The Legacy of Ken Holland

[FissionFire]

I’ll update the OP this weekend to cap what is a great career as a GM in Detroit.

 

[DocWho81]

I thank Ken for the good he has done, and wish him well but look forward to the next era for the club. He was neither the worst GM of all time-Ned Harkness, anyone?-nor the best. We won a lot but also not as much as we should have. He went with Lewis over Babcock, when he should have told Lewis to take his mustache and split. He let Federov walk, twice. (I am including the offer sheet) He handed out too many NTCs to players that had not earned them. Yet, at the end, he had us in position to become a good team again. I give him credit where it is due and think that while he probably should have moved on around 2012 or so, that his rebuilding efforts the last two seasons or so rescue his final years from being a dumpster fire.

Glad Steve is with the team, and glad Ken finally moved on.

 

[Henkka]

I thank Ken for the good he has done, and wish him well but look forward to the next era for the club. He was neither the worst GM of all time-Ned Harkness, anyone?-nor the best. We won a lot but also not as much as we should have. He went with Lewis over Babcock, when he should have told Lewis to take his mustache and split. He let Federov walk, twice. (I am including the offer sheet) He handed out too many NTCs to players that had not earned them. Yet, at the end, he had us in position to become a good team again. I give him credit where it is due and think that while he probably should have moved on around 2012 or so, that his rebuilding efforts the last two seasons or so rescue his final years from being a dumpster fire.

What are you smoking.

NTCs will mean nothing. Holland just traded a player with NTC. Yzerman has thrown those probably more.

Lewis over Babcock? How can you sign a guy who is coach for Anaheim?

Fedorov walk, twice? Fedorov sitting out and waiting for an offer-sheet, is not walking out? For christ sakes, he signed him and we did win the Cup on that year. Nobody call that case as some kind of mistake. It was just a problem which was solved and life continued.

 

[Retire91]

Certainly thankful for the first half of his career and the role he played in creating a HOF legacy. Unfortunately he didn't look in the mirror and realize how ineffective he became after the last cup and especially after Lidstrom retired. I think Daytsuk not even wanting to play the final year of his contract spoke volumes in how much he deteriorated the team with lifetime contracts to mediocrity and trading the future for rentals and as fans we all payed the price trying to root for the team without a single elite prime player. Holland was was the right guy for the job building a 3 cup franchise, but after that he lingered after his expiration date like Dan Cleary. I think the organization's desire to extend the streak is a lot at fault I just don't know how much of that was under his control and how much he truly thought they were still contenders all those years and was pushing that agenda. All in all I think he wasted 7-8 years of the franchise's life that we could have been rebuilding and did an even larger disservice by sitting in Yzerman's way when there was a chance for Stevie Y to have been the GM so much sooner.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I thank Ken for the good he has done, and wish him well but look forward to the next era for the club. He was neither the worst GM of all time-Ned Harkness, anyone?-nor the best. We won a lot but also not as much as we should have. He went with Lewis over Babcock, when he should have told Lewis to take his mustache and split. He let Federov walk, twice. (I am including the offer sheet) He handed out too many NTCs to players that had not earned them. Yet, at the end, he had us in position to become a good team again. I give him credit where it is due and think that while he probably should have moved on around 2012 or so, that his rebuilding efforts the last two seasons or so rescue his final years from being a dumpster fire.

Glad Steve is with the team, and glad Ken finally moved on.

Ken Holland is the best GM in the history of this franchise. Just ahead of Jack Adams in my opinion.

I am glad he set Stevie up with some nice pieces before stepping aside.

Also for the record both the things you blamed him for off the start were decisions made by Mike Ilitch in terms of Lewis (A promise made by Ownership to Bowman) and the Fedorov negotiation problems.

 

[Henkka]

Ken Holland is the best GM in the history of this franchise. Just ahead of Jack Adams in my opinion.

And It really was the best feeling ever on the press, when Ken Holland told how he felt that Steve Yzerman would be better GM than himself at this point and and on.

That's really remarkable thinking. To see yourself as a pretty good GM, but also see that some other guy is the best in the business, so you you hire him because of the franchise.

