The Legacy of Ken Holland

[Steve Yzerlland]

I am really not liking the praise Holland is getting for leaving the team with some pieces for the future, or good job on starting the rebuild. Holland started cementing this team's downfall almost immediately after the last cup and he held onto playoff hopes with teams patched together worse than Brendan Shannahan's shoulder pads. I don't care what he did in 'his' rebuild the fact that he started the rebuild 5-6 years after it 'should' have started is part of his legacy. Let there be no mistake, he drove this team into the ground when it had no cup window. The fact that he took his foot of the gas means nothing when he already drove the team over a cliff.

Amen!

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

 

[NickH8]

What does that second quote even mean, lol

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Why are we quoting his position on analytics from 2014. We hired analytics people after that... Okay, good digging Marek.

To be clear I think we can do more in that department and yes I have never seen them as the be all end all. I think Yzerman has struck up the right balance there in terms of he uses them as a tool. But I don't think Holland kept ignoring them, it seems that was one of the shifts from Babcock to Blashill too in terms of his next coach cared a lot more about that stuff and he was willing to use them more.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Why are we quoting his position on analytics from 2014. We hired analytics people after that... Okay, good digging Marek.

To be clear I think we can do more in that department and yes I have never seen them as the be all end all. I think Yzerman has struck up the right balance there in terms of he uses them as a tool. But I don't think Holland kept ignoring them, it seems that was one of the shifts from Babcock to Blashill too in terms of his next coach cared a lot more about that stuff and he was willing to use them more.

So who takes Holland's "promotion" job he just got with Detroit?

 

[Coach Nate]

So who takes Holland's "promotion" job he just got with Detroit?

You mean the completely made up job created just for Holland so he would not pitch a fit?

I'd say either
A) no one
B) Yzerman

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So who takes Holland's "promotion" job he just got with Detroit?

Not that it had anything to do with what I was talking about...

Who took Bowman's job?

Having more good hockey minds on your side is a good thing, we need to build that braintrust back up. Hopefully Holland passes on Edmonton and enjoys his role as Steve's senior advisor, it would be to our benefit long term in my opinion. He is a man our GM, ownership and players all trust, your vendetta against Holland is a little sad. Do you see know value in a HHOF at all? seriously...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Not that it had anything to do with what I was talking about...

Who took Bowman's job?

Having more good hockey minds on your side is a good thing, we need to build that braintrust back up. Hopefully Holland passes on Edmonton and enjoys his role as Steve's senior advisor, it would be to our benefit long term in my opinion. He is a man our GM, ownership and players all trust, your vendetta against Holland is a little sad. Do you see know value in a HHOF at all? seriously...

Holland behind 2011-2019 was one of the worst GM's in the NHL. Go look at the majority of Oiler fans and they aren't happy with him going there. What's your vendetta with me being happy he is finally gone?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Holland behind 2011-2019 was one of the worst GM's in the NHL. Go look at the majority of Oiler fans and they aren't happy with him going there. What's your vendetta with me being happy he is finally gone?

In his legacy tread, um the way you ignore his total contributions to the Detroit Red Wings organization. But your right to each their own.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

In his legacy tread, um the way you ignore his total contributions to the Detroit Red Wings organization. But your right to each their own.

Terrible decisions are a part of his legacy. And are the most recent memories in my mind. We can't pretend like he left us in great shape! We have the highest cap in the NHL a list of terrible contracts and the worst d core in the NHL, sorry if I'm not still high fiving about 2008...

 

[LeftWingLocked]

One of the worst GM's during the last 10 years. Bad contracts, bad draft picks, couldn't draft a goalie to save his life, couldn't make a player for player trade. Good riddance. This is like winning the cup again.

 

[NickH8]

One of the best GM's in the past two years. Only signed short term deals. Has drafted very promising players. Has a couple goalies in the system that look good. Has been a savant at deadline deals. I'll miss him and wish him luck in Edmonton. Thanks to him we will win the cup again.

 

[Henkka]

One of the best GM's in the past two years. Only signed short term deals. Has drafted very promising players. Has a couple goalies in the system that look good. Has been a savant at deadline deals. I'll miss him and wish him luck in Edmonton.

