The money was NOT wisely spent

[Balthazar]

I see that some of you want to dismantle the core, trading Barrie or Duchene...but they aren't the problem.

Take a deep look at the UFA's that the AVS have signed in recent years (with cap hit).

Iggy (5.3M), Beauch (4.5M), Tangs (3.5M), Stuart (3.6M), Soderberg (4.75M), Comeau (2.4M)

Most (all?) of these guys have little to no future with the team. All that while losing Stastny and ROR for financial reasons makes no sense whatsoever. The problem is CLEARLY bad management.

edit: I wanted to post this in the poll thread

Click to read more...

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

We traded for Tanguay and it was basically cap dump(Jones is worse than Tanguay.) I personally love that trade. Tanguay even at his worst is better than Jones.

Comeau has been disappointing for sure. First few games he look like he could be upgrade over McGinn, but It looks like he can't really produce anything..

Iginla, he's doing exactly what he was signed to do: score goals. No complaints here. If you expected more, you're thinking Iginla of 5 years or more. This is different Iginla, but we have gotten exactly what we hoped for.

Beauch. I think he's been very solid. What's the problem? I like this signing. He is clearly upgrade over Hejda. Big upgrade imo.

Stuart? He is garbage, especially for his price. He should have never been re-signed. You're right on that.

Soderberg? I agree, It looks like his playing style doesnt really fit this team. He likes to cycle the puck, but who can he do that with? No one. He fit better Boston Bruins style, not ours.


Overall? It's not too bad to be honest. You have to also count in our core players contracts, what do you think about Duchene, Landeskog, EJ and Varly contracts? GREAT GREAT signings..

I think they have build this team to right direction. I see a lot of potential, but some of our players are still too young to produce in NHL, but there's a lot of potential. In few years this should be one of the best teams in NHL. I hope we get great pick this season and draft something really good again.

 

[Balthazar]

Overall? It's not too bad to be honest.

It's really bad and you explained why yourself here:

I think they have build this team to right direction. I see a lot of potential, but some of our players are still too young to produce in NHL

If you sign the likes of Iggy, Beauchemin and Stuart (old players for a lot of money) it's to win NOW. It doesn't make sense to sign them if you have too many young players to "win now" (as you clearly stated). You should spend that money on younger players such as O'Reilly and possibly Stastny if you plan to win later.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

It's really bad and you explained why yourself here:



If you sign the likes of Iggy, Beauchemin and Stuart (old players for a lot of money) it's to win NOW. It doesn't make sense to sign them if you have too many young players to "win now" (as you clearly stated) you spend that money on younger players such as O'Reilly and possibly Stastny.

We had to sign someone to play those roles. You can't just throw Rantanen in your top-6 and hope you make playoffs. Obviously Roy wanted this team to make playoffs, but it looks like another failed season. I'm sure they were hoping to make playoffs. I doubt they were expecting to win the Stanley Cup this season, but playoffs yes. Sometimes you need to sign some stop-gaps. It's okay in my mind. Also we can probably trade Iginla for decent value @trade deadline.

 

[Balthazar]

We had to sign someone to play those roles. You can't just throw Rantanen in your top-6 and hope you make playoffs..

We HAD them already! When you look at these numbers for Iggy and all, do you think that ROR ar 7.5M was bad? Go ask the Buffalo board if they think that it's worth it. ROR is so good already that he's seen like some sort of God over there. We signed Iggy and Soderberg to save a couple of millions (ie: peanuts) over Stastny and ROR. There's no way to excuse that.

 

[Nzap]

We HAD them already! When you look at these numbers for Iggy and all, do you think that ROR ar 7.5M was bad? Go ask the Buffalo board if they think that it's worth it. ROR is so good already that he's seen like some sort of God over there. We signed Iggy and Soderberg to save a couple of millions (ie: peanuts) over Stastny and ROR. There's no way to excuse that.

Not signing ROR there is a good excuse.

Stastny I agree with, unless he wouldn't sign for the same amount as with the Blues.
Obviously we don't know if he would've stayed with that same contract here as he got with the Blues.

 

[shadow1]

Guys get overpaid in free agency. The two I have a problem with are Stuart (who is clearly done - and that's when he's healthy enough to play) and Soderberg.

Is there any argument against Soderberg not being Colorado's worst player this season (in terms of salary and expectations)?

He's a team worst -9 (then next guy is -4), he's provided very little offense, and is so bad at faceoffs he usually lines up as a winger.

 

[shadow1]

But I don't think Paul Stastny was the answer. He was a lightning rod when he was here because of how erratic his offense was/is.

He was supposed to be the player that put St. Louis over the top, but he played on their third line most of last season. Despite $7 million annually, he only produced 46 points and 1 playoff point. If he had re-signed with the Avalanche and had that kind of production, he'd be nailed to the cross.

Stastny would undoubtedly make the Avalanche a better team, but for the kind of money he commanded, was he a great long term solution?

