The Management Thread - Time is a Flat Circle

[Bob Long]

The team accidentally sucking their way to high picks deserves most of the credit for our 'improved drafting'.

two different issues tho. And that gives no credit to the later round successes like Gaudette, Madden, Rathbone, Tryamkin, etc.

 

[carrotshirt]

he's clearly giving his kid a chance to learn, suggesting its anything other than that is laughable.

How do you know this? “Were you in the room?”

 

[MS]

proof? OK who was the GM when the changes were made? Gillis was a drafting disaster. Benning has a solid history. Suggesting thats not the case is the red herring here.

Benning's last 15 years are also a total drafting disaster. Thank god Linden went with Brackett to take Pettersson.

 

[MS]

two different issues tho. And that gives no credit to the later round successes like Gaudette, Madden, Rathbone, Tryamkin, etc.

Two of those players haven't even played an NHL game. One was a depth defender for one season.

If we didn't have high picks to take Hughes and Pettersson, our drafting under Benning would look awful. 2016-2018 are horrific outside of the top-10 picks, and including the case of the top-10 pick in 2016.

2014 is also a super-weird draft because it was done by Gillis' scouting director and scouts off a list created before Benning arrived, and Benning himself admits he mostly sat back and watched the process to evaluate (outside of the Virtanen pick).

 

[Bob Long]

Benning's last 15 years are also a total drafting disaster. Thank god Linden went with Brackett to take Pettersson.

respectfully I don't know how you can state that.

 

[JumpierPegasus]

why the dislike for Delorme?

Delorme was head scout under Mike Gillis in one of the worst eras of drafting in Canuck history

On top of that, if I remember correctly he was tasked with scouting the WHL as his main region and the Canucks backyard scouting has been abysmal

However, it has also been mentioned Delorme was the guy who pushed for Pettersson in 2017, but conflicting reports also say that was Gradin. But if it was Delorme that was a good move by him. But he has an overall history of cons greater than his pros

 

[MS]

respectfully I don't know how you can state that.

Oversaw the worst drafting team in the NHL in Boston, then came here and has had Brackett basically cover his ass. Without Brackett fighting hard and Linden intervening, we'd have gone Juolevi-Glass with back-to-back top-5 picks.

 

[Bob Long]

Two of those players haven't even played an NHL game. One was a depth defender for one season.

If we didn't have high picks to take Hughes and Pettersson, our drafting under Benning would look awful. 2016-2018 are horrific outside of the top-10 picks, and including the case of the top-10 pick in 2016.

2014 is also a super-weird draft because it was done by Gillis' scouting director and scouts off a list created before Benning arrived, and Benning himself admits he mostly sat back and watched the process to evaluate (outside of the Virtanen pick).

it takes time for later round picks to develop, but so far things are looking good. I'm not sure you're comparing our prospect pool to other teams. I think if you do the searching you'll see that many pundits have ranked our prospect pool quite highly since Jim took over.

 

[Bob Long]

Oversaw the worst drafting team in the NHL in Boston, then came here and has had Brackett basically cover his ass. Without Brackett fighting hard and Linden intervening, we'd have gone Juolevi-Glass with back-to-back top-5 picks.

and did very well in Buffalo.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

proof? OK who was the GM when the changes were made? Gillis was a drafting disaster. Benning has a solid history. Suggesting thats not the case is the red herring here.

You're still not listing any of the changes that Benning made that you're advocating for. We're discussing the process of getting there and what was done, not the result. If we started the disagreement with "Benning has had better draft results than Gillis" then you would have a great point, but we didn't. It's about the changes made to the department. Why are you trying to move the goalposts so much?

 

[Bob Long]

Delorme was head scout under Mike Gillis in one of the worst eras of drafting in Canuck history

On top of that, if I remember correctly he was tasked with scouting the WHL as his main region and the Canucks backyard scouting has been abysmal

However, it has also been mentioned Delorme was the guy who pushed for Pettersson in 2017, but conflicting reports also say that was Gradin. But if it was Delorme that was a good move by him. But he has an overall history of cons greater than his pros

I heard Jim speak at a season ticket holder event in his 1st year here. He talked about one big problem with the scouting team being that everyone was working off their own definitions for player evaluation, so it was a scatter shot approach. He brought in a consistent method of evaluation which imo was a big part of why things got better.

 

[Bob Long]

You're still not listing any of the changes that Benning made that you're advocating for. We're discussing the process of getting there and what was done, not the result. If we started the disagreement with "Benning has had better draft results than Gillis" then you would have a great point, but we didn't. It's about the changes made to the department. Why are you trying to move the goalposts so much?

goal posts... straw man.... red herring... why do these terms come up every time someone goes against the Benning hate herd on here?

Benning does have a much better record than Gillis. Thats proof whether its inconvenient for your narrative or not.

