HF Habs: The Martin Saint-Louis thread: Winning Streak Edition

[1909]

MSL answer to a question during the presser after practice this morning

«Si un joueur n’est pas convaincu de la façon dont on fait les choses, c’est peut-être qu’il n’est pas à la bonne place», a déclaré Martin St-Louis, au terme de l’entraînement des siens.

Don't know if he had anybody in mind when he said that but the message as the merit of being crystal clear

Tried to find the quote in english media, not much about the Habs with TSN and Sporstnet even Montréal Gazette had nothing about that

Is he talking about his "concepts" ? OR the fact that management and coaching are doing everthing they can to sabotage the season (again !) ?

I can understand the big blow of loosing Dach and later on Newhook to injuries.

I can understand that the D-Corp is still pretty green besides Matheson and Savard.

BUT, I refuse to accept why they kept three goalies all season long so far, cutting precious time in the net for Monty and one backup.

And I am not convinced at all that trading Monahan was good for the team spririt and for younger players who were appreciating his experience and leadership.

I was expecting a .500 season (and for a while they were right on) with obvious progress on the overall team play. Offensively, defensively, PK and PP. They have the worst plus-minus record in the East.

Learning to WIN is also part of the development.

 

[salbutera]

So apparently Marty thinks this is the best stretch of hockey they've played. I haven't watched the last two games but if true, yikes.

Habs are on a streak of seven straight games in which they are above 50 percent in expected goals-for percentage at five-on-five - I believe that is what MSL is alluding to

 

[HABitual Fan]

If MSL is here to develop players, I have no problem with that. Then he needs to realize that means that Caufield, Suzuki, Slaf, Roy Newhook and Ylonen are the only names that need to be in the top 6 and 2 waves of the PP. You are either coaching to develop or coaching for wins. The same with the defense, play the kids win or lose on the top 2 pairings and on the PP. Playing Matheson 2 minutes on the PP neither succeeds, wins you games or aids in the development.

Decide on what the systems will be and get them to play them, whether they succeed or not. Don't dummy down the systems to the lowest common denominator, I prefer looking good and losing, to losing and never finding out who on the roster is capable of playing a system other than pond hockey. The bad habits and style of play will be harder to unlearn later whether it is MSL or another coach that will have to do it.

I appreciate the culture change MSL brought, but at some point you need to get the GM to acquire the players you need for a style of play, hard to do that when there is none and he has no way to evaluate which of the current players will fit before bringing in new ones.

I see more regression than development in the young players especially the defense. The only development is by allowing the skilled players to actually play together, and show their skill rather than be saddled with plugs. Real development is when the said players can actually play a system that allows them to be on the ice for more more points than they give up, their individual stats don't lead to victories. Stop catering everything to the worst players.

What is happening reminds me of an NBA coach who had a player who couldn't defend and when asked what defense he is using said the team plays man on man, except for the one player who plays zone.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

We traded away Monahan. That was by design.

Right. But he was always going to be traded to a contender no matter what. It was the right move but with a healthy line-up, you still have Dach and Dvorak behind Suzuki. He's not on an island.

 

[teamfirst]

Is he talking about his "concepts" ? OR the fact that management and coaching are doing everthing they can to sabotage the season (again !) ?

I can understand the big blow of loosing Dach and later on Newhook to injuries.

I can understand that the D-Corp is still pretty green besides Matheson and Savard.

BUT, I refuse to accept why they kept three goalies all season long so far, cutting precious time in the net for Monty and one backup.

And I am not convinced at all that trading Monahan was good for the team spririt and for younger players who were appreciating his experience and leadership.

I was expecting a .500 season (and for a while they were right on) with obvious progress on the overall team play. Offensively, defensively, PK and PP. They have the worst plus-minus record in the East.

Learning to WIN is also part of the development.

The question was

Dans des séquences aussi difficiles, les joueurs sont-ils parfois plus durs à convaincre de la direction empruntée ?, lui a demandé un journaliste.

« Ça dépend comment tu mesures le succès, lui a répondu St-Louis. Si un joueur n’est pas convaincu de la manière dont on fait les choses, peut-être qu’il n’est pas à sa place ici. »

Dont know if you can read French article but here's the two article

Le portrait global et les vraies défaites​

in La Presse

CANADIEN: APPRENTISSAGE ET PROGRESSION, MAIS PAS DE RÉSULTAT. LA PATIENCE A-T-ELLE DES LIMITES?​

TVA sport

 

[morhilane]

So apparently Marty thinks this is the best stretch of hockey they've played. I haven't watched the last two games but if true, yikes.

MSL clearly doesn't care about defense at this point...

 

[Captain Mountain]

MSL clearly doesn't care about defense at this point...

Frankly, I'm more concerned about more consistently doing things which lead to success than defensive breakdowns.

And the truth is, this has been one of Montreal's best 5 game stretches when it comes to the former under MSL.