I have nothing but cried for two days when these moves were made and how they speak. How unselfish old Holland could be when he sees the successor. "Yzerman is better than me. I have to step aside. He is better for the Red Wings future. So we have to do this thing."

That was unbelieveable to hear. We kind of knew that, but it's really different, when the old mastermind will say it finally by himself on public.

And it was just the "ugly" truth from Holland. We know how superior Yzerman from his Tampa reputations and actions will be.


Fun times ahead. Totally superior fun times.

 

[Claypool]

And It really was the best feeling ever on the press, when Ken Holland told how he felt that Steve Yzerman would be better GM than himself at this point and and on.

That's really remarkable thinking. To see yourself as a pretty good GM, but also see that some other guy is the best in the business, so you you hire him because of the franchise.

I have nothing but cried for two days when these moves were made and how they speak. How unselfish old Holland could be when he sees the successor. "Yzerman is better than me. I have to step aside. He is better for the Red Wings future. So we have to do this thing."

That was unbelieveable to hear. We kind of knew that, but it's really different, when the old mastermind will say it finally by himself on public.

And it was just the "ugly" truth from Holland. We know how superior Yzerman from his Tampa reputations and actions will be.


Fun times ahead. Totally superior fun times.

The Red Wings are bigger than Ken Holland. He knows that and that's why he stepped aside, much like Devellano did in 1997.

Holland also saying Yzerman is back "where he belongs" indicates to me he may have regret not giving Yzerman the job back in 2010 and is making amends for it.

 

[Bondurant]

Holland also saying Yzerman is back "where he belongs" indicates to me he may have regret not giving Yzerman the job back in 2010 and is making amends for it.

Perhaps this is true. Holland had a great run but he should have stepped aside when asked in '10. Nothing we can do about that now. Looking forward to the future and thankful that Holland finally came to his senses.

 

[Henkka]

The Red Wings are bigger than Ken Holland. He knows that and that's why he stepped aside, much like Devellano did in 1997.

Holland also saying Yzerman is back "where he belongs" indicates to me he may have regret not giving Yzerman the job back in 2010 and is making amends for it.

That 2010 is bullshit.

Stevie had a nice learning lesson at Tampa in 8 years. He wasn't perfect. But he is now.

We would have struggled with him from straight on GM duty. He did his practise job, and now, I think will be the master predator GM against anybody for the years to be come. He woudn't be as good without that Tampa duty. It was great to see things from outside (Detroit), and now take the charge after be some years outside.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Jim Nill was always the problem for step aside in 2010, Stevie himself said that during the press conference and by the way why in the world would I want my GM to step down when he just went to back to back cup finals. They discussed it, but it didn't add up back then.

People like to look at this in a hindsight bubble. Yzerman isn't changing the fact we were steaming towards a cliff. Could he have maybe sold Mike Ilitch on missing the playoffs and stripping it down sooner? I seriously doubt it and he inherits a better situation with Holland taking and steering us through the darkest part of it.

Ken Holland's legacy is that he is a surefire HHOF builder and the greatest GM this franchise has known. I think Yzerman can build a team, we have seen that and I hope we can see that here, but he is going to need luck just like Holland would have needed some luck. In order for Yzerman to unseat Holland in this regard he still has a ways to go. I love the hire but I am confused by some of what is being said. The decision to give him Verbeek was actually probably the biggest misstep and it was to elevate Nill's guy in McDonnell. It's unfortunate and we lost some punch in our drafts for a little bit, but it seems we have somewhat corrected this even before turning it over to Yzerman.

I really do hope Holland stays on, but if he shows up somewhere else I expect him to be successful again though he will need a little luck as that is the nature of the business. I don't believe the game has passed him by at all, just like how Lou sunk down the standings and his run in Jersey was just impossible to keep going forever and he has been good with the Leafs and NYI. I am hopeful however that Holland will remain an advisor, I just sort of doubt it and if he does move on I expect he will have a big impact where he goes next and in a positive way.

 

[Mijatovic]

Noticed a lot more love for Holland these last few days than there ever was for the last 5 years...

