The Management Thread | Part Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

[Javaman]

Similar thing with Parise where mose of us thought it was like Parizay, but it's actually (I'm cringing) Pareesee

If I recall correctly, Zach accepted a different pronunciation of Parise than his dad to be more "American"|

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Remember that goalie.. Guy Hebert?

Canadians assumed his name was pronounced "Gi Hey-bear"

But he was American so it was actually pronounced like "Guy Hee-bert"

Yava-man, you mean it wasnt Gie Hebb-ert?

 

[Canucks1096]

Who cares? it's the draft. If we start attacking people for projecting 17/18yr olds pretty much every professional scouting services are junk and idiots.

Draft narratives are the worst unless of course the draftees value toughness over talent and skill then it's fair game.

I wanted Tkachuk and was pissed. After cooling down and watching hrs of Juolevi playing against his peers i thought he was going to be a stud 1st pair d man. Unfortunately these guys peers are usually also 16-19yr old kids and crap players compared to NHLers . Some develop better than others....it's hardly an exact science and the gaps are huge for kids playing jr.

True, fair enough I apologize for that. For me I don't like it when people exaggerate so much. Saying every poster is better at drafting than Benning is 100% not true and MS know that.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Botchford: Trevor Linden and ownership had difficult relationship

Botchford is more reliable. I think we can all agree. Close to the end. Beagle Rousell Schaller who signing were those? Answer Consenus pick that Linden was part of.

If there difference sources. Fair thing to do is disregard both of them.

I laughed a lot when you claiming two fringe prospects traded for each other as a bad trade. Gagner for Spooner. Garbage trade but Canucks actually saved 75000 in cap. That should be considered a good trade. For me I wouldn't count that as good or bad

Travis Green describes it as a consensus Edit: That he involves Linden within (for those who didn't actually listen to the interview) to Botchford... Do you actually believe that TG is going to say that Trevor disagreed with what Benning was doing and left the organization as a result?

Unreal interpretation by you. This just gets better and better. Lol.

The information that Benning was leading the charge comes straight from Lalji, not the Canucks coach. Linden then leaves the organization shortly afterwards. Botchford's radio hit has the title "Trevor Linden and ownership had a difficult relationship"...

Yet, there was a consensus on the moves right up until his departure? Like, are you joking?

 

[Javaman]

Yava-man, you mean it wasnt Gie Hebb-ert?

Maybe.... dammit, we need someone who knows the phonological codes for all linguistic sounds...

But I hope my point still stands.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Maybe.... dammit, we need someone who knows the phonological codes for all linguistic sounds...

But I hope my point still stands.

The easiest solution would be to just ask the person how their name is pronounced.

For examole my name is pronounced Law-knee (depsite some poster trying Loo-knee) Boos (as in the sound a ghost makes).

The H, O and N are all silent...

 

[VanillaCoke]

Honestly, if this was his first year on the job I'd be way more inclined to agree. But when you've been seeing the same trends and patterns in behavior for 6 years running... how it could it not be cause for concern? 6 years is a long time man for someone to be doing the same inane things over and over.

It's like that old saying. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...?

Since american pronunciations have come up, it's actually:
"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can't get fooled again"

 

[Melvin]

I like the direction this thread has taken.

As a kid I loved the Czech players where the r makes a sh sound.

 

[Javaman]

The easiest solution would be to just ask the person how their name is pronounced.

For examole my name is pronounced Law-knee (depsite some poster trying Loo-knee) Boos (as in the sound a ghost makes).

The H, O and N are all silent...

Hmm...Dutch?

 

[2011 still hurts]

remember like 2 months ago when there were those "has benning surpassed dubas?" threads on the main boards

lmaooooo

 

[sting101]

Juolevi was a weird case because he was playing on these stacked teams with superstar forwards who were all in the NHL the next year. And never had to defend much because the puck was always in the offensive end of the rink.

Watching him the next year on a more normal team I realized I f***ed up that evaluation almost immediately. And yeah, made the same mistake Benning did.

MS it happens. It's hilarious when people who never stick their necks out take shots at others that do. And i'm not saying that for this posters case because i don't remember his post history but i know you do and i respect that.

Predicting athletic performance at levels and speeds their brains and bodies have never had to process or deal with is incredibly nuanced. And even once in the NHL its important to be confident and in a role that you can create a positive outcome. That's not an easy thing. look at how many promising yr 1 and 2 players that by yrs 4 and 5 are hanging on to a job or not.

