Melrose Munch
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2007
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I cannot wait until CTV gets the rights so they can preempt their games with American Idol. Sadly that would be the only way to get people to respect the CBC.
Thanks for the numbers Fugu
So, quick rundown, that gives us somwhere between 27.5 to 37.5M$ per canadian team, compared to 8.3M$ per american team.
Try again Gary.
HNiC is awesome, sorry. No one does a better job framing the legend of NHL hockey.
Thanks for the numbers Fugu
So, quick rundown, that gives us somwhere between 27.5 to 37.5M$ per canadian team, compared to 8.3M$ per american team.
Try again Gary.
Oh yeah, it might seem odd but believe me there's a ton of crazies out there known as NBA, CFL/NFL and other fans.
Canada is also home to a large immigration influx every year and most of those immigrants aren't coming from hockey mad countries.
I don't think it works that way. National TV revenue is split equally among all thirty teams.
I know, And that wasn't the point of my post. It was a comparison of what the canadian side brougt to the fund per team and the same on the american side.
Is Canada's national psyche so fragile that this is really a big deal?
Hockey isn't going to grow in Canada. That's the only point here. There is no one in Canada that has never heard of hockey or might be convinced to give it a shot via exposure.
And tonight on TSN4...
Sportsnet owns regional rights, TSN and CTV don't have the capacity to show over 50 games for each of the six Canadian teams. To freeze out CBC they'd have to outbid the CBC on top of the ~$75M they're already paying. Is it worth it to TSN to be bidding an extra $150M a year (CBC pays $110M now, and it's their most/only relevant property, they wouldn't let it go cheap) just to take Saturday nights?
Even if you take the tens of millions of regional rights out of the equation to get rid of Rogers, Globemedia would have to be pushing $300M in order to get exclusive national rights in Canada.
The odds are very high that CTV/TSN will make a bid together while CBC will probably join up with Rogers to make a bid together. CBC needs a cable partner if it goes out for bidding since they will be hard pressed to compete with any bid that CTV makes. The only reason that CTV and TSN didn't make a bid together the last time was that the rights never went out for bidding. The NHL didn't want to leave CBC and they found a suitable deal with the CBC and extended their contract. The CBC has to do that again. The NHL has been loyal to the CBC and vice versa. That loyalty paid off for CBC during the last negotiations and they need it to happen again. Otherwise, they probably need help. I'm not sure CBC has the money to compete with CTV assuming CTV wants the rights that badly. Perhaps they don't and that's just speculation.
You're right that CTV has a serious scheduling issue outside of Saturday nights. I'm not sure how they would juggle their programming during the playoffs. The launch of TSN2 helps alleviate that and they could always use the A Channel or other cable networks to deal with conflicts. Either way, the Canadian broadcast negotiations will be very interesting just because of CBC's history with the NHL. I suppose they could go old school and have games on both CBC and CTV like they did in the mid 80's.
Right - because no one in Canada watches TSN or CBC to see American teams play, only Canadian.
I, for example, tuned into the WSH and NY game last night on TSN to see two great Canadian teams face off!
Disagree. If it was just Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, TSN would still give the same money.That's the playoffs... they can't help it if there are series that feature no Canadian teams.
How about regular season? Most times CBC and TSN games feature at least one Canadian team in the game.
Just like how everyone says to get a major US TV contract, they'll need American teams - CBC and TSN aren't going to pay anywhere near what they're paying now if they can't feature Canadian teams. So the 6 Canadian teams are the reason why the league gets good money from the Canadian TV deals - without them, they'd just get a fraction of the money.
CBC may not be able to match the bid, but I also don't think Globemedia has the ability to bid enough to take the market for themselves. Even if CBC offers the same they do now they'd be able to keep Saturday nights but would probably lose the Conference and Stanley Cup Finals and the better picks for the first two rounds if CTV get involved as well.
Globemedia is probably willing to overpay to get those rights away, but by how much I wonder because those are the only things that the CBC is willing to try and overpay for as well. I could very well see the Canadian TV deal being worth $300M at the end of all this (~$200M from CTV/TSN for the weekdays and the better playoff package/SCF, ~$100M from CBC for Saturdays and playoffs). The battle is too expensive to be the only national provider, just to be the premier one.
I don't think Rogers really has a horse in this race. They'll continue to be able to have something of a monopoly on the regional rights but with what CBC and CTV/TSN should be willing to pay I doubt the NHL really needs to listen to any offers beyond being able to put more regional rights games on national Sportsnet One.
Right - because no one in Canada watches TSN or CBC to see American teams play, only Canadian.
I, for example, tuned into the WSH and NY game last night on TSN to see two great Canadian teams face off!
The fact that CBC's former sports head, Scott Moore is now running Rogers Sports makes me think that somehow, they will be involved in bidding for NHL rights or they are at least considering making a run. I think Sportsnet One was the beginning of that. I don't think Moore is there to run regional sports. Also Keith Pelley who was a former head at TSN is now with Rogers. There's always the possibility that Bell and Rogers could team up as they did for the Olympics.
