Rumor: The never-ending Myers rumors

[ZeroPT*]

On what planet do Ennis and Foligno have comparable trade value?

I wouldn't be shocked if GM's think Foligno has value. They have boners over players with his size and at his age.

 

[1972]

nonsense.

TOI/60
Myers 18.35
OEL 17.33

+- Rel
0.82
0.39

+- QoC
0.054
0.037

Corsi Rel QoC
1.103
1.41

Corsi QoC
2.334
1.386

+- QoT
-0.076
0.149

Corsi Rel QoT
0.196
1.984

Corsi QoT
-26.498
-1.566

Off Zone Start %
34.7
44.8

GF On/60
1.9
2.18

GA On/60
2.59
2.89

+- On/60
-0.68
-0.71

This doesn't prove who the better player is, this is the exact same thing you did to me last year when I told you Johansen was better then Couturier. These stats are not the end all, they are only part of the picture.

 

[Jame]

This doesn't prove who the better player is, this is the exact same thing you did to me last year when I told you Johansen was better then Couturier. These stats are not the end all, they are only part of the picture.

What proves who the better player is?

It's context.
Myers and OEL are both on terrible teams
Myers and OEL are both playing top minutes/situations
Myers plays tougher minutes/situations and he yields less goals against,
OEL plays more offensive minutes/situations and he produces a bit more offense
the difference between the two, gf/ga differential, is negligible.




*there was a little more context to the Johansen/Couturier conversation.

 

[Fly Boy]

Myers for Dekeyser and Pulkinnen is the worst trade proposal this board has seen since "4 First rounders for Brassard"

At least you're willing to make fun of yourself.

And as someone who lives in Michigan and sees plenty of Detroit and Grand Rapids games, I would scream bloody ******* murder. That deal is awful for Myers. I'm in the camp of 'Just keep him'. Don't screw around with this anymore, he should be here long term.

 

[stokes84]

Myers on ice save % is also ridiculously high, while OELs is ridiculously low. Myers on ice shooting percentage is also very high while OELs is very low. Those GF/GA stats reflect the goaltending and puck luck each has had. OEL is a much better player.

 

[stokes84]

Team building. Stokes please. OEL for Reinhardt gets us where? What does it do for us?

Assuming we get McEichel, that gives us 4 ELC centermen. Flipping one for a no.1 defenseman is the essence of team building. McEichel is obviously not being traded. Grigorenko doesn't have enough value. So that leaves Girgensons and Reinhart as possible trade chips to get a no. 1. Of course, you have to believe in Grigorenko, or else he is a lost prospect.

 

[Husko]

Myers on ice save % is also ridiculously high, while OELs is ridiculously low. Myers on ice shooting percentage is also very high while OELs is very low. Those GF/GA stats reflect the goaltending and puck luck each has had. OEL is a much better player.

The ability of the players in front of you affects the save% you know

 

[Zip15]

The ability of the players in front of you affects the save% you know

Let's cut to the chase: OEL is a better defenseman than Myers, and significantly so. Can we agree on that much?

 

[Husko]

Let's cut to the chase: OEL is a better defenseman than Myers, and significantly so. Can we agree on that much?

He's better offensively, Myers is better defensively, can we agree on that much?

 

[SamuraiArt]

Assuming we get McEichel, that gives us 4 ELC centermen. Flipping one for a no.1 defenseman is the essence of team building. McEichel is obviously not being traded. Grigorenko doesn't have enough value. So that leaves Girgensons and Reinhart as possible trade chips to get a no. 1. Of course, you have to believe in Grigorenko, or else he is a lost prospect.

Grigorenko is clearly the odd man out in the situation you describe. I'd rather add one of our many picks to the Grigs package than trade Reinhart. Murray trading Reinhart is beyond unlikely, whatever the package in return might be.

 

[Zip15]

He's better offensively, Myers is better defensively, can we agree on that much?

I can't agree with that. I haven't watched the 'Yotes a ton this season, but I went to a few games over the last couple seasons (parents live in AZ and have partial seasons), and I walked away thinking that OEL is one of the best defensemen I've ever seen play in-person--and I watched them more when they were relevant. Everything about his game is world class.

 

[1972]

He's better offensively, Myers is better defensively, can we agree on that much?

No, and I cannot believe we are even having a debate about Myers being as good as OEL. It's so obvious just from watching the two they are on different levels.

 

[Beerz]

Let's cut to the chase: OEL is a better defenseman than Myers, and significantly so. Can we agree on that much?

Not even close. OEL is superior.

 

[TehDoak]

On what planet do Ennis and Foligno have comparable trade value?

Depends on what Winnipeg Values:

You've got a 25 year old one dimensional secondary player. Ennis will get you 20+ goals, 50-60 points on a decent season.

Or you've got a 23 year old 6'3'' winger who has shown flashes of offense but hasn't put it together yet. Is decent defensively and can physical.

It's hard to judge either on their merits the last two years just because the team has been so putrid all around. You'll get more offense out of Ennis, but, I think you'd win more games with Foligno.

1.). I don't think DeKeyser is a major downgrade from Myers. Small, not major. I think Pulkkinen more than makes up the difference.

2.). Maloney has said OEL is available. How committed to Auston Matthews are they? Admittedly, my proposal was way off. They would probably ask for Samson, which I would strongly consider.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...-be-up-for-grabs-as-coyotes-take-a-step-back/

3.). The stated price isn't neccesarily what they will get. The 2nd will be the 31st or 32nd pick, may as well be a 1st. What are their motivations? Do they want to get to the playoffs this year? Then they probably take a rental, a high pick and a good prospect. If not, more teams will drive the price up in the offseason. All depends on motivation.