 

[Hansen]

goal posts... straw man.... red herring... why do these terms come up every time someone goes against the Benning hate herd on here?

Benning does have a much better record than Gillis. Thats proof whether its inconvenient for your narrative or not.

Because one literally has to defy logic to defend Benning

 

[Peen]

Virtanen Bleackley Boeser Juolevi Glass Hughes (Podkolzin?)

I don't remember what the credible rumors were of who Benning really liked in this previous draft.

Anyway, the drafting debates are boring. We'll see in four or five years how Benning does at the table this year.

Back to the cap space issue - has anyone done an updated salary projection of what we expect our rfa and ufas to fit as of now?

One thing that's missed by the benning bros side is that not only can we not re-sign good talent - we can't upgrade a bubble team without dumping futures (which we don't have a lot of). And, we clearly need to upgrade our net negative bottom six players and our defense.

 

[MS]

it takes time for later round picks to develop, but so far things are looking good. I'm not sure you're comparing our prospect pool to other teams. I think if you do the searching you'll see that many pundits have ranked our prospect pool quite highly since Jim took over.

Yes, because we've consistently had top-5 and top-10 picks included in that prospect pool. It's been the top-end guys, not the depth. The only time there was the illusion of depth was the summer of 2018 before Lind/Gadjovich/Dahlen all crashed-and-burned in the AHL the next year.

and did very well in Buffalo.

In the late 1990s/early 2000s he had a couple good drafts with Buffalo, yes. 20 years ago.

His last 15 years have been awful and there's nothing there to suggest this is some sort of outstanding scout.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

goal posts... straw man.... red herring... why do these terms come up every time someone goes against the Benning hate herd on here?

Benning does have a much better record than Gillis. Thats proof whether its inconvenient for your narrative or not.

Lol now a red herring about red herrings, can't even make this shit up.

I wasn't even pushing a narrative - I simply stated a fact that Gillis also made changes to the scouting department in 2013. Thinking that posting one fact constitutes pushing a narrative is just delusional.

 

[Bob Long]

Because one literally has to defy logic to defend Benning

and to put all of the blame on him for all the mistakes in the organization over the last 6 years. There is a more balanced story, but I guess its more fun to vent.

 

[MS]

Virtanen Bleackley Boeser Juolevi Glass Hughes (Podkolzin?)

I don't remember what the credible rumors were of who Benning really liked in this previous draft.

Apparently he really, really liked Broberg and wanted to trade down after Edmonton took him. Brackett convinced him to keep the pick to take Podkolzin.

 

[Bob Long]

Yes, because we've consistently had top-5 and top-10 picks included in that prospect pool. It's been the top-end guys, not the depth. The only time there was the illusion of depth was the summer of 2018 before Lind/Gadjovich/Dahlen all crashed-and-burned in the AHL the next year.



In the late 1990s/early 2000s he had a couple good drafts with Buffalo, yes. 20 years ago.

His last 15 years have been awful and there's nothing there to suggest this is some sort of outstanding scout.

So... if guys like Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, DiPietro work out will that change your mind? Just curious if you're open to that.

 

[Bob Long]

Lol now a red herring about red herrings, can't even make this shit up.

I wasn't even pushing a narrative - I simply stated a fact that Gillis also made changes to the scouting department in 2013. Thinking that posting one fact constitutes pushing a narrative is just delusional.

Gillis did, and most of it sucked.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Benning wiesbrod Delorme are all ass.
This management is ass and basically everything they do is f***ing backwards.
Cap strapped 'wild card contender ' team, full of garbage players, contracts, signings, trades, quotes etc etc

This team is obv going nowhere under these dumb asses and its delusional to think otherwise given the years of information available.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Gillis did, and most of it sucked.

He revamped the scouting department and we walked away with Horvat at 9th overall when everyone was clamouring for Nuke. Seems like his changes had positive results.

 

[VanillaCoke]

So... if guys like Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, DiPietro work out will that change your mind?

WaIt AnD SeE!!

 

[xtra]

It takes years for late round picks to develop but we should consider them a success anyway....huh that’s flawed logic

 

[MS]

So... if guys like Podkolzin, Juolevi, Rathbone, DiPietro work out will that change your mind? Just curious if you're open to that.

Rathbone was a family friend of Brackett. We know how that pick came about and it has nothing to do with Benning.

If a whole bunch of guys come out of the woodwork and Juolevi miraculously turns into a top-end defender, of course I'll give him credit. I don't expect that to happen, though.

___________

Again, we have 6 years of information on Benning and how good his pro scouting is, and the guy can't even identify which actual NHL players are good. The notion that he can't figure out what's happening in an NHL game right in front of him but is somehow a genius at projecting what teenaged hockey players will look like 5-8 years later is ... ludicrous. It's like thinking that a guy who counts on his fingers to add 5+3 can do nuclear physics.