2019 - Bowey for Jensen
2017 - Wilson for Sheahan
2015 - Cole for Janmark+Bäckman
2014 - Legwand for Järnkrok+Eaves
2012 - Quincey for Piche
2010 - Tollefsen for Leino
2007 - Bertuzzi for Matthias
2007 - Calder for Williams
2004 - Lang for Fleischmann
2003 - Schneider for Avery+Kuznetsov
2002 - Slegr for Butsayev
2001 - Hasek for Kozlov
2000 - Larionov for Golubovsky
2000 - Gill for Audet
1999 - Clark for Hodgson
1999 - Chelios for Eriksson
1998 - Brown for Sykora
1998 - Pushor for Mironov


Never did player for player trades!

And who really cares how the trades are made?

If he trades only picks for a player and then, on some other trade, trades a player for a picks, it makes the same case?

Doesn't matter at all. Just a bash-boy agenda.

Ken Holland went and did eat a carrot. Bash boy comes here and will inform how he did it wrong. Yzerman will eat the carrot in a right way.

 

[Oilers in NS]

One of the best GM's in the past two years. Only signed short term deals. Has drafted very promising players. Has a couple goalies in the system that look good. Has been a savant at deadline deals. I'll miss him and wish him luck in Edmonton. Thanks to him we will win the cup again.

Going to ask you because you sound like a positive person. Going to any Canadian city can be very frustrating, especially in Edmonton. Can Holland turn the Oilers around? Chiarelli has sunk us very deep

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Going to ask you because you sound like a positive person. Going to any Canadian city can be very frustrating, especially in Edmonton. Can Holland turn the Oilers around? Chiarelli has sunk us very deep

Holland should be fine, you need a little luck in this business. However, he will implement a plan and develop talent on all levels. He will develop scouts, management people and players alike. That is really his strength it is what guys like Yzerman, Nill, Bowman and company constantly talked about in terms of what he does very well at.

Now he has had a vice gripe on the media in Detroit, so that should be interesting at his next stop. Though he does have very good relationships with a lot of the big mover and shakers in the league. He seems close with McKenzie, he does appearances on Leafs Lunch a decent amount, he understands that part of this job. He won't give a lot away in the media, he is pretty good there so get used to his cliches.

If he can win a cup in Edmonton he cements himself as a top 5 GM in the history of the sport. As it is, it would be tough to see him out of the top 10 on one of those lists.

 

[Winger98]

Holland should be fine, you need a little luck in this business. However, he will implement a plan and develop talent on all levels. He will develop scouts, management people and players alike. That is really his strength it is what guys like Yzerman, Nill, Bowman and company constantly talked about in terms of what he does very well at.

Now he has had a vice gripe on the media in Detroit, so that should be interesting at his next stop. Though he does have very good relationships with a lot of the big mover and shakers in the league. He seems close with McKenzie, he does appearances on Leafs Lunch a decent amount, he understands that part of this job. He won't give a lot away in the media, he is pretty good there so get used to his cliches.

If he can win a cup in Edmonton he cements himself as a top 5 GM in the history of the sport. As it is, it would be tough to see him out of the top 10 on one of those lists.

I'd also add he is supposed to be a very good scout. We don't see it mentioned often, but Detroit's scouts always praise the guy for what he sees in players when he goes out and starts watching in person. I know Wright is getting a lot of credit (and blame) for recent drafts, but I think Holland also stepped back into a bigger role when Nill left. And we started grabbing better talent again.

 

[Henkka]

The Final Legacy of Ken Holland is:

The Leader of the Greatest Hockey University with numerous Graduates. This University was called the Detroit Red Wings management.

How many others who worked under him are now at other places?

Pricipal by himself:
GM - Ken Holland (Edmonton Oilers)

Graduates:
GM - Jim Nill (Dallas Stars)
GM - Steve Yzerman (Detroit Red Wings)
Scouting Director - Joe McDonnell (Dallas Stars)
Scouting Director - Tyler Wright (going probably to Edmonton)
Head Coach - Mike Babcock (Toronto Maple leafs, highest paid NHL head coach)
Head Coach - Bill Peters (Calgary Flames)
Head Coach - Jeff Blashill (Detroit Red Wings)
Head Coach - Todd McLellan (San Jose Sharks, Edmonton Oilers, currently Los Angeles Kings)
Assistant Coach - Jim Hiller (Toronto Maple Leafs)
Assistant Coach - Todd Nelson (Dallas Stars)
Assistant Coach - Paul MacLean (former assistant for Detroit, former head for Ottawa, latest Assistant for Anaheim)
Assistant Coach - Brad McCrimmon (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl Head Coach, R.I.P.)
Scout - Pat Verbeek (first hired to Detroit, then Tampa Bay, probable next Red Wings scouting Director)
Scout - Mark Leach (Dallas Stars)
Scout - Stacy Roest (Tampa Bay)
Scout - Jamie Pushor (Tampa Bay)

The list is endless.