They're a bad team though so it doesn't mean they'll win more.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right. But he was always going to be traded to a contender no matter what. It was the right move but with a healthy line-up, you still have Dach and Dvorak behind Suzuki. He's not on an island.

Dach and Dvorak were hurt early in the year. The only other center we had was Monahan.

Why do you think we traded him away?

Next year, we should hopefully be in better shape. I still don’t think we’ll be in a playoff spot but I don’t think we’ll be bottom five either.

 

[Theodore450]

Is it?

Do you think Gallagher would be better with a change of scenery? I hope KH can find a GM that shares your assessment lol

I'm sure even MB wouldn't touch that contract with a ten foot pole!

You pick the literal worst contract.
I knew the moment that contract was signed that it was a mistake. He was awful in the play in. Hasn’t been the same since pre Covid. Maybe he can fill an Okposo like role, but I do think he would look slightly less worse in a real system.

 

[Miller Time]

You pick the literal worst contact.
I knew the moment that contract was signed that it was a mistake. He was awful in the play in. Hasn’t been the same since pre Covid. Maybe he can fill an Okposo like role, but I do think he would look slightly less worse in a real system.

So then why is it "funny" that Gallagher played better under previous coaches?

Pick a lane lol

 

[Miller Time]

Habs are on a streak of seven straight games in which they are above 50 percent in expected goals-for percentage at five-on-five - I believe that is what MSL is alluding to

So apparently Marty thinks this is the best stretch of hockey they've played. I haven't watched the last two games but if true, yikes.

The criticism would be far more grounded if it was at least a little grounded in what MSL & the organization are actually trying to accomplish, rather than a narrow focus on game to game outcomes...

 

[Mrb1p]

The criticism would be far more grounded if it was at least a little grounded in what MSL & the organization are actually trying to accomplish, rather than a narrow focus on game to game outcomes...

What are they trying to accomplish ? Seeing the most mistakes Matheson can do?

HE'S THE MOST PLAYED PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE LMAO

Really though, i just wanna see the team get better.

Meanwhile:
No offensive progress from Guhle.
No progress from Harris, Struble.
Regression for Xhekaj, Barron and Caufield.
No ice-time to Roy, Ylonen, Heineman, RHP, Xhekaj.

I guess Suzuki, Slaf and Matheson progressed. We take the W's, I guess.

 

[morhilane]

So many sport media people now wondering why the Habs defensive is so awful while MSL is claiming they are playing their best hockey. I can't believe the players haven't started to question MSL coaching over that yet.

Crazy theories are being spoken live on radio/TV at this point.

(Matheson)HE'S THE MOST PLAYED PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE LMAO

MSL is managing his bench like someone who wants to keep who he perceive are his best players on the ice for 60 minutes. Every games. Regardless if they are at 100%. It's crazy.

And it make no sense at all, outside screaming "the entire roster is trash" to management.

 

[Miller Time]

What are they trying to accomplish ? Seeing the most mistakes Matheson can do?

HE'S THE MOST PLAYED PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE LMAO

Really though, i just wanna see the team get better.

Meanwhile:
No offensive progress from Guhle.
No progress from Harris, Struble.
Regression for Xhekaj, Barron and Caufield.
No ice-time to Roy, Ylonen, Heineman, RHP, Xhekaj.

I guess Suzuki, Slaf and Matheson progressed. We take the W's, I guess.

Progress isn't linear
Points alone is not a reliable metric of progress

We have the youngest d in the league, and the highest points share from def, yet you don't "see" any progress from 5 of our dmen while complaining that 1 of the 2 veterans we have plays too much...

Interesting take. Can't say that I agree with in at all.

 

[teamfirst]

So many sport media people now wondering why the Habs defensive is so awful while MSL is claiming they are playing their best hockey. I can't believe the players haven't started to question MSL coaching over that yet.

Crazy theories are being spoken live on radio/TV at this point.


MSL is managing his bench like someone who wants to keep who he perceive are his best players on the ice for 60 minutes. Every games. Regardless if they are at 100%. It's crazy.

And it make no sense at all, outside screaming "the entire roster is trash" to management.

No worry's there, havn't you eard of his new concept....it's only a box problem now, guy's need to find the right box and jump in it.

Everything will be ok

 

[teamfirst]

People saying that MSL at least is not putting the blame on his player are completly wrong.

Au contraire i think he is the master of doing it in disguise, can work for a little while but at a certain point the guy's will get fed up of his philosophical statement

 

[Mrb1p]

Progress isn't linear
Points alone is not a reliable metric of progress

We have the youngest d in the league, and the highest points share from def, yet you don't "see" any progress from 5 of our dmen while complaining that 1 of the 2 veterans we have plays too much...

Interesting take. Can't say that I agree with in at all.

Helps a lot that a guy like Kovacevic is shooting like hes Matthews.

