The Luongo Thread: Just The Beginning (mod warning in post #445)

[Sharpshooter]

9 year contracts and $6.7m salaries don't make for good mentors. Only way FLO is in it is if they can deal Markstrom for more than it costs to acquire Lu.

8 years, starting next season, with a $5.3m caphit for a goalie who would still give you at least 3 years of solid netminding. Salary can be taken back to make the deal better, and Lui would still be a solid back up for a couple seasons thereafter, while grooming Markstrom to take the reigns, as they did with Lui and Schneids here.

So even if he gives FLA 5 good years out of 8, it still seems like a decent acquisition for them, as their young kids/prospect hit their strides/peaks within 3-4 years. After that, it's retirement or moving to a team that needs to hit the cap salary floor.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

According to my good friend. Lu is at the cactus club with his parents for lunch.

Link or it didn't happen.

 

[Alflives*]

8 years, starting next season, with a $5.3m caphit for a goalie who would still give you at least 3 years of solid netminding. Salary can be taken back to make the deal better, and Lui would still be a solid back up for a couple seasons thereafter, while grooming Markstrom to take the reigns, as they did with Lui and Schneids here.

So even if he gives FLA 5 good years out of 8, it still seems like a decent acquisition for them, as their young kids/prospect hit their strides/peaks within 3-4 years.

Luongo's ego will not allow him to be a back-up. He wants to be the guy. This will work in the Canuck's favor. Luongo wants so much to be the guy that he will waive his NTC to play anywhere he can be #1. Thus, this summer he will be traded to (who knows where) for a much better return than now, because the market will be bigger. Toronto will not be that location.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Reading the crap about this Luongo situation on the mainboards really makes me wish that the Canucks can go deep this year. Everyone is already counting them out and laughing at us right now but I hope these players can put it together and prove everyone wrong.

Also never cared for the Leafs before and never understood the dislike for them but now they are up there in my most hated list. Hope their goalies get lit up and their fans continue to be miserable.

Don't listen to it. Half the people on this site get a kick out of rubbing things in other people's faces.

Sorry to jump into your thread as a Leaf fan here but I hope you don't think all Leaf fans are jumping all over Luongo. In fact, many like him and wanted him - some still are in favour of picking him up in the summer. I myself was in favour of acquiring him this past offseason except I was wary of the price being asked by Nucks fans on here (didn't want to give up key-ish pieces like Gardiner, Lupul, etc.).

The issue right now and why I think Nonis didn't take Luongo on the cheap is simply because of Reimer. Reimer has been their starter in this (shortened) season and he has played like a starter. He's looked shakey at times but has been getting results. Nonis I think was hoping for a vet in a supporting role. If the Leafs acquired Luongo, it wouldn't be as a backup - he would replace Reimer as the starter and I don't think they wanted to do that.

It would be like if Vancouver had Schneider and they traded for Luongo right now. It's not fair to their current starter/goalie of the future and due to Luongo's length of contract he'll be around for a long term (it would only be harder to move him later on).

I would like to see Luongo in a Leafs jersey but I just don't think it makes sense right now and I don't think it was what Nonis was looking for. As paulster said earlier, the Leafs aren't expecting to go far this year I don't think - they need experience. A cinderella run would be pretty cool though.

Luongo will only help you this year (more than Scrivens + 2nd rounder or whatever it was - I put little to no stock in these rumours - plus wasn't Dreger not the first to report that price?). It's this offseason where the situation could potentially become more heated.

 

[Outside99*]

I think you guys are being overly optimistic here in regards to Florida and Philly.

The Van Sun article was the most promising news I've seen in a long time - Luongo doesn't report, the team terminates his contract - he goes to waivers which he will clear easily imo and both parties move on. I hope to god this is what happens this offseason.

It's ideal but he'd be leaving a lot of money on the table.

 

[tantalum]

Don't listen to it. Half the people on this site get a kick out of rubbing things in other people's faces.

Sorry to jump into your thread as a Leaf fan here but I hope you don't think all Leaf fans are jumping all over Luongo. In fact, many like him and wanted him - some still are in favour of picking him up in the summer. I myself was in favour of acquiring him this past offseason except I was wary of the price being asked by Nucks fans on here (didn't want to give up key-ish pieces like Gardiner, Lupul, etc.).

The issue right now and why I think Nonis didn't take Luongo on the cheap is simply because of Reimer. Reimer has been their starter in this (shortened) season and he has played like a starter. He's looked shakey at times but has been getting results. Nonis I think was hoping for a vet in a supporting role. If the Leafs acquired Luongo, it wouldn't be as a backup - he would replace Reimer as the starter and I don't think they wanted to do that.

the problem with that theory is that Nonis was working REALLY hard to get Kiprusoff to change his mind and even threw extra years at good money at him. He wasn't bringing Kiprusoff in to sit on the bench and watch Reimer develop.