1) Oh lawd. I like Dekayser, but he's a massive step down. He's more comparable to Jorges than he is to Myers. Pulkkinen is a good offensive prospect....but he's no where near to filling the value gap that would push a deal for myers.

2) Ha. His comments are basically the same every last place GM will say. "We're a last place team, everyone is available" OEL is about as available as Myers. Which is to say he isn't unless you want to gut your roster to get him. Giving up Reinhart for OEL might make us better next year, but it would defeat the purpose of the rebuild.

3) If Kane goes for a Rental, a prospect, and a 2nd rounder, regardless of position, their GM should be fired and kicked to the curb. Better to just acquire some rentals now via other assets and recoup those assets in a kane trade later if he can't get the value he wants.

 

[Jame]

Myers on ice save % is also ridiculously high, while OELs is ridiculously low. Myers on ice shooting percentage is also very high while OELs is very low. Those GF/GA stats reflect the goaltending and puck luck each has had. OEL is a much better player.

let's not attribute any of that to them though

count me in what seems to be the minority here. I don't think OEL is a "much" better player.

If I had the choice between the 2 of them, I'd choose OEL. But the separation is not that much...

The funniest takeaway from the tank, is how stupid the Sabres fan base got in regards to Myers. Missing out completely on how much he's developed and solidified himself as a bonafide shutdown defensemen.

 

[Jame]

Assuming we get McEichel, that gives us 4 ELC centermen. Flipping one for a no.1 defenseman is the essence of team building. McEichel is obviously not being traded. Grigorenko doesn't have enough value. So that leaves Girgensons and Reinhart as possible trade chips to get a no. 1. Of course, you have to believe in Grigorenko, or else he is a lost prospect.

let's find another GM that believes in Grigorenko, instead of trading the #2 overall pick of last year's draft

 

[stokes84]

How does trading Samson for OEL defeat the purpose of the rebuild?

Imagine this defense:

OEL- Risto
Zadorov - Dekeyser
Gorges - Pysyk

Average age: 23.333 years old.

That's a pretty amazing defense moving forward.

And you still have three super talented ELC centermen in McEichel, Girgensons and Grigorenko.

 

[Jame]

How does trading Samson for OEL defeat the purpose of the rebuild?

Imagine this defense:

OEL- Risto
Zadorov - Dekeyser
Gorges - Pysyk

Average age: 23.333 years old.

That's a pretty amazing defense moving forward.

And you still have three super talented ELC centermen in McEichel, Girgensons and Grigorenko.

it seems like an exercise in trading players you don't like (Reinhart, Myers... don't deny it).

 

[stokes84]

let's find another GM that believes in Grigorenko, instead of trading the #2 overall pick of last year's draft

We always knew that accumulating this much young talent meant that someone was going to get flipped. I don't see why people are so afraid of the possibility.

 

[stokes84]

it seems like an exercise in trading players you don't like (Reinhart, Myers... don't deny it).

I love Reinhart. I don't really care for Myers because I don't think he's that good. I just want to get better.

 

[Jame]

We always knew that accumulating this much young talent meant that someone was going to get flipped. I don't see why people are so afraid of the possibility.

im not even remotely afraid of the possibility of Reinhart being traded...

im not afraid of Myers being traded either, because if he is it's going to be for in a deal that benefits buffalo, not one in which we give away a top pair defender for a 2nd pair defender and a guy who is an AHL/NHL tweener.

 

[Jame]

I love Reinhart. I don't really care for Myers because I don't think he's that good. I just want to get better.

you love Ennis, which is why you've proposed zero trades involving him and why you criticize every trade proposal that includes him.

you're pretty wishy-washy on reinhart.

 

[stokes84]

you love Ennis, which is why you've proposed zero trades involving him and why you criticize every trade proposal that includes him.

you're pretty wishy-washy on reinhart.

It's about organizational depth and who can be flipped to really gain something. 4 ELC centermen affords an opportunity worth exploring, IMO.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

let's not attribute any of that to them though

count me in what seems to be the minority here. I don't think OEL is a "much" better player.

If I had the choice between the 2 of them, I'd choose OEL. But the separation is not that much...

The funniest takeaway from the tank, is how stupid the Sabres fan base got in regards to Myers. Missing out completely on how much he's developed and solidified himself as a bonafide shutdown defensemen.

But Myers would be at best a #4 on a good team...

 

[TehDoak]

How does trading Samson for OEL defeat the purpose of the rebuild?

Imagine this defense:

OEL- Risto
Zadorov - Dekeyser
Gorges - Pysyk

Average age: 23.333 years old.

That's a pretty amazing defense moving forward.

And you still have three super talented ELC centermen in McEichel, Girgensons and Grigorenko.

I'd prefer OEL to Myers.

Now, if there was a way to swap OEL for Myers....I'd be for it. Let's do it today. Heck, I'd even add one of our late firsts to make that swap.

But,

Moving out reinhart at this juncture is robbing our center depth to improve our defense slightly.

Sure that's a good defense. But, remember when Nashville had Suter-Weber, Josi-Klein?...

They didn't have any centers or consistent offense. You're banking on Grigerenko becoming a consistent top 6 center and us getting one of McDavid/Eichel. Neither one of those is a sure thing.

If we are here in 3 years, Grigerenko is putting up 60 points a season, we have one of McDavid/Eichel and they are producing at franchise forward pace, Ok, maybe we look at moving out Reinhart to balance out or D.

But, moving Reinhart to get OEL is re-arranging the foundation while the cement is still wet.