 

[trip trancid]

Meh, there are a couple that I don't like but many of these were not intended to be long term solutions. I think the front office has taken the position that, instead of paying Stastny 7+ million for longer term, they can sign Iginla for around 5 with shorter term. Let's not forget Stastny also had the nickname ghost, meanwhile Iginla's pretty steady from year to year. It's just that he wasn't a fit with Duchene and they went with that pairing way too long. But I'm ok with the rationale from management, at least what I'm inferring.

Same with Soderberg. Instead of paying OReilly 7.5, they chose to pay. OReilly lite less than 5. Not horrible except this could backfire because I'm not even sure he's OReilly lite. I agree about his playing style. I think he's best suited for a change of pace line where they can put all the old men. I'm not sure the upside is there to center a top 6 line and I think his salary is a little high for a 3rd line center.

 

[R S]

If you sign the likes of Iggy, Beauchemin and Stuart (old players for a lot of money) it's to win NOW. It doesn't make sense to sign them if you have too many young players to "win now" (as you clearly stated). You should spend that money on younger players such as O'Reilly and possibly Stastny if you plan to win later.

While I agree that several of the signings have been bad, I really disagree with the bold part above.

Old players for a lot of money isn't necessarily about winning now. All three of those guys are proven competitors, experienced veterans and players who were brought in to be mentors more than anything. I never saw them as guys that would "push us over the top", more-so guys that would be there to be good examples for our younger players while also being still competent enough to help us win games.

I don't think anyone ever felt that this team was close to being in a win-now position when Roy/Sakic first took ever, themselves included.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Beauchemin is probably the best free agent signing that Colorado has made since Hannan and Smyth

 

[agentblack]

It's really bad and you explained why yourself here:



If you sign the likes of Iggy, Beauchemin and Stuart (old players for a lot of money) it's to win NOW. It doesn't make sense to sign them if you have too many young players to "win now" (as you clearly stated). You should spend that money on younger players such as O'Reilly and possibly Stastny if you plan to win later.

Yeah im gonna have to disagree with your understanding of the Avs situation there. If lets say ROR and Stats were kept around for reasonable cap hits AND they signed those 3 then perhaps you can say "oh wow they are going for it ...and I guess when EJ and Mack and Barrie need raises they will cross that bridge" and so forth. Those guys were signed because they are solid NHL vets that they could sign because otherwise your playing AHL guys and rookies. You have to look at the signings as solidifying the roster not as moves to win a cup. FA doesnt work like that anymore. To everyone's dismay im sure.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Meh, I disagree with pretty much the entire post by the OP.


The only signing that I agree was bad is the Stuart contract. He's nothing more then a #6(If he's even that) at this point and 3.6M is WAY to much for him. Should be making a maximum of about 1.5M.



Iggy at 5.5M is still a fair deal for a guy that's gonna provide 25-30 Goals, and 50-60 points again this season. I agree he's not part of the long term plan but I definitely think the Avs believed they were closer then they actually are when they signed him. But from a value stand point he's not overpaid or anything given the production he provides.


Tanguay wasn't a free agent signing, but again at 3.5M that's actually a great cap hit for a 50 point producer. Unfortunately it looks like his play may have taken a huge nosedive this season, but that wasn't exactly something the Avs could have predicted. He'd been playing fantastic hockey the last couple of years.



Soderberg, he definitely has a future with this team. He's been a bright spot on this team this year. Ideally I think he's our #3C in a couple of years, and 4.75M might be a bit to much for that role, but its not a outrageous contract by any means, 3.75-4M would have been closer in value.


Beauchemin, nothing to be said about that deal. Fantastic signing and I really dont know why you would think otherwise.


Comeau att 2.4M is very fair. He's a better version of McGinn, a guy we were paying 3M before. He's a gritty 3rd liner that's great on the forecheck and can provide some decent secondary offense at times.




OP is way to narrowminded when it comes to building a hockey team. We lost ROR because he didn't want to be here and priced himself out of the team. And we lost Stastny because he wanted to go home and play in his home town. There was nothing Avs management could have done to keep either of those guys around.


The guys we brought in were brought in to be mentors to the young team. How do you think Iggy, Beauch, even Stuart, etc. were able to become the players they are(In Stuarts case the player he was)? Its because when they were young guys in the league they had veterans surrounding them and showing them what it takes to be a pro and what it takes to be successful in the league. That's exactly why the Avs brought those guys in.


You dont just build a team full of youngsters and magically expect them all to play like seasoned veterans all of a sudden. It takes time and development. I'm sure Roy and Sakic were hoping and expecting the Avs to be a more competitive team then what they are right now, but that wasn't going to happen overnight either.



Really couldn't disagree more with this thread.

 

[agentblack]

Im even thinking Stuart probably should be playing more. Our pk has been Baaaad and thats his specialty.

Maybe dress 7 D and just use him for spot duty.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's really bad and you explained why yourself here:



If you sign the likes of Iggy, Beauchemin and Stuart (old players for a lot of money) it's to win NOW. It doesn't make sense to sign them if you have too many young players to "win now" (as you clearly stated). You should spend that money on younger players such as O'Reilly and possibly Stastny if you plan to win later.