Now he may not have wanted (for whatever reason) to move Scrivens and two picks for Luongo but he was more than happy to put Reimer in a secondary role for at least a couple of years.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Don't listen to it. Half the people on this site get a kick out of rubbing things in other people's faces.

Sorry to jump into your thread as a Leaf fan here but I hope you don't think all Leaf fans are jumping all over Luongo. In fact, many like him and wanted him - some still are in favour of picking him up in the summer. I myself was in favour of acquiring him this past offseason except I was wary of the price being asked by Nucks fans on here (didn't want to give up key-ish pieces like Gardiner, Lupul, etc.).

The issue right now and why I think Nonis didn't take Luongo on the cheap is simply because of Reimer. Reimer has been their starter in this (shortened) season and he has played like a starter. He's looked shakey at times but has been getting results. Nonis I think was hoping for a vet in a supporting role. If the Leafs acquired Luongo, it wouldn't be as a backup - he would replace Reimer as the starter and I don't think they wanted to do that.

It would be like if Vancouver had Schneider and they traded for Luongo right now. It's not fair to their current starter/goalie of the future and due to Luongo's length of contract he'll be around for a long term (it would only be harder to move him later on).

I would like to see Luongo in a Leafs jersey but I just don't think it makes sense right now and I don't think it was what Nonis was looking for. As paulster said earlier, the Leafs aren't expecting to go far this year I don't think - they need experience. A cinderella run would be pretty cool though.

Luongo will only help you this year (more than Scrivens + 2nd rounder or whatever it was - I put little to no stock in these rumours - plus wasn't Dreger not the first to report that price?). It's this offseason where the situation could potentially become more heated.

Great post! I couldn't agree more. I also understand why you guys didn't want to give up a roster player. Your team is on a good run. There's no need to mess with the chemistry. Go with what got you here and then reassess in the summer.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Well they aren't making the playoffs this year (14th and 7 points out). By the time they've found out if Bishop is the real deal or just another younger guy who got temporarily hot, Luongo will no longer be on the market as Luongo will be gone this summer one way or another.

Yzerman has made his choice and so it likely does remove him from the Luongo sweepstakes. He HAS to go with Bishop as he gave up a Calder candidate for him. But others will determine they have goaltending issues. It's seems to be a foregone conclusion the Flyers will buy out Bryzgalov and they are NOT going to go with Mason as a starter for instance.

Really?, then why were they buyers ? Shows some desperation on Yzermans part. We would have taken what he was selling.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Really?, then why were they buyers ? Shows some desperation on Yzermans part. We would have taken what he was selling.

Doesn't sound like Yzerman was really offering anything. He wants to follow the "Detroit model". All he needs now is to somehow put Lidstrom's body into Hedman's and he'd be halfway there.

 

[tantalum]

Really?, then why were they buyers ? Shows some desperation on Yzermans part. We would have taken what he was selling.

Were they buyers? Seems to me he made a hockey trade. Young promising forward for young promising goaltender. or tried to make a hockey trade. I think he made a mistake.

He also moved crap for crap in the Bergeron for Hall deal.

i wouldn't call that being a buyer. I think he's just going cheap on goaltending and will happily go with a Bishop/Lindback tandem next year. And then (possibly) not so happily be looking to fix his goaltending this time next year because quite frankly at 26 years of age Bishop has found himself at the back of line in two organizations now. that usually happens for a reason....Kiprusoff's don't tend to happen all that often.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Luongo's ego will not allow him to be a back-up. He wants to be the guy. This will work in the Canuck's favor. Luongo wants so much to be the guy that he will waive his NTC to play anywhere he can be #1. Thus, this summer he will be traded to (who knows where) for a much better return than now, because the market will be bigger. Toronto will not be that location.

According to his own words yesterday, he explicitly said that he would be ready to come to the rink today and support his teammates in whichever capacity he was able to. So i agree with you, in the sense that this will be work in the Canucks' favour. The reason however being that Lui loves his teammates, and will do whatever it takes to help them. That's not ego, that's being a true teammate. And just to further dispel this 'ego' that you believe he has, I'd suggest the word that better fits is pride. Yeah he wants to be a starter, but with 'band of brothers' of his, it's easy to see since the beginning of the year, as he's dealt with the situation with nothing but class, humour and professionalism, that he won't put his pride or 'ego' ahead of his teammates.

 

[VanCanucks53]

Don't listen to it. Half the people on this site get a kick out of rubbing things in other people's faces.

Sorry to jump into your thread as a Leaf fan here but I hope you don't think all Leaf fans are jumping all over Luongo. In fact, many like him and wanted him - some still are in favour of picking him up in the summer. I myself was in favour of acquiring him this past offseason except I was wary of the price being asked by Nucks fans on here (didn't want to give up key-ish pieces like Gardiner, Lupul, etc.).