Realistically, thats not progress. The Habs have great defensive point shares but 60% of the points come from Matheson, Savard, Kovacevic and Lindstrom.

All other defenders are pacing for less points than last year. Progress, I guess.
Focusing away from points, Barron, Harris and Xhekaj are visibly worst and havent learned anything from last year on top of having worst stats.

Guhle seems to he stagnating and the team has negative insentive to develop his offensive game. I guess we're content with a #3 defensive specialist instead of a guy that could challenge for a Norris.

Its just as bleak on offense /Suzuki and the natural progression from Slaf.

 

[Rapala]

No worry's there, havn't you eard of his new concept....it's only a box problem now, guy's need to find the right box and jump in it.

Everything will be ok

Are the boxes square because the majority of our pegs are round and don't fit?
It's no surprise to me that we break down as bad as we do when playing that game.
Marty might want to shelve it until he has more "Hockey Players" instead of guys who just play hockey.

 

[teamfirst]

Helps a lot that a guy like Kovacevic is shooting like hes Matthews.

Realistically, thats not progress. The Habs have great defensive point shares but 60% of the points come from Matheson, Savard, Kovacevic and Lindstrom.

All other defenders are pacing for less points than last year. Progress, I guess.
Focusing away from points, Barron, Harris and Xhekaj are visibly worst and havent learned anything from last year on top of having worst stats.

Guhle seems to he stagnating and the team has negative insentive to develop his offensive game. I guess we're content with a #3 defensive specialist instead of a guy that could challenge for a Norris.

Its just as bleak on offense /Suzuki and the natural progression from Slaf.

Good post, i love Kayden but when i read his name stated as an exemple of guy's who has progress........i'm not seeing it, the guy has so much skills, he can be alot better than he is right now.

Can't help myself to think that alot of it is due to the way we play in our own end, and the fact that they're not trying to devlopp his offensive skills.

 

[BLONG7]

Our young D are going to suffer, learning curves................they are mostly 22-23 years old.
So, patience is the key,...............I still come back to why play man to man in a 5 man unit, when all it has us do is run around and bump into one another, creating scoring chances and getting hemmed?

MSL seems like he is coaching to win, but not going to happen like he thinks it will.
Let the kids play should be the philosophy so we know what we have to do at the draft and the summer ufa time.
The kids...............should be the focus, but of course the GM wants to shine the odd turd for a trade I guess?
So Marty's hands are tied?

 

[Mrb1p]

Good post, i love Kayden but when i read his name stated as an exemple of guy's who has progress........i'm not seeing it, the guy has so much skills, he can be alot better than he is right now.

Can't help myself to think that alot of it is due to the way we play in our own end, and the fact that they're not trying to devlopp his offensive skills.

Just the fact he's asked to play RD to catter TO Matheson, someone that should be "sheltering him" is completely mind blowing. People actually defend this shit too. He's LD. He should be on the left side LEARNING.

 

[hvac412]

No worry's there, havn't you eard of his new concept....it's only a box problem now, guy's need to find the right box and jump in it.

Everything will be ok

He needs to look in the mirror,maybe he's not in the right "boite or chaise "

 

[morhilane]

Good post, i love Kayden but when i read his name stated as an exemple of guy's who has progress........i'm not seeing it, the guy has so much skills, he can be alot better than he is right now.

Can't help myself to think that alot of it is due to the way we play in our own end, and the fact that they're not trying to devlopp his offensive skills.

They are using Guhle as a defensive shutdown D instead of a two-way D like last year (lets not talk about playing RD right now).

I have no idea why they changed how the Ds are used this year. The defense looked much better last year, Matheson included.

 

[Mrb1p]

They are using Guhle as a defensive shutdown D instead of a two-way D like last year (lets not talk about playing RD right now).

I have no idea why they changed how the Ds are used this year. The defense looked much better last year, Matheson included.

Its impossible to ignore the asinine move that they made to cover for Matheson. It's actually insane.

I can't hear anyone else tell me Matheson is sheltering anyone while playing 6 minutes of PP a game and getting baby sat by f***ing 21 YO Guhle playing his off side in his 83rd game. Maddening.

We are once again, putting the vets ahead of the future. Saint-Louis is scared of the boys in the room and that is the reason why Matheson plays so much, that's why Anderson finds himself slithering back in the top 6 any chance he gets. Thats the reason why Gallagher hasn't sat a game despite being god-damn horrible and not even AHL worthy while honest workers like Pezz ride the pine for no reasons.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Year two of the rebuild and fefans are talking about * la patience a t'elle des limites* hahahahahahaha.


How can you be so entitled when DD and Pleks were our first line centers for like a decade only to be followed by DANAULT being our 1C , it actually blows my mind , as if we had this incredible team that was respected around the league before hughes came in delusional.

Sounds like l'antichambre still has a stranglehold on the province

Hard to win with a garbage roster without Price isin't it ?