The draft shit pisses me off. Were all playing a bit of a guessing game and are obviously not watching the top50 players 6-10 times live as well as video output. Juolevi had some high end qualities and was on an almost unprecedented role of success by 17. His size and confidence made him project like a cant miss in many ways. I watch a lot of WHL games live and the speed and time is hilarious to an NHL game.

It wasn't just Benning i'm sure they had meetings and picked the situation apart. He loved him and thought it was time to address the D...that was the big mistake...position over BPA. OJ was rated as a top6 to 8 pick and people want to point fingers....whatever go ahead.

Give me a draft list for the top50 from the last 5yrs and i you'll have my respect

 

[vanuck]

These guys are reeling right now and it would be very surprising if that didn't happen.

Apparently we offered $6 million for Barrie, so that's an attempt at a panic move already that we were saved from by Edmonton.

I did see the news that some team offered Barrie $6M but it didn't say if that was us (even if it wouldn't be surprising). Was this confirmed and where?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Here's another one for you @Canucks1096:

Benning denies involvement in Linden's departure from Canucks

Meanwhile, other reports have speculated that Linden was not in favor of the team's offseason moves, particularly the free-agent signings of Antoine Roussel and Jay Beagle, both of whom inked four-year deals. The former president may have preferred a slow and steady rebuild, while ownership could be angling for home playoff dates in the nearer term.

 

[F A N]

Clearly I'm drunk

 

[vanuck]

I don't disagree with you, and I wrote something similar just a couple of days ago. I've been saying for about a year that the canucks deadweight contracts mean they will take a step back in 2020/21. But I'm pleased Benning isn't (so far) selling the future to try to win next year. Given the real world situation the Canucks are in the best plan is to bite the bullet this offseason and aim to compete for the cup in 2 or 3 years.

Was the Miller trade a mistake? I'm not sure; the chances of a 1st round pick ever equalling 5 years of Miller in his prime is probably less than 50%.

Was not trading Markstrom a mistake? Maybe for the long term benefit to the team; but the circumstances at the time were that Demko was not healthy as the deadline approached. Not really something you can blame Benning for.

The Miller trade for me was always contingent on whether we'd consistently be in a good position to contend. I thought it was an overpayment at the time and had all kinds of risk considering our team record in the past few seasons so I wasn't a fan of the thinking behind it, but could live with it if it put us over the top. It's the sort of move that contenders make to ensure they get that final piece i.e put the finishing touches on a team that's intending to go for a Cup. That way you can justify the value given up. But if it backfires on us, then it deserves criticism because the value given up got us nowhere.

Benning would've never traded Markstrom at the 2020 deadline after giving up a 1st for Miller - the risk of missing and having to defer the pick to next year was just too great. It would've had to happen in the 2019 offseason/draft or even the year before.

 

[Javaman]

Clearly you don't know what consensus means. Let me make things simple for you. If there are are 3 people who agree and 1 that didn't, there is a consensus.

That's literally not what a consensus is. Try again?

 

[Canucks1096]

Travis Green describes it as a consensus Edit: That he involves Linden within (for those who didn't actually listen to the interview) to Botchford... Do you actually believe that TG is going to say that Trevor disagreed with what Benning was doing and left the organization as a result?

Unreal interpretation by you. This just gets better and better. Lol.

The information that Benning was leading the charge comes straight from Lalji, not the Canucks coach. Linden then leaves the organization shortly afterwards. Botchford's radio hit has the title "Trevor Linden and ownership had a difficult relationship"...

Yet, there was a consensus on the moves right up until his departure? Like, are you joking?

If you want to use your article as evidences. Then base on this, Linden was more involve than Benning. Linden was president but acted a GM and Benning it seem like he acted like an assisted GM. Before Linden left, instead of blaming Benning for all the moves. You can blame Linden now. We can stop this argument now. Thanks!

Back to Botchford, he even said there are reports that those signings were Greem and also there report that it was someone else as well. Green didn't have to hinted as a group a decision.

Have a great night


’s important to remember that the Canucks over the last four years have been as much Linden’s creation as they have been Benning’s. As Botchford pointed out, “in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in the day-to-day hockey operations. In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions.”
“There were times when people in the organization would say ‘Linden is running this team.’”
Linden bears as much responsibility for the team’s failures (and successes) over the past four years, then, as Benning. He might bear even more responsibility for the Canucks’ confusing communication, as he was frequently the main mouthpiece for the management group. When the team said one thing and then did another or made excuses

 

[sting101]

True, fair enough I apologize for that. For me I don't like it when people exaggerate so much. Saying every poster is better at drafting than Benning is 100% not true and MS know that.

fair and thanks for this.