If we can't win now regardless, because we have too many young players, then who cares about the money right now.

 

[agentblack]

If anything the PAP and Wilson contracts hurt them more in the long run. Once it came time to try and retain Paul they couldnt. Imagine if they were able to keep him around last year.
Remember the Avs had 5 50pts scorers last year, thats the most in the league and you add in Stats to that?
They might have made the playoffs.

 

[bohlmeister]

Guys get overpaid in free agency. The two I have a problem with are Stuart (who is clearly done - and that's when he's healthy enough to play) and Soderberg.

Is there any argument against Soderberg not being Colorado's worst player this season (in terms of salary and expectations)?

He's a team worst -9 (then next guy is -4), he's provided very little offense, and is so bad at faceoffs he usually lines up as a winger.

He is horrible. After seeing him live I can't believe we are strapped to this boat anchor. His skating is just awful. The game I saw he was lazy on top of that. I said this board will hate him by the end of this season. I stand by that.

 

[Avsboy]

For some reason the thread title reminds me of "The Rent is TOO damn high!"

 

[Nalens Oga]

I'll preface this by saying that I don't think our mgmt knows what they're doing (or aren't carrying it out correctly).

I disagree with your thoughts on Stas/ROR. Stastny was gonna walk regardless and it was clear that he was headed towards STL even if we'd matched the $7 M to me. The mistake was not letting him walk, it was letting him walk for nothing. They were in a playoff spot and got greedy, they should have moved him at the blue-line, even if we'd gotten a stable #4 dman or a 2nd/3rd line winger along with a 3rd draft pick or something the it would certainly make a difference, it was poor asset management but re-signing him over Stuart and co wasn't an option.

The ROR situation was a mess as you remember. We ourselves wanted the guy gone and they did well here to at least get something of value out of that. I won't blame them here but at the same time, I don't trust them with Zadorov's development.

Overall, making the playoffs that year diverted the team from their plan which was that it was a rebuilding team. The failure is not that they failed to re-sign those two guys that were headed out the door, it was that the way they added depth with guys like Comeau and Stuart, has been a horrific failure. And obviously by now, Sakic doesn't seem like a good enough GM to make a shrewd move to pick up some depth. If you aren't picking up depth then blow the periphery of your roster, give those spots to kids, trade for draft picks, and continue the rebuild but he isn't doing this either.

 

[SuperJoe]

Guys get overpaid in free agency. The two I have a problem with are Stuart (who is clearly done - and that's when he's healthy enough to play) and Soderberg.

Is there any argument against Soderberg not being Colorado's worst player this season (in terms of salary and expectations)?

He's a team worst -9 (then next guy is -4), he's provided very little offense, and is so bad at faceoffs he usually lines up as a winger.

Don't say that around here, he's so composed with the puck, who cares if the rest is so meh

 

[tigervixxxen]

They aren't going to put a bunch of kids in those spots and say whatever. Plus we don't even have enough kids to just fill out a roster with.

It's probably too much of a contract on Soderberg and he's not exactly the vision people has but my god he's not the terrible picture he's getting painted to be. Part of that bad +/- is when Roy let him hang out to dry with Rantanen and Rendulic. He's one of the few that slows the play down and can hold on to the puck, he's been much better after the first few weeks. I think a lot of hate on him is from NOT watching him lately.

I'd throw Tanguay into the ring as the worst player this season salary + expectations.

 

[Iceberg]

Don't say that around here, he's so composed with the puck, who cares if the rest is so meh

He is the swedish Martin Skoula.

4.75M for a meh player is money NOT wisely spent, IMO, but 2020 is just around the corner.

 

[ThatAvsGamer]

I agree with OP for the most part.


Stuart was a terrible signing

Iginla was an alright signing $ wise, but it was said he's too slow to fit with the core of the team.

Tanguay was a great trade. One of the only good trades Sakic and Co has done.

Soderberg may be a little much but a decent signing

The rest are alright/nothing to really worry about imo

It's no secret signings/trades have gotten a lot worse since Sherman hasn't been in control.

 

[Freudian]

I'm fine with Söderberg and Beachemin. They will be useful for this team.

Stuart was a massive failure.

I don't think Iginla is right for this team when we need someone to contribute shift in and shift out. Spending an extra $1.5M if that would have kept Stastny would have been better. I know Iggy can still shoot, but every line he's on just get hemmed in their own zone because he doesn't play defense or wins puck battles regularly.

Comeau can be useful but you have to have a coach that rides him all the time. Not feed him 18-20 minutes of ice time when he's not hustling.

Tanguay got rid of Jones/O'Brien. Shame he had two knee injuries and fell off, but still worth it in the end.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Well, if some people on here think Soderberg is a horrible player, then I'm not sure how much more time I should be spending on this board. His contract doesn't look great, but the guy is far from horrible, and has been one of our better forwards after a tough start.