I cannot wait until CTV gets the rights so they can preempt their games with American Idol. Sadly that would be the only way to get people to respect the CBC.
The NHL, The TV deal and Canadians
- Thread starter Melrose Munch
- Start date
jessebelanger
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2009
- 2,361
- 4
Right - because no one in Canada watches TSN or CBC to see American teams play, only Canadian.
I, for example, tuned into the WSH and NY game last night on TSN to see two great Canadian teams face off!
I guess if you lived there, Hockey Night in Toronto would seem awesome. The ignorance of MacLean, Cherry and co. about the league in general is also awesome.
I don't think it works that way. National TV revenue is split equally among all thirty teams.
OthmarAmmann
Omnishambles
Oh yeah, it might seem odd but believe me there's a ton of crazies out there known as NBA, CFL/NFL and other fans.
Canada is also home to a large immigration influx every year and most of those immigrants aren't coming from hockey mad countries.
I would guess the NHL isn't far ahead of, or possibly even trails, the NFL in popularity in some parts of the country. I also believe the NHL will continue to lose ground to the NFL in Canada.
Shawa666
Registered User
I know, And that wasn't the point of my post. It was a comparison of what the canadian side brougt to the fund per team and the same on the american side.
Which is even more ridiculous when you couldn't possibly make it a fair comparison.
The Shrike
Registered User
By that logic Mexico city would be the perfect market to expand to. Just think, a massive potential tv audience, very few of which are currently hockey fans, what more could the progressive league watcher ask for.
The odds are very high that CTV/TSN will make a bid together while CBC will probably join up with Rogers to make a bid together. CBC needs a cable partner if it goes out for bidding since they will be hard pressed to compete with any bid that CTV makes. The only reason that CTV and TSN didn't make a bid together the last time was that the rights never went out for bidding. The NHL didn't want to leave CBC and they found a suitable deal with the CBC and extended their contract. The CBC has to do that again. The NHL has been loyal to the CBC and vice versa. That loyalty paid off for CBC during the last negotiations and they need it to happen again. Otherwise, they probably need help. I'm not sure CBC has the money to compete with CTV assuming CTV wants the rights that badly. Perhaps they don't and that's just speculation.
You're right that CTV has a serious scheduling issue outside of Saturday nights. I'm not sure how they would juggle their programming during the playoffs. The launch of TSN2 helps alleviate that and they could always use the A Channel or other cable networks to deal with conflicts. Either way, the Canadian broadcast negotiations will be very interesting just because of CBC's history with the NHL. I suppose they could go old school and have games on both CBC and CTV like they did in the mid 80's.
Roughneck
Registered User
CBC may not be able to match the bid, but I also don't think Globemedia has the ability to bid enough to take the market for themselves. Even if CBC offers the same they do now they'd be able to keep Saturday nights but would probably lose the Conference and Stanley Cup Finals and the better picks for the first two rounds if CTV get involved as well.
Globemedia is probably willing to overpay to get those rights away, but by how much I wonder because those are the only things that the CBC is willing to try and overpay for as well. I could very well see the Canadian TV deal being worth $300M at the end of all this (~$200M from CTV/TSN for the weekdays and the better playoff package/SCF, ~$100M from CBC for Saturdays and playoffs). The battle is too expensive to be the only national provider, just to be the premier one.
I don't think Rogers really has a horse in this race. They'll continue to be able to have something of a monopoly on the regional rights but with what CBC and CTV/TSN should be willing to pay I doubt the NHL really needs to listen to any offers beyond being able to put more regional rights games on national Sportsnet One.
berklon
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2008
- 1,544
- 360
That's the playoffs... they can't help it if there are series that feature no Canadian teams.
How about regular season? Most times CBC and TSN games feature at least one Canadian team in the game.
Just like how everyone says to get a major US TV contract, they'll need American teams - CBC and TSN aren't going to pay anywhere near what they're paying now if they can't feature Canadian teams. So the 6 Canadian teams are the reason why the league gets good money from the Canadian TV deals - without them, they'd just get a fraction of the money.
Disagree. If it was just Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, TSN would still give the same money.
The fact that CBC's former sports head, Scott Moore is now running Rogers Sports makes me think that somehow, they will be involved in bidding for NHL rights or they are at least considering making a run. I think Sportsnet One was the beginning of that. I don't think Moore is there to run regional sports. Also Keith Pelley who was a former head at TSN is now with Rogers. There's always the possibility that Bell and Rogers could team up as they did for the Olympics.
Regardless of what happens, the best outcome for CBC is that it never goes up for bidding. They wouldn't have to worry about sharing anything, partnering up or flat out losing the league. Hopefully, loyalty still counts for something and CBC at least gets a share of the rights. Maybe the league will throw CBC a bone and keep cable and broadcast bidding separate. That would probably deter CTV.
CBC, TSN and it's advertisers, don't care about U S viewers.....Back at ya
600,000 tune in to watch a Leafs game in the GTA. There are probably 3 million households in the GTA . I'd say there is plenty room for growth.
Roughneck
Registered User
I think the main reason I'm skeptical is because Sportsnet One is still a tier or two below TSN and TSN2 and even the regional Sportsnet channels. It could be a very real possibility but I'd say Rogers is a distant third. Plus I just don't like Sportsnet or the people on it.
I think the only bone the NHL would throw at them is letting them keep regular season Saturday nights for a reasonable amount and then let everything else go up for open bidding. I can see why the league went the route they did last time but they should know just how much money is to be made in 2014 with an open bid with just how much Bell would like to take over.
Or they'd tell CBC they could 'get the same deal for X dollars, otherwise it will go to open bid.'
Amazing...especially when considering the NFL isn't in a single Canadian city, coupled with the existence of the CFL.