MS knows his stuff but were all fallible. I don't think anyone should be hanging their hat on the draft because no one has enough viewings and exposure to be a expert opinion.

and the somebody who thought he would be classy and open up other posters to criticism for past opinions on the matter? Well it says more about that poster than anyone else if you ask me.

MS absolutely cant stand Benning and Weisbrod...he goes off about it. While i don't share his disdain and opinions i admire the conviction. I'm obviously way more empathetic and easy to please. But i'm a broken Canuck fan who has watched over 40yrs of this franchises failures especially in drafting and developing and i love the core.

 

[VanillaCoke]

We all love the core, what about the rest...

What about the errors that led to the core?
What about the errors that led to the current situation?

 

[Canucks1096]

Here's another one for you @Canucks1096:

Benning denies involvement in Linden's departure from Canucks

Fair enough. I guess we can call it a coincidence that when Linden left. The moves got better. There are no more Sutter Beagle Rousell Eriksson signings and Gudbranson trade.

Can you blame Linden now for all the bad moves from 2014 to 2017? Your evidences proves that Linden was more involve

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Similar thing with Parise where most of us thought it was like Parizay, but it's actually (I'm cringing) Pareesee

I mean, his father went with the French pronounciation. But Zach was raised in the US and consciously did not want to say it that way.

I worked with an American of French descent surnamed "LeFevre" and she would pronounce it "le fever" (fever pronounced the english way). Threw me for a loop every time I heard it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Fair enough. I guess we can call it a coincidence that when Linden left. The moves got better. There are no more Sutter Beagle Rousell Eriksson signings and Gudbranson trade.

Can you blame Linden now for all the bad moves from 2014 to 2017? Your evidences proves that Linden was more involve

Linden and Benning are both responsible for all the moves during their employment.

If you now agree that the 2018 transaction record is on Benning, then there's nothing left to discuss on that front. I'm glad that's resolved.

That's literally not what a consensus is. Try again?

He jumped the gun regardless, I think. The radio hit makes it clear that TG references Linden as being in agreement. Part of the consensus per his own definition.

But this should be good though...

 

[vanuck]

Our core:

• We have one of the top homegrown young Captains in the league (25 years old)
• We have our #1 Defenceman (20 years old)
• We have our #1 Centre (21 years old)
• We may have our #1 Goaltender (24 years old)

I would argue that the Canucks organization maximized their development as players and as human beings. Would this have occurred without players like Miller, Beagle, Sutter, Tanev, and Markstrom? I don't think any of us can know for sure, but I personally don't think so.

Are we basically handcuffed for the next two years as a result of those contracts? Yep. 100% we are. But through these two years, our core will face their next challenge of becoming the leadership group tasked with mentoring our emerging prospects. As an added plus, we got to glimpse into the future with that improbable Cup run, and we saw a team that collectively played above their potential and were as emotionally prepared, if not more than every opponent they faced.

Realistically, we weren't going to be winning any Cups until guys like Pettersson and Hughes are 25-28 years old at the earliest, even if you did strip away those bad contracts. So if we have to tread water or even take a step back as we continue to build our prospect pipeline in the process, then I think we are in as good a position as any team to win a Cup moving forward.

At present, we have all of our picks in place, we have the money to lock up our core long term, we appear committed to the development of our prospects, and we have shown a reluctance to overpay $ and term for free agents. We have the type of gaps that can be carefully filled over the next 6 years. I know I've been guilty of looking at this team under a microscope, but sometimes you need to take a giant step back from it to see it for what it is.

Sorry, but this whole post is nothing more than a giant convoluted apology for management's incompetence re: the cap and asset management. After years and years of being out of the playoffs we finally squeak in and reach Game 7 of the second round with some very good showings from an exciting young core... only to face the possibility that we now pretty much have no choice but to take a giant step back next season because past mistakes are now coming home to roost.

Like, in what world is that acceptable for a team with aspirations of becoming a contender?

 

[F A N]

That's literally not what a consensus is. Try again?

Clearly I'm drunk

 

[Canucks1096]

Linden and Benning are both responsible for all the moves during their employment.

If you now agree that the 2018 transaction record is on Benning, then there's nothing left to discuss on that front. I'm glad that's resolved.

What I said is still true. I did say Benning transactions got better after Linden left. He left on July 26, 2018. Even Linden had nothing to do with those signings. Benning did improve without Linden around.

Base on what is writtem below Linden was more involve and don't forget Linden is in a higher position than Benning. Base in this Linden should get more blame than Benning. This your evidences. Your evidences proves that Linden was more involve than Benning. It wasn't equal

In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions.”