Regardless of what happens, the best outcome for CBC is that it never goes up for bidding. They wouldn't have to worry about sharing anything, partnering up or flat out losing the league. Hopefully, loyalty still counts for something and CBC at least gets a share of the rights. Maybe the league will throw CBC a bone and keep cable and broadcast bidding separate. That would probably deter CTV.
I would guess the NHL isn't far ahead of, or possibly even trails, the NFL in popularity in some parts of the country. I also believe the NHL will continue to lose ground to the NFL in Canada.
Amazing...especially when considering the NFL isn't in a single Canadian city, coupled with the existence of the CFL.
It depends where you are. in Parts of Eastern Canada, Like Ontario and the Mari times the NFL is a close second or third after the Jays. The alouettes have had a resurgence in Montreal but prior to their move the NY Jets had a base of support in that city. Western Canada is wholly CFL, but even that was recent.Amazing...especially when considering the NFL isn't in a single Canadian city, coupled with the existence of the CFL.
Amazing...especially when considering the NFL isn't in a single Canadian city, coupled with the existence of the CFL.
And tonight on TSN4...
Sportsnet owns regional rights, TSN and CTV don't have the capacity to show over 50 games for each of the six Canadian teams. To freeze out CBC they'd have to outbid the CBC on top of the ~$75M they're already paying. Is it worth it to TSN to be bidding an extra $150M a year (CBC pays $110M now, and it's their most/only relevant property, they wouldn't let it go cheap) just to take Saturday nights?
Even if you take the tens of millions of regional rights out of the equation to get rid of Rogers, Globemedia would have to be pushing $300M in order to get exclusive national rights in Canada.
That article is bang on -- yes, you can get into the arguement over whether or not it will ever succeed in Phoenix (success in California & Dallas suggests it's possible, an arena in the middle of nowhere suggests it's not)... but you really can't debate whether or not the NHL needs to get the big TV deal. The United States is the most competitive sports landscape in the world. You've got the 3 traditional major leagues there (NFL, NBA, MLB) plus two rapidly growing sports in the form of MLS and UFC for hockey to compete with. In Europe, you've really only got 1 major sport (Soccer) that dominates the landscape.
Yes, you'll have some of the less-educated folks suggest a strictly northern league, but with the biggest television contracts negotiated nationally, that's going to take a huge chunk out of potential revenue.
There's no question that a Winnipeg franchise would make more money than a Phoenix franchise today, the problem is that it really doesn't add a ton to the NHL's bottom line because they'll still be a team that relies on revenue sharing (whereas Phoenix has the potential to be a league leader). Furthermore, in today's world where everything is about media rights instead ticket sales, they don't add a ton of value to the CBC contract. People in Winnipeg are going to watch HNIC regardless of whether they have a team or not. It's Canada -- we live & breathe hockey. Of course, there will be a marginal increase, but not substantial.
In Phoenix however, people aren't interested in hockey. You need a team there to grow that interest. As the 12th largest media market, their ratings are going to be extremely important in any contract negotiations with NBC.
The NHL must be the only business that would rather turn away from people who crave their product for people that couldn't care less about it.
Actually... they do outbid the CBC when the national contract comes up. The NHL turns them down for 2 reasons. First is their public reason being that "they have a longstanding relationship and history with CBC", not sure how much that actually affects their decision making process. The second is the competitive aspect -- HNIC is basically the lifeblood of CBC. Without NHL hockey, they're done as a major network in Canada. So while they have the built up successs so they can remain comeptitive with CTV right now, 4-5 years without NHL hockey would put them in a position where they can no longer bid for HNIC. That leaves only Rogers and CTV to bid, which should result in lower bids down the road.
Agreed 100%There's no question that a Winnipeg franchise would make more money than a Phoenix franchise today
I question that statement. I believe Winnipeg will be at least a minor net contributor to revenue sharing. Their 15,500 seat arena is equivalant to an 18,500 seat arena, with the 3,000 cheapest seats removed. Their gate will be comparable to a fully sold out 20,000 stadium in the sunbelt. None of this bull about a seat, a beer, and a hot dog for $35.the problem is that it really doesn't add a ton to the NHL's bottom line because they'll still be a team that relies on revenue sharing
Phoenix, yes; Glendale, no. The team in Glendale is a lost cause. Putting a team in Glendale (2010 population 226,721) is just as much of a joke as moving the Leafs to Vaughan (2010 population 296,863). Relocate the Glendale franchise, and wait for Phoenix proper, or at least Scottsdale, to put up a proper NHL arena. Then try again.(whereas Phoenix has the potential to be a league leader).
There is only so much abuse that Winnipeg hockey fans will take. If Phoenix+Atlanta move to KC+Houston, CBC WILL see viewership decline for HNIT (Hockey Night In Toronto )Furthermore, in today's world where everything is about media rights instead ticket sales, they don't add a ton of value to the CBC contract. People in Winnipeg are going to watch HNIC regardless of whether they have a team or not. It's Canada -- we live & breathe hockey.