Darlotto99
Registered User
I think the rights will stay the same with CBC and TSN getting the rights again I don't think Rogers with take the rights away from TSN. TSN is too valuable of a partner for the NHL.
It depends where you are. in Parts of Eastern Canada, Like Ontario and the Mari times the NFL is a close second or third after the Jays. The alouettes have had a resurgence in Montreal but prior to their move the NY Jets had a base of support in that city. Western Canada is wholly CFL, but even that was recent.
Yeah, like Melrose said, it depends where you are. I'm from Newfoundland and I've never seen an actual football field in my life, the sport is non existant here. I have never met someone who considered football their #1 sport. Here its hockey, soccer (europe, not MLS) and baseball.
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have a fairly large football following which I would guess is well behind baseball except for the larger centres. If Halifax or Moncton get a CFL team I would expect that football would become big in those areas but its never going to pass hockey. Halifax is the only city in atlantic canada which see's any sizeable immigration from abroad. That's really the only eastern market thats "up for grabs" so to speak, for either the NFL, CFL or NHL.
The major cities in Central and Western Canada see a large influx of immigrants annually, mostly from asian countries. They are a largely untapped market which is prime picking for the NHL or which ever league can capitalize on it. Sportsnet is televising Indian Cricket now because they have recognized the potential market among the immigrant population. The NHL makes boatloads in Canada as it is, they could make a ton more if they could capitalize on the growing population from foreign countries before they gravitate toward the NFL, NBA or MLB.
That article is bang on -- yes, you can get into the arguement over whether or not it will ever succeed in Phoenix (success in California & Dallas suggests it's possible, an arena in the middle of nowhere suggests it's not)... but you really can't debate whether or not the NHL needs to get the big TV deal. The United States is the most competitive sports landscape in the world. You've got the 3 traditional major leagues there (NFL, NBA, MLB) plus two rapidly growing sports in the form of MLS and UFC for hockey to compete with. In Europe, you've really only got 1 major sport (Soccer) that dominates the landscape.
Yes, you'll have some of the less-educated folks suggest a strictly northern league, but with the biggest television contracts negotiated nationally, that's going to take a huge chunk out of potential revenue.
There's no question that a Winnipeg franchise would make more money than a Phoenix franchise today, the problem is that it really doesn't add a ton to the NHL's bottom line because they'll still be a team that relies on revenue sharing (whereas Phoenix has the potential to be a league leader). Furthermore, in today's world where everything is about media rights instead ticket sales, they don't add a ton of value to the CBC contract. People in Winnipeg are going to watch HNIC regardless of whether they have a team or not. It's Canada -- we live & breathe hockey. Of course, there will be a marginal increase, but not substantial.
In Phoenix however, people aren't interested in hockey. You need a team there to grow that interest. As the 12th largest media market, their ratings are going to be extremely important in any contract negotiations with NBC.
Yes, you'll have some of the less-educated folks suggest a strictly northern league, but with the biggest television contracts negotiated nationally, that's going to take a huge chunk out of potential revenue.
There's no question that a Winnipeg franchise would make more money than a Phoenix franchise today, the problem is that it really doesn't add a ton to the NHL's bottom line because they'll still be a team that relies on revenue sharing (whereas Phoenix has the potential to be a league leader). Furthermore, in today's world where everything is about media rights instead ticket sales, they don't add a ton of value to the CBC contract. People in Winnipeg are going to watch HNIC regardless of whether they have a team or not. It's Canada -- we live & breathe hockey. Of course, there will be a marginal increase, but not substantial.
In Phoenix however, people aren't interested in hockey. You need a team there to grow that interest. As the 12th largest media market, their ratings are going to be extremely important in any contract negotiations with NBC.
Actually... they do outbid the CBC when the national contract comes up. The NHL turns them down for 2 reasons. First is their public reason being that "they have a longstanding relationship and history with CBC", not sure how much that actually affects their decision making process. The second is the competitive aspect -- HNIC is basically the lifeblood of CBC. Without NHL hockey, they're done as a major network in Canada. So while they have the built up successs so they can remain comeptitive with CTV right now, 4-5 years without NHL hockey would put them in a position where they can no longer bid for HNIC. That leaves only Rogers and CTV to bid, which should result in lower bids down the road.
dronald
Registered User
The NHL must be the only business that would rather turn away from people who crave their product for people that couldn't care less about it.
Not at all. All businesses in the world seek out how to capture a market at the least cost, while investing their assets (i.e. teams) in markets where it makes a substantial difference.
Roughneck
Registered User
But it's getting to the point where the NHL will want to cash in on this competitive aspect, and why I think they'd want to keep CBC around even if they'd let Bell take away a bigger piece of the pie (playoffs).
The requirement to get an exclusive national deal in Canada would be prohibitively high, so the battle will be over who gets to be the premiere network for hockey rather than the only one.
(I think we may find ourselves arguing in agreement).
Agreed 100%
I question that statement. I believe Winnipeg will be at least a minor net contributor to revenue sharing. Their 15,500 seat arena is equivalant to an 18,500 seat arena, with the 3,000 cheapest seats removed. Their gate will be comparable to a fully sold out 20,000 stadium in the sunbelt. None of this bull about a seat, a beer, and a hot dog for $35.
Phoenix, yes; Glendale, no. The team in Glendale is a lost cause. Putting a team in Glendale (2010 population 226,721) is just as much of a joke as moving the Leafs to Vaughan (2010 population 296,863). Relocate the Glendale franchise, and wait for Phoenix proper, or at least Scottsdale, to put up a proper NHL arena. Then try again.
There is only so much abuse that Winnipeg hockey fans will take. If Phoenix+Atlanta move to KC+Houston, CBC WILL see viewership decline for HNIT (Hockey Night In Toronto
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