The issue right now and why I think Nonis didn't take Luongo on the cheap is simply because of Reimer. Reimer has been their starter in this (shortened) season and he has played like a starter. He's looked shakey at times but has been getting results. Nonis I think was hoping for a vet in a supporting role. If the Leafs acquired Luongo, it wouldn't be as a backup - he would replace Reimer as the starter and I don't think they wanted to do that.

It would be like if Vancouver had Schneider and they traded for Luongo right now. It's not fair to their current starter/goalie of the future and due to Luongo's length of contract he'll be around for a long term (it would only be harder to move him later on).

I would like to see Luongo in a Leafs jersey but I just don't think it makes sense right now and I don't think it was what Nonis was looking for. As paulster said earlier, the Leafs aren't expecting to go far this year I don't think - they need experience. A cinderella run would be pretty cool though.

Luongo will only help you this year (more than Scrivens + 2nd rounder or whatever it was - I put little to no stock in these rumours - plus wasn't Dreger not the first to report that price?). It's this offseason where the situation could potentially become more heated.

Nice levelheaded post. I take back my comment about wishing all Leaf fans misery

 

[Sharpshooter]

Doesn't sound like Yzerman was really offering anything. He wants to follow the "Detroit model". All he needs now is to somehow put Lidstrom's body into Hedman's and he'd be halfway there.

Box o' wine and a short skirt may work.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Were they buyers? Seems to me he made a hockey trade. Young promising forward for young promising goaltender. or tried to make a hockey trade. I think he made a mistake.

He also moved crap for crap in the Bergeron for Hall deal.

i wouldn't call that being a buyer. I think he's just going cheap on goaltending and will happily go with a Bishop/Lindback tandem next year. And then (possibly) not so happily be looking to fix his goaltending this time next year because quite frankly at 26 years of age Bishop has found himself at the back of line in tow organizations now.

Trading 4 picks and a possible Calder winner, for two questionable goalie options seems like a sure fire recipe for success.
Especially when Bishop was picked up by Ottawa a year earlier for a second round pick.
Maybe Stevie Y has a tall goalie fetish. Eddie Lack for another couple of TBay's prospects?

 

[604]

After yesterday, Lu is simply the backup for the rest of the year... No longer trade bait.

Everyone always loves the backup here!

 

[LolClarkson*]

Were they buyers? Seems to me he made a hockey trade. Young promising forward for young promising goaltender. or tried to make a hockey trade. I think he made a mistake.

He also moved crap for crap in the Bergeron for Hall deal.

i wouldn't call that being a buyer. I think he's just going cheap on goaltending and will happily go with a Bishop/Lindback tandem next year. And then (possibly) not so happily be looking to fix his goaltending this time next year because quite frankly at 26 years of age Bishop has found himself at the back of line in two organizations now. that usually happens for a reason....Kiprusoff's don't tend to happen all that often.

So basically both Tampa and Toronto are going to risk it with unproven goal tending. If they both hit the skids then Gillis will be in a good spot next year.

I personally think they will both cave as early as this week

 

[tantalum]

Trading 4 picks and a possible Calder winner, for two questionable goalie options seems like a sure fire recipe for success.
Especially when Bishop was picked up by Ottawa a year earlier for a second round pick.

Hey I'm not arguing he has paid a lot for potentially two run of the mill backups. But at the deadline he wasn't a buyer which is what i was responding to.

 

[Commander Clueless]

the problem with that theory is that Nonis was working REALLY hard to get Kiprusoff to change his mind and even through extra years at good money at him. He wasn't bringing Kiprusoff in to sit on the bench and watch Reimer develop.

Now he may not have wanted (for whatever reason) to move Scrivens and two picks for Luongo but he was more than happy to put Reimer in a secondary role for at least a couple of years.

I've thought about that too.

To paraphrase, Nonis said that they "had two NHL goalies and were happy with how they played, but if they can add support they will".

The key difference here is the length for which Kiprusoff was signed vs Luongo's length. It gives them the option to move on from Kipper as early as next year whereas if Vancouver is having trouble moving Luongo right now, I can only imagine how hard it would be to move him in a couple years when Reimer asks for a raise.

I don't think Kipper would take over as the starter to be honest. I think a tandem would be much more likely especially considering Kiprusoff's horrid stats so far this season. I always saw him as more of an expensive backup option, similar to how Luongo is for Vancouver right now (except Luongo is better IMO).

Nonis' biggest fear in my opinion (and it is a legitimate fear) is in a couple years, what if Reimer improves as planned and asks for a raise similar to Schneider? The Leafs end up in a similar situation to what Vancouver has now except worse because Lu is older. Kipper would have given more flexibility in this case.

All my theory of course.