The Legacy will be endless. It's an unmeasurable impact for hockey in general for 3-4 decades.

 

[The Zermanator]

End of an era, boy when that ball starts rolling it rolls quick.

I think the 2012-2015/16 period didn't hurt his legacy too much. He'll be remembered primarily for one of the most successful runs of all time by a GM between the mid-90s and ~2010/11. Then there's a few darker years with declining success, uninspired signings, bad contracts, and too much complacency. But fortunately he bookended his career on high notes, devoting his last couple years to rebuilding the team, adding some nice pieces, and handing off a team with a real solid foundation for Yzerman to take over.

Thanks for the memories, Ken!

 

[ricky0034]

End of an era, boy when that ball starts rolling it rolls quick.

I think the 2012-2015/16 period didn't hurt his legacy too much. He'll be remembered primarily for one of the most successful runs of all time by a GM between the mid-90s and ~2010/11. Then there's a few darker years with declining success, uninspired signings, bad contracts, and too much complacency. But fortunately he bookended his career on high notes, devoting his last couple years to rebuilding the team, adding some nice pieces, and handing off a team with a real solid foundation for Yzerman to take over.

Thanks for the memories, Ken!

I think as far as his overall legacy goes a lot will depend on how he does in Edmonton

he does well and I think the down years are mostly forgotten

he does poorly and they're probably viewed as the start of a trend and his career is looked at as two distinct halves overall

 

[The Zermanator]

I think as far as his overall legacy goes a lot will depend on how he does in Edmonton

he does well and I think the down years are mostly forgotten

he does poorly and they're probably viewed as the start of a trend and his career is looked at as two distinct halves overall

That's a fair point. I was talking more about his legacy in Detroit though, now that the chapter is closed.

I think he will do well in Edmonton for what it's worth. The one thing he hasn't really managed to do in his career, which is acquire an elite player (thank Hakan for D and Z, Hossa was 1 year), is already done in Edmonton. Now all he has to do there are the other things he's shown himself mostly competent at doing. Drafting a good supporting cast, building a quality staff, etc.

The two question marks for me are that first, he can't afford any more bad contracts there. He's been prone to handing them out occasionally but Chiarelli didn't exactly leave him much wiggle room. And second will be finding a #1 dman, which we all know has proven very elusive to him for many years.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Holland should be fine, you need a little luck in this business. However, he will implement a plan and develop talent on all levels. He will develop scouts, management people and players alike. That is really his strength it is what guys like Yzerman, Nill, Bowman and company constantly talked about in terms of what he does very well at.

Now he has had a vice gripe on the media in Detroit, so that should be interesting at his next stop. Though he does have very good relationships with a lot of the big mover and shakers in the league. He seems close with McKenzie, he does appearances on Leafs Lunch a decent amount, he understands that part of this job. He won't give a lot away in the media, he is pretty good there so get used to his cliches.

If he can win a cup in Edmonton he cements himself as a top 5 GM in the history of the sport. As it is, it would be tough to see him out of the top 10 on one of those lists.

Thx for the info. Detroit is a good hockey city. Edmonton media and its fans can become ruthless. What fans in Detroit would vision as good, Edmonton fans would flip it bad

 

[SuperScript29]

Holland is seriously being underrated. I get the generous contracts he gave to the vets, but you gotta understand that it's not easy transitioning from one of the best franchises in the league that constantly competes for the cup to a rebuilding one. Kenny jumped into a situation where he had a lineup of superstars and his top priority was to maintain that core. Eventually the inevitable happened and when it finally hit, Kenny did his best to draft good players and rebuild the core.

While I still think we're a few years away, I really like some of the young guys we have on the team. I think Kenny left Stevie some really good pieces to work with for the future.

 

[Henkka]

Thx for the info. Detroit is a good hockey city. Edmonton media and its fans can become ruthless. What fans in Detroit would vision as good, Edmonton fans would flip it bad

This board has been a good example what negative fan base can be. We have lots of same negativity in here, but in 10-times smaller scale. Thank god I'm not Edmonton fan and reading HF Boards.

 

[SantosHalper]

Like i said before, thank you Ken Holland. True Red Wings legend. Best of luck in the future, and of course you're welcome back anytime.

 

[cjeagle]

I guess I spoke too soon. Ken Holland likes to talk about loyalty, but when a big salary is dangled in front of him and the opportunity to be a GM again is offered, he jumps ship.