The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[JaegerDice]

The one player who really should have been kept, BWC assertions notwithstanding.

It was basically between him and Sharp given he was making 3 mil at the time he left and jumped to 5.2 the next season, and we did pretty well with Sharp over the next 5 years.

Would I like Byfuglien on this team? Sure. Would I want him for 7.5 million? Hell no. Even Winnipeg fans have voiced the same displeasures about the games he takes off for large stretches in his time there.

He's having a great playoff run though, and has been fun to watch. Good for him. Wouldn't be sad to see him get a second cup after so long.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Buff is just a monster. Imagine how good he would have been if he took care of himself coming up.

 

[JaegerDice]

He would have been drafted a lot higher than 245th if he had even half a **** to give about taking care of himself, that's for sure.

 

[ChiHawks10]

It was basically between him and Sharp given he was making 3 mil at the time he left and jumped to 5.2 the next season, and we did pretty well with Sharp over the next 5 years.

Would I like Byfuglien on this team? Sure. Would I want him for 7.5 million? Hell no. Even Winnipeg fans have voiced the same displeasures about the games he takes off for large stretches in his time there.

He's having a great playoff run though, and has been fun to watch. Good for him. Wouldn't be sad to see him get a second cup after so long.

If the Peg wins the Cup, he's gotta be the shoe-in for CS right now.

 

[JaegerDice]

If the Peg wins the Cup, he's gotta be the shoe-in for CS right now.

I guess I agree with that on the basis of the headlines and coverage (ie hype) he's getting for his play. Though I'd give it to one of Schiefele or Wheeler at this point, since they're leading the team in points and facing top competition.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I guess I agree with that on the basis of the headlines and coverage (ie hype) he's getting for his play. Though I'd give it to one of Schiefele or Wheeler at this point, since they're leading the team in points and facing top competition.

Yeah, I can see it for any of those three. I still think Buff, as a D, playing at a PPG level, is going to have a very good shot at it if they win. He's only a couple points back of Schief or Wheeler, yeah?

 

[JaegerDice]

Yeah, I can see it for any of those three. I still think Buff, as a D, playing at a PPG level, is going to have a very good shot at it if they win. He's only a couple points back of Schief or Wheeler, yeah?

Yeah, only 3.

He has a good shot. Wouldn't hate seeing it either. Not to get all SJW, as I honestly don't mean it in that way, but it would be pretty cool to see the first African American player to win the Conn Smythe (I'm pretty sure?) just on the basis of 'I remember when' type stuff.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The one player who really should have been kept, BWC assertions notwithstanding.

So who goes to keep him?

Sharp? Hammer?

Lets not forget Byfuglien wanted to go back to D so if we move Hammer the Hawks D would be greatly weakened and they would have had to cut more salary to fit Buff longterm rather then Hammer's 3.5M going forward from 2010

So if Sharp is guy they move we are much weaker offensively but for the dozen or so games Buff shows up he can be force

Again I enjoyed Byfuglien's performance in 2010 run but the Hawks made right move trading him as he was not a part of core

And that core won 2 cups and lost in a WCF without Byfuglien so for once I gotta say good call Stanley!

If Hawks move Sharp or Hammer (And whatever else we need to fit Byfuglien longterm) they may never win cup in either 2013 or 2015. Keeping Byfuglien may have been what closed our window prematurely

 

[ChiHawks10]

So who goes to keep him?

Sharp? Hammer?

Lets not forget Byfuglien wanted to go back to D so if we move Hammer the Hawks D would be greatly weakened and they would have had to cut more salary to fit Buff longterm rather then Hammer's 3.5M going forward from 2010

So if Sharp is guy they move we are much weaker offensively but for the dozen or so games Buff shows up he can be force

Again I enjoyed Byfuglien's performance in 2010 run but the Hawks made right move trading him as he was not a part of core

And that core won 2 cups and lost in a WCF without Byfuglien so for once I gotta say good call Stanley!

If Hawks move Sharp or Hammer (And whatever else we need to fit Byfuglien longterm) they may never win cup in either 2013 or 2015. Keeping Byfuglien may have been what closed our window prematurely

I don't disagree with any of this, honestly. I can wish that we had been able to keep Buff, and not lose anyone. It's not realistic, but it doesn't change the fact that I wish we could have kept Buff out of all the guys who have left to this point.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So who goes to keep him?

Sharp? Hammer?

Lets not forget Byfuglien wanted to go back to D so if we move Hammer the Hawks D would be greatly weakened and they would have had to cut more salary to fit Buff longterm rather then Hammer's 3.5M going forward from 2010

So if Sharp is guy they move we are much weaker offensively but for the dozen or so games Buff shows up he can be force

Again I enjoyed Byfuglien's performance in 2010 run but the Hawks made right move trading him as he was not a part of core

And that core won 2 cups and lost in a WCF without Byfuglien so for once I gotta say good call Stanley!

If Hawks move Sharp or Hammer (And whatever else we need to fit Byfuglien longterm) they may never win cup in either 2013 or 2015. Keeping Byfuglien may have been what closed our window prematurely

So Stanley made the right choice, is what you are saying?

 

[BK]

So who goes to keep him?

Sharp? Hammer?

Lets not forget Byfuglien wanted to go back to D so if we move Hammer the Hawks D would be greatly weakened and they would have had to cut more salary to fit Buff longterm rather then Hammer's 3.5M going forward from 2010

So if Sharp is guy they move we are much weaker offensively but for the dozen or so games Buff shows up he can be force

Again I enjoyed Byfuglien's performance in 2010 run but the Hawks made right move trading him as he was not a part of core

And that core won 2 cups and lost in a WCF without Byfuglien so for once I gotta say good call Stanley!

