The future of the Ottawa Senators

[Emerica]

Hey at least he ain’t even attempting to hide the fact that he’s pushing an agenda nowadays

 

[Knave]

As others have said - news to me there was a viable plan to buy the team out of bankruptcy that wasn't Melnyk. Puts to rest the idea he "saved the team" which was one of the big points people tried to make immediately after his death to try and cover for his more recent escapades like voicing support for office-place-sexual-harasser Bill O'Reilly, his threat to move the team, the abusive behavior on his part, etc... Kind of surprised that made it into Garrioch's article.

Then he states the obvious - the estate needs to be settled, the NHL was more concerned with making sure the operations of the Senators organization didn't seize up with Melnyk's death.

There's a bunch of fluff like "oh they're not selling and things are going great and there's been no internal talk of a sale". LOL. I mean okay, maybe there isn't "daily meeting on sale of team" in their outlook calendars but give me a break. The owner is dead. His daughters are likely staring down a massive tax on the estate given he bought it out of bankruptcy and most appraisers are going to value the Senators at hundreds of millions more than what they were bought at. I would also bet the organization is highly leveraged so not in the best of shape.

I guess that leaves me with one other small thing worth mentioning assuming Garrioch cuddling up with Melnyk got him legit info: while Melnyk talked about keeping the team in the family Garrioch mentions talk of "bringing in partners". Which suggests at the very least his daughters could sell a significant stake of the team to an outside buyer.

I'm just hoping we'll see some sort of action before the end of summer and progress on a downtown arena bid.

 

[ksens]

I'm just hoping we'll see some sort of action before the end of summer and progress on a downtown arena bid.

Amen to that.

 

[Sweatred]

Actually 2 fixes that will make a difference would be a 1)"deep pocketed" owner that is hands off , hires great people and willing to spend to the cap and 2) a winning team that makes the playoffs.

so… find an owner than wants to stay away, lose $20-40 million a year and if they make the playoffs (50% chance) …. fans may go?

As a side note, most “deep pocketed” owners in the league don’t dig into their own pockets any more or less than our ownership has. A few do, and the majority don’t.

 

[Stylizer1]

so… find an owner than wants to stay away, lose $20-40 million a year and if they make the playoffs (50% chance) …. fans may go?

As a side note, most “deep pocketed” owners in the league don’t dig into their own pockets any more or less than our ownership has. A few do, and the majority don’t.

You are basing this all on a guy who was terrible at running an NHL franchise. You make it seem there is no way to run it well.

 

[coladin]

Lots of street parking down Preston/Booth and the side streets in between. Also likely that they’ll have at least a small underground parking for those willing to pay valet. Not a ton, but everything counts when considering transportation and how fans will come and go.

I'm definitely getting valet. No way in hell I take LRT, especially in the dead of winter

 

[coladin]

I did walk over to Dealey Plazza and do some JFK assassination research, so there was that.

when we were heading out to Arlington we asked the hotel dude where to grab a bus or train or whatever. he told us there was none of that because "everyone here just drives". cab it we did. Nice stadium.

Agreed, Dallas downtown was awful.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm definitely getting valet. No way in hell I take LRT, especially in the dead of winter

The bus rides to the old corel center where pretty wild back in the day.

Edit: Wonder what valet parking down there would end up costing, probably starts to get close to the cost of a cab depending on how far you live.

 

[Sweatred]

You are basing this all on a guy who was terrible at running an NHL franchise. You make it seem there is no way to run it well.

No not really …. All three ownerships had attendance and revenue problems here. Bryden to Geener was probably the sweet spot for the market with a newish building and generally inexpensive tickets combined with the novelty of us challenging for the cup.

3 years or so ago Geener linked spending to revenue. It was the move that prevented the team from going bankrupt again.

The market has changed and isn’t fuelled by $25 tickets anymore. Who ever owns this team will need to sell a lot of tickets to the general public without the benefit of strong corporate support. Tack on $20 to those $25 nose bleeds tickets for a swanky new downtown building too.


Every team gets local TV money, every team gets a share of league wide television revenues. The difference between a cap team and everyone else is fan gate revenue … and mostly ticket revenue from $4-500 a game club bell type seats.

 

[coladin]

The bus rides to the old corel center where pretty wild back in the day.

Edit: Wonder what valet parking down there would end up costing, probably starts to get close to the cost of a cab depending on how far you live.

It is 50 now at CTC, and without it I would probably not go as often. Whetever it is or it takes, I'm paying it!

 

[Big Muddy]

so… find an owner than wants to stay away, lose $20-40 million a year and if they make the playoffs (50% chance) …. fans may go?

As a side note, most “deep pocketed” owners in the league don’t dig into their own pockets any more or less than our ownership has. A few do, and the majority don’t.

I have no idea what will happen as I am not a clairvoyant. But, I can sense that some may be worried that their "mantra/narratives/platform" is starting to fade away. Let's see what a new owner can do (assuming there is a new owner).

 

[DaveMatthew]

No not really …. All three ownerships had attendance and revenue problems here. Bryden to Geener was probably the sweet spot for the market with a newish building and generally inexpensive tickets combined with the novelty of us challenging for the cup.

3 years or so ago Geener linked spending to revenue. It was the move that prevented the team from going bankrupt again.

The market has changed and isn’t fuelled by $25 tickets anymore. Who ever owns this team will need to sell a lot of tickets to the general public without the benefit of strong corporate support. Tack on $20 to those $25 nose bleeds tickets for a swanky new downtown building too.