 

[SCD]

Mr Ilitch had more influence on team decisions than Chris Ilitch does today. I get the impression that Chris runs this more as a business, than a passion like his father. Mr I wanted to win, at all cost. That was Holland's mandate...Win Now. Unfortunately, rebuilding on the fly was no longer sustainable when all the futures have been used. Holland did an excellent job, but he made mistakes. But, everything needs to be looked at in context with the owner and CEO.

Yzerman should benefit from having more freedom to make decisions, but we will see if Chris Ilitch financially supports his vision. I think this team will always be near the cap limit. I am referring to expanding the scouting and management staff, as well as using cap space to buy dead contracts for assets.

 

[Henkka]

Based on the Athletic article, Holland had proposed on the GM meeting to get all 19-year-olds be possible to send in AHL.

This is a CBA agreement with Canadian junior system. Would be good to have. CHL would lose some of their stars faster for NHL, but at the moment it hinders some of the guys development. Also players in Canadian juniors are the "losers" on current situation. Maybe Canadian juniors could match this thing taking more 15-year olds in. Players develop nowadays faster, so new age limits should work.

Jared McIsaac is a perfect example from our guys on this "bubble". Too good in CHL at next year, but not enough good for NHL. Can't be sent on AHL.

 

[Frk It]

Jim Nill was always the problem for step aside in 2010, Stevie himself said that during the press conference and by the way why in the world would I want my GM to step down when he just went to back to back cup finals. They discussed it, but it didn't add up back then.

People like to look at this in a hindsight bubble. Yzerman isn't changing the fact we were steaming towards a cliff. Could he have maybe sold Mike Ilitch on missing the playoffs and stripping it down sooner? I seriously doubt it and he inherits a better situation with Holland taking and steering us through the darkest part of it.

Ken Holland's legacy is that he is a surefire HHOF builder and the greatest GM this franchise has known. I think Yzerman can build a team, we have seen that and I hope we can see that here, but he is going to need luck just like Holland would have needed some luck. In order for Yzerman to unseat Holland in this regard he still has a ways to go. I love the hire but I am confused by how some of what is being said. The decision to give him Verbeek was actually probably the biggest misstep and it was to elevate Nill's guy in McDonnell. It's unfortunate and we lost some punch in our drafts for a little bit, but it seems we have somewhat corrected this even before turning it over to Yzerman.

I really do hope Holland stays on, but if he shows up somewhere else I expect him to be successful again though he will need a little luck as that is the nature of the business. I don't believe the game has passed him by at all, just like how Lou sunk down the standings and his run in Jersey was just impossible to keep going forever and he has been good with the Leafs and NYI. I am hopeful however that Holland will remain an advisor, I just sort of doubt it and if he does move on I expect he will have a big impact where he goes next and in a positive way.

Yzerman is much better equipped now to come in and do well than he was 9 years ago. As much as 2013-now has been a frustrating ride for myself, I think this all ended up working out. Feels kind of like things played out how they were supposed to in the end.

 

[PullHard]

His legacy is cemented as a winner and a Red Wing through and through.

He had a really dark stretch from roughly 2010-2015, how much of that is "win at all costs" coming from ownership we don't know.

I end up being truly thankful for his efforts, this team had a lot of success through his work.

Thanks Kenny!

 

[cjeagle]

I am just glad that unlike many teams in the NHL or other leagues for that matter, we have such a solid and stable ownership and management situation. Under the Illitches, we have not seen the kind of abrupt, dramatic changes that you see in other teams.

Mike Illitch first hired Devellano as GM, who gracefully stepped aside to allow his prodigy Holland to take over the franchise. 2 decades later, we now see Holland step aside(and from what I have read actively recruited his successor) to allow Steve Yzerman who he mentored for 4 years and excelled elsewhere, to take over as GM for the benefit of the organization. How often do you see such smooth and stable transitions in professional sports?

The Redwings has established a reputation for being a first class organization that treats their staff, players, agents, officials and other teams with respect. One GM with a reputation for class steps down and another GM with the same reputation and respected throughout the league takes over. This is one of the reasons the Redwings is my favorite professional sports team.