If Hawks move Sharp or Hammer (And whatever else we need to fit Byfuglien longterm) they may never win cup in either 2013 or 2015. Keeping Byfuglien may have been what closed our window prematurely

I agree.

Buff the player is/was more of a myth in Chicago than a reality. Amazing talent that was very inconsistent.

 

[clydesdale line]

So Stanley made the right choice, is what you are saying?

He did say "for once good call Stanley!"

 

[Hawkaholic]

He did say "for once good call Stanley!"

Missed that, I stopped reading his post halfway through, as that is what I am used to doing with his posts.

 

[kuzy]

So who goes to keep him?

And that core won 2 cups and lost in a WCF without Byfuglien so for once I gotta say good call Stanley!

 

[BobbyJet]

Tallon gave away 2 60+ point players...and the Jack Adams winner. Don't forget firing Gallant. A move that was pretty much unanimously thought of as moronic. If Vegas goes all the way, they should put Tallon's name on that cup too.

My understanding is that Tallon did not fire Gallant. It came directly from moronic owners.

Q needs to go, most agree but Stan is overrated by some around here. It was the best core players in the league that won Hawks those 3 Cups. Now that the core is older the magic is long gone exposing both Q and Stan for what they are.

 

[BK]

My understanding is that Tallon did not fire Gallant. It came directly from moronic owners.

Q needs to go, most agree but Stan is overrated by some around here. It was the best core players in the league that won Hawks those 3 Cups. Now that the core is older the magic is long gone exposing both Q and Stan for what they are.

It was Rowe and Ownership driving it right? I recall them trying to force analytic choices down GGs throat for some reason.

What is Q? What is Stan? Asking what have they been exposed to be. Honest question.

Who would you replace Q with? What about Stan?

I would replace Q with JC or Sheldon Keefe. Montgomery was on my list. I would love to see what Hossa could do behind the bench.

Stan is more complicated and more difficult but I would try to find a way to get Hunter her while keeping Kelly. I would build it around scouting but I think you have to also try and keep the Hawks analytics team around. I would only fire Stan if I thought he was going to make another Seabrook or his drafting slipped.

I obviously agree with one and not the other but the other has used two strikes (Seabrook counts for both).

 

[BobbyJet]

Barry Smith and Colliton are the first folks to come to mind ..... But I think Keenan could be coaxed to come back as HC for a season or two, with Colliton (or Hossa) as assistant. LOL ...Hawks country club members would have a heart attack!

 

[ClydeLee]

Barry Smith and Colliton are the first folks to come to mind ..... But I think Keenan could be coaxed to come back as HC for a season or two, with Colliton (or Hossa) as assistant. LOL ...Hawks country club members would have a heart attack!

This is odd to view Coltion in this way since the most common praise or desire of him by people is not being tied to oldschool behavior... which part of that is having an ahl coach be told he needs to be an NHL assistant before being a head coach.

 

[AmericanDream]

It was basically between him and Sharp given he was making 3 mil at the time he left and jumped to 5.2 the next season, and we did pretty well with Sharp over the next 5 years.

Would I like Byfuglien on this team? Sure. Would I want him for 7.5 million? Hell no. Even Winnipeg fans have voiced the same displeasures about the games he takes off for large stretches in his time there.

He's having a great playoff run though, and has been fun to watch. Good for him. Wouldn't be sad to see him get a second cup after so long.

I haven't heard a single bad thing on the Jets board since I have been posting over there. If anything, he honestly seems like the most well received player they have, more people bitch about Wheeler, Laine and Trouba than Buff. Not saying people haven't complained in the past, just havent heard anyone talk bad about Buff at all, the guy seems pretty loved there.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I'm seriously baffled whenever somebody legitimately suggests Keenan as a coach. You think the game has passed Q by? Hoooooo boy.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'm seriously baffled whenever somebody legitimately suggests Keenan as a coach. You think the game has passed Q by? Hoooooo boy.

Based on what exactly? Keenan wins wherever he goes. He could also offer a lot of value through his experience to a Colliton or a Hossa as his successor.

 

[BK]

Keenan hasn't coached in 3 or 4 seasons right? I am indifferent about him and he would not be my first choice.

I took a deeper dive and he hasn't won everywhere (multiple losing seasons in Florida and Vancouver) but he has won a lot in his coaching career (career .577 winning percentage). He is able to get teams to play really hard at the start then he wears out his welcome and "loses the room", this could be a positive but also could create a rift with management.

Like I said, Keenan would not be close to my choice but I can see why some people would want him and his techniques. He is an old school type coach in the sense that he is a no BS grind grind grind type.

Unless Scotty Bowman finds a time machine I doubt there is a consensus pick out there.

If I had to pick a coach for next season I would pick Colliton with Hossa and Ulf as assistants (keep Granato as well).

 

[DPHawk]

Bolland could have been moved to keep Buff for '11-'12. After that we had cap space from the Campbell trade so we could have re-signed him.

 

[BK]

Bolland could have been moved to keep Buff for '11-'12. After that we had cap space from the Campbell trade so we could have re-signed him.

Bolland's deal was harder to move (3.375? and was injured during that regular season). Buff was way more potential so teams only were interested in him.

 

[DPHawk]

Bolland's deal was harder to move (3.375? and was injured during that regular season). Buff was way more potential so teams only were interested in him.

Bolland was only a year removed from a 47 point season and was coming off a great playoff run during the Cup (16 pts in 22 GP), he was a young center with a stellar reputation in the defensive end. They easily could have moved him but I don't think there was any desire to do so when you consider our lack of depth at center. Buff wasn't needed on defense (Keith, Seabs, Campbell, Hammer, plus Leddy in the pipeline) and winger that averaged 34 points/82 and had questions about his effort/conditioning was not as big of a priority as a younger player being penciled in as a 2C.