I honestly hope Luongo goes somewhere where he can be the pure starter for the forseeable future without any goalie controversy. He deserves it.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Hey I'm not arguing he has paid a lot for potentially two run of the mill backups. But at the deadline he wasn't a buyer which is what i was responding to.

No, I was agreeing with you. Just quoted your post because it followed the chain.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Nice levelheaded post. I take back my comment about wishing all Leaf fans misery

Thanks man. Leafs are cursed badly enough as it is.

EDIT: I really do hope Luongo goes somewhere where he can keep away from goalie controversy. If he went to Toronto you'd honestly see one right away which would suck for him (although if he plays like he can Toronto falls in love with their goalies when they do well).

As an added note I think Toronto would have traded for him if they were further along this "rebuild" process to be honest.

 

[tantalum]

So basically both Tampa and Toronto are going to risk it with unproven goal tending. If they both hit the skids then Gillis will be in a good spot next year.

I personally think they will both cave as early as this week

The Jets as well IMO. Or the Caps. Good odds that at least one of those three SE teams miss due to poor goaltending down the stretch. At least IMO. After all they've all had extremely poor goaltending for big stretches of the season.

Then you have the Flyers beat guys saying Bryz will be bought out. Reports out of Buffalo that they are tired of Miller speaking out of turn etc. I think the market is potentially a bit better in the summer. Toronto won't get him though. They burned bridges with Gillis and Luongo in this. Don't expect a huge return but then again you just never know. Things can turn on a dime in the NHL. Did anyone expect 40 goal scoring Gaborik getting moved at the deadline coming into the season?

 

[tantalum]

Nonis' biggest fear in my opinion (and it is a legitimate fear) is in a couple years, what if Reimer improves as planned and asks for a raise similar to Schneider? The Leafs end up in a similar situation to what Vancouver has now except worse because Lu is older. Kipper would have given more flexibility in this case.

All my theory of course.

I honestly hope Luongo goes somewhere where he can be the pure starter for the forseeable future without any goalie controversy. He deserves it.

My opinion...Nonis' fear is always what if this happens several years down the road? The problem is that while you need to have some broad based strokes a GM really ought not to be concentrating much beyond the next year or two. He gets thinking too far down the line and he gets paralyzed on what he needs to do in the here and now. Now I can understand his thinking but you also have to understand that it isn't everyday a playoff team who has questions at a position gets offered what amounts to be a guaranteed multi-year solution for that position for peanuts. He may like Reimer but there are question marks to be sure. He could have removed the question marks from that position for his entire tenure as GM and he chose not to. It's a big decision to say the least. if Reimer falls flat on his face and can't sustain decent play Nonis is going to be scrambling in the off season and he has pissed away a potential good playoff seeding. In vancouver we witnessed him cross his fingers in a similar manner with the forward ranks. It got him fired.

 

[xtr3m]

@darenmillard
Final tie game in NHL history was played on April 4th, 2004. Carolina Kevin Weeks vs Florida Roberto Luongo

 

[baxtefer]

Where there's smoke there's fire. Too many people, even ones who have been against Gillis in the past (and would have it in their interest to make him look bad), are reporting the same thing.

Also, see previous page. He could be telling the truth because he was never formally asked but it would be foolish to assume there wasn't a list of teams.

Well both Gills and Lu could be telling the truth....

It very well could have been Gilles Lupien (Lu's agent) who nixed the proposed trade at the draft, citing his client's preference for Florida.

So, Gillis proposes a trade, gets shot down by Lupien, and Luongo is never formally asked to waive.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

My opinion...Nonis' fear is always what if this happens several years down the road? The problem is that while you need to have some broad based strokes a GM really ought not to be concentrating much beyond the next year or two. He gets thinking too far down the line and he gets paralyzed on what he needs to do in the here and now. Now I can understand his thinking but you also have to understand that it isn't everyday a playoff team who has questions at a position gets offered what amounts to be a guaranteed multi-year solution for that position for peanuts. He may like Reimer but there are question marks to be sure. He could have removed the question marks from that position for his entire tenure as GM and he chose not to. It's a big decision to say the least. if Reimer falls flat on his face and can't sustain decent play Nonis is going to be scrambling in the off season and he has pissed away a potential good playoff seeding. In vancouver we witnessed him cross his fingers in a similar manner with the forward ranks. It got him fired.

I agree with all of this.
Nonis acts like a GM of a small market franchise.
I can see why Tallon and Yzerman would be scared of taking on this type of financial commitment. These are real dollars for a cash strapped team. For the Leafs, the richest team in the NHL, these are Finger, Komi type issues that only come up in 4 years. The owners are raking in money and recoup Luongo's cost by going one extra playoff round.
I don't see Nonis as ever getting a team over the hump until he moves beyond this cautious attitude.