Every team gets local TV money, every team gets a share of league wide television revenues. The difference between a cap team and everyone else is fan gate revenue … and mostly ticket revenue from $4-500 a game club bell type seats.

With the amount of parties reportedly interested in the franchise (and keeping it here in Ottawa), and the rumors around the price that they're willing to pay... I think it's becoming clear that you don't have a strong grasp on the financial realities of this organization.

Things don't seem very dire, even though the Senators have been plagued by a cancerous management group for the past 5-6 years. Remove that tumor... and very smart people, very rich people are licking their chops looking at the potential of what can be done here.

 

[coladin]

I was fascinated to hear that Greenberg tried to dig Bryden out. That is news to me. Maybe someone who knows more about bankruptcy can explain this better. Perhaps @Mingus Dew ?

I am thinking that because Bryden was involved in saving the team from creditors, the asking price to settle would have been much, much higher than what Melnyk bought it for. Maybe what I find more disturbing is Greenberg is willing to be putting a billion (possibly), but let the team fall into receivership back in 2003. They always had the money. I am going to have to see what I can find out!

This Athletic story is not unlike the Quebec City story that rankled the organization, and there were rumours who were behind it. I think and I know that there are parties who are quite content to see the Athletic story released and this only makes the decision to stick around , the Melnyks, more unpalatable.

I spoke with some well connected gentleman and it leaves me no doubt that the team will be sold. But I also feel that OSEG will not be involved directly with the purchase, but may be part of the Lebreton plans. There are former players aligned with a billionaire who will most likely buy it. I also have heard that the Mews Group may be in on this, as I mentioned a few years back. Gee, anyone working for them who knows anything about running an NHL team?

 

[Sweatred]

With the amount of parties reportedly interested in the franchise (and keeping it here in Ottawa), and the rumors around the price that they're willing to pay... I think it's becoming clear that you don't have a strong grasp on the financial realities of this organization.

Things don't seem very dire, even though the Senators have been plagued by a cancerous management group for the past 5-6 years. Remove that tumor... and very smart people, very rich people are licking their chops looking at the potential of what can be done here.

we will see … there is clearly a lot of interest in the team .. what we don’t know is how much money will those owners be willing to lose a year.

The gap now is probably $20-40 million … a new building will boost revenues and costs in the short term but who knows if any of these new owners are comfortable losing any more money than Geener was losing. I assume we see an internal budget but who knows.

The richest owner in the league loses about $5 million more a year then what we have been losing.

 

[Knave]

we will see … there is clearly a lot of interest in the team .. what we don’t know is how much money will those owners be willing to lose a year.

The gap now is probably $20-40 million … a new building will boost revenues in the short term but who knows if any of these new owners are comfortable losing any more money than Geener was losing. I assume we see an internal budget but who knows.

The richest owner in the league loses about $5 million more a year then what we have been losing.

You need to look at it more holistically. What would owning a downtown arena do for an overall 'entertainment business' with the Senators as an anchor tenant in the arena? How about pushing that LRT expansion right to the airport and building up capacity?

Ottawa gets skipped over a lot for many events, concert tours, etc... but it's a growing city with potential and some will see that and bet on it.

Will they be right in their bet? I don't know but there are rich people who look at this city and do see potential.

The Senators seem likely to be "needed" for a new arena. While the Senators themselves might lose money, what is brought in with all the development, the other uses for the arena, etc...

 

[Micklebot]

It is 50 now at CTC, and without it I would probably not go as often. Whetever it is or it takes, I'm paying it!

There's likely to be a lot less parking, so I suspect it will go way up. Idk, at some point, you'd have to think getting an uber or something would be preferable, then you can have a few drinks before, after or with the game too.

I don't blame you for not wanting to take the LRT (or buses) to hockey games, that's a young mans game that I've left behind. I don't mind dealing with parking or walking a bit, particularly on the way there, hitting up a good downtown restaurant pre-game and being able to walk there is pretty appealing to me, particularly when the weather is on the nicer side.

 

[Sweatred]

You need to look at it more holistically. What would owning a downtown arena do for an overall 'entertainment business' with the Senators as an anchor tenant in the arena? How about pushing that LRT expansion right to the airport and building up capacity?

Ottawa gets skipped over a lot for many events, concert tours, etc... but it's a growing city with potential and some will see that and bet on it.

Will they be right in their bet? I don't know but there are rich people who look at this city and do see potential.

The Senators seem likely to be "needed" for a new arena. While the Senators themselves might lose money, what is brought in with all the development, the other uses for the arena, etc...

I think there are two very different things going on here regarding the potential new ownership.

1. Stability for the franchise - let’s face it, it can’t operate with <10 000 fans a game at league low prices.

2. A return to perennial close to cap spending. That means something between $150 mill. A Year in revenue or an owner losing $30+ a year.

I think new ownership is mostly about #1 … if any building opens in 3-5 years we are probably in the playoffs and spending … but that will be the peak, not the norm and easily justified in the short term with a new building etc.

 

[MCNSTY]

I'm definitely getting valet. No way in hell I take LRT, especially in the dead of winter

Downtown valet with limited spots will likely be quite expensive - you’re probably better off taking an Uber/Lyft/Cab.

 

[MCNSTY]

I was fascinated to hear that Greenberg tried to dig Bryden out. That is news to me. Maybe someone who knows more about bankruptcy can explain this better. Perhaps