 

[DocWho81]

Ken Holland is the best GM in the history of this franchise. Just ahead of Jack Adams in my opinion.

I am glad he set Stevie up with some nice pieces before stepping aside.

Also for the record both the things you blamed him for off the start were decisions made by Mike Ilitch in terms of Lewis (A promise made by Ownership to Bowman) and the Fedorov negotiation problems.

Granted on Federov-Ilitch also let his pride push scherzer out of Detroit, for the Tigers-but in the case of Lewis, I remember an article when Babcock was hired where Holland said “I told Mike the Red Wings do not hire first time head coaches”

Which is funny, being Babcock was replacing Lewis, who was a first time head coach. Promises or not.

No question, Ken made a lot of bad decisions over the years, as did others. I give him credit for what seems to be a good start to the rebuild, but wish he had begun at least a year earlier. Again, I think Ilitch passing eased the burden to “keep the streak alive” and get down to brass tacks.

 

[TheClap]

That 2010 is bull****.

Stevie had a nice learning lesson at Tampa in 8 years. He wasn't perfect. But he is now.

We would have struggled with him from straight on GM duty. He did his practise job, and now, I think will be the master predator GM against anybody for the years to be come. He woudn't be as good without that Tampa duty. It was great to see things from outside (Detroit), and now take the charge after be some years outside.

If what Yzerman did in Tampa is any indication of what he would have done in Detroit over the last 8 years, I'd have preferred that.
Yzerman's "practice" was better than nearly everything Ken Holland did in that time. Yzerman even took his master to the cleaners, stealing that 1st round pick for Kyle F'ing Quincey.

 

[Retire91]

I am really not liking the praise Holland is getting for leaving the team with some pieces for the future, or good job on starting the rebuild. Holland started cementing this team's downfall almost immediately after the last cup and he held onto playoff hopes with teams patched together worse than Brendan Shannahan's shoulder pads. I don't care what he did in 'his' rebuild the fact that he started the rebuild 5-6 years after it 'should' have started is part of his legacy. Let there be no mistake, he drove this team into the ground when it had no cup window. The fact that he took his foot of the gas means nothing when he already drove the team over a cliff.

 

[The Zermanator]

I am really not liking the praise Holland is getting for leaving the team with some pieces for the future, or good job on starting the rebuild. Holland started cementing this team's downfall almost immediately after the last cup and he held onto playoff hopes with teams patched together worse than Brendan Shannahan's shoulder pads. I don't care what he did in 'his' rebuild the fact that he started the rebuild 5-6 years after it 'should' have started is part of his legacy. Let there be no mistake, he drove this team into the ground when it had no cup window. The fact that he took his foot of the gas means nothing when he already drove the team over a cliff.

This team was going into the ground either way, he just shortsightedly delayed the inevitable. A lapse in judgment for which he was criticized intensely. But he's stepped down as GM now so people are rightfully taking a more global view on the man's career and legacy as Detroit's GM. No other GM, except maybe Stan Bowman (who had the benefit of several lottery picks), have enjoyed the success he has.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This team was going into the ground either way, he just shortsightedly delayed the inevitable. A lapse in judgment for which he was criticized intensely. But he's stepped down as GM now so people are rightfully taking a more global view on the man's career and legacy as Detroit's GM. No other GM, except maybe Stan Bowman (who had the benefit of several lottery picks), have enjoyed the success he has.

Sam Pollock, Bill Torrey, Glen Sather and Lou those are really who he lines up with, the all-time greats are the company Holland keeps, he is a surefire HHOF builder.

 

[Retire91]

I absolutely agree. Global view he is up there with the greatest.

 

[cjeagle]

Kenny is still going to be active and involved. It sounds like he is going to help advise Steve and watch games both at the juniors and pro level. Having an experienced and successful former GM and scout like Holland advising Yzerman is a luxury very few teams have.

 

[Del Preston]

Nick Kypreos just said on HNIC that the Oilers' GM opening might be Ken Holland's job to lose.

Holland apparently turned down interest a couple weeks ago but the Oilers circled back recently and now it might happen.