.

At least if he plays in that same neighborhood like he has the last 3 years.

A)You don't think Campbell get's a better oppurtunity then a one year deal with a team where we have a high priced goalie who finished this year off very strong, and we also have a recent high draft pick who himself had a good looking rookie season?

B)Sure Hynes has been quick to bench Cory when Cory's play has warranted it, but he has also been willing to ride Cory heavy when Cory's play has warranted it.

We all speculated that Cory's regression in play was injury related, certainly in the 2nd half of last year and the early part of this year, but the 2nd half of this season, when it looks like Cory is healthy, he is back to playing at a high level.

Campbell may get better than a one year deal, especially with how horrendous Quick has been on the same team. He may get a two year deal or three years if someone really likes him, but it probably won't be for huge money.

And as far as Cory playing at a high level, is it possible he also may look and play better as a backup (even if it's a highly used backup) than the starter? Kinkaid definitely looked better as a backup than he did as a starter.

 

[MadDevil]

There's also the fact that Cory seems to be injury prone the last few years, so having an experienced #3 wouldn't be a bad idea. Lack was that guy, but I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with him being that guy next year.

 

[devilsblood]

And what if Cory plays a sub-.910% goalie again, but Blackwood is playing better in your scenario? Would Cory still play 50 games? Because I'm still skeptical he'd be better than a .905%-.908% goalie if he played 50 games in a year and I think that means we're missing the playoffs again if he does play 50 games.

At least if he plays in that same neighborhood like he has the last 3 years.


Campbell may get better than a one year deal, especially with how horrendous Quick has been on the same team. He may get a two year deal or three years if someone really likes him, but it probably won't be for huge money.

And as far as Cory playing at a high level, is it possible he also may look and play better as a backup (even if it's a highly used backup) than the starter? Kinkaid definitely looked better as a backup than he did as a starter.

As the season progresses and if Blackwood outperforms Cory then sure I could see him taking over as the #1. But that is looking pretty far ahead, to start next season I expect Cory as the #1 and Blackwood as the #2.

As per what we should expect from Cory? Your expectations are based on recent seasons where his #'s were clearly influenced by injury, presumably one single injury, where the injury itself derailed last season, while the slow recovery greatly effected this season. Early last season he was excellent, late this season he has been very good.


So imo, it's clear if Cory can stay healthy he still has the ability to play at a high level. Now he does need to stay healthy, but I'm not sure the one injury is reason to believe the rest of his career will be injury riddled.

 

[devilsblood]

There's also the fact that Cory seems to be injury prone the last few years, so having an experienced #3 wouldn't be a bad idea. Lack was that guy, but I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with him being that guy next year.

Kind of mentioned it above, but has he been injury prone, or was it one injury which he tried to battle through, and then took awhiles to recover from after the remediating surgery?

 

[MadDevil]

Kind of mentioned it above, but has he been injury prone, or was it one injury which he tried to battle through, and then took awhiles to recover from the remediating surgery?

That's a fair point. It might just be the combination of butterfly goalie + hip issue + 32 year old that concerns me. But Rinne had the same surgery a few years ago and seems fine, so hopefully Cory follows a similar path.

 

[Bleedred]

As the season progresses and if Blackwood outperforms Cory then sure I could see him taking over as the #1. But that is looking pretty far ahead, to start next season I expect Cory as the #1 and Blackwood as the #2.

As per what we should expect from Cory? Your expectations are based on recent seasons where his #'s were clearly influenced by injury, presumably one single injury, where the injury itself derailed last season, while the slow recovery greatly effected this season. Early last season he was excellent, late this season he has been very good.


So imo, it's clear if Cory can stay healthy he still has the ability to play at a high level. Now he does need to stay healthy, but I'm not sure the one injury is reason to believe the rest of his career will be injury riddled.

It was multiple injuries though. The hip has only been an issue since late in the 2017 calendar.

Actually, maybe that's not the case. Maybe it has been acting up longer than that, but there was at least one other ailment before that. He had knee surgery (I think? Or somewhere on the leg) after the 15-16 season and there was also talk of groin issues in 16-17 season or maybe that offseason in 2017.

Now, I'm not pointing these out to say that means he'll develop even more injuries, just pointing them out because you ''Presumably one single injury'' over the last several years or since his poor seasons started and that's not the case.

 

[devilsblood]

It was multiple injuries though. The hip has only been an issue since late in the 2017 calendar.

Actually, maybe that's not the case. Maybe it has been acting up longer than that, but there was at least one other ailment before that. He had knee surgery (I think? Or somewhere on the leg) after the 15-16 season and there was also talk of groin issues in 16-17 season or maybe that offseason in 2017.

Now, I'm not pointing these out to say that means he'll develop even more injuries, just pointing them out because you ''Presumably one single injury'' over the last several years or since his poor seasons started and that's not the case.

I think last season and this season is pretty clear one injury. Was there something going on in 16-17? I think it is very possible given the dip in #'s. Was it the hip? Could a groin be a hip in disguise? Not sure when the knee surgery was.

Still the bulk of the injury concerns seem to be one injury.

 

[Bleedred]

I think last season and this season is pretty clear one injury. Was there something going on in 16-17? I think it is very possible given the dip in #'s. Was it the hip? Could a groin be a hip in disguise? Not sure when the knee surgery was.

Still the bulk of the injury concerns seem to be one injury.

The only reason I pointed out other injuries was because the decline in play started in 16-17. The very next year after he left a game injured with his knee and missed about a month (I don't even know if that's what he had post-season surgery on in 2016) and after having that surgery on his knee or leg. I'll have to look up with that was.

I'm seeing his 2016 surgery was just for a ''Core muscle injury''. That may be where the groin stuff started, but they were calling his hip injury a groin injury in February of 2018 too.

 

[BahlDeep]

When you see such a major discrepancy in Cory's stats between the beginning of this year and since his return on Feb 7th, the only conclusion you can draw (and just by watching him), something was bothering him. There's nothing indicating otherwise

He's been absolutely fantastic, facing on average around 31.5 shots a game. Hopefully he remains healthy and continue to play like we all know he can

 

[Cage Helmet]

When you see such a major discrepancy in Cory's stats between the beginning of this year and since his return on Feb 7th, the only conclusion you can draw (and just by watching him), something was bothering him. There's nothing indicating otherwise

He's been absolutely fantastic, facing on average around 31.5 shots a game. Hopefully he remains healthy and continue to play like we all know he can

Need more than 15 contests to compile and bring us a true indicator but he’s looking noticeably quicker than he did before his last injury. And more square to shots. I don’t expect him him to return to elite status of play from his 20’s. Can’t expect that out of a 33 YO player at any position. I’m hopeful he can be somewhat decent going forward and we’ll see what next campaign brings. That will give us a better understanding of If the one big injury hampered performances for almost 3 seasons or if they’re still lingering and causing a definite decline. I do expect a decline of sorts because players drop off by 33 and mostly before. Only a question of how much of a decline.

 

[BahlDeep]

Need more than 15 contests to compile and bring us a true indicator but he’s looking noticeably quicker than he did before his last injury. And more square to shots. I don’t expect him him to return to elite status of play from his 20’s. Can’t expect that out of a 33 YO player at any position. I’m hopeful he can be somewhat decent going forward and we’ll see what next campaign brings. That will give us a better understanding of If the one big injury hampered performances for almost 3 seasons or if they’re still lingering and causing a definite decline. I do expect a decline of sorts because players drop off by 33 and mostly before. Only a question of how much of a decline.

If he can provide us .915-920 next year, it should be just enough. That's where I expect him to be. The optimist in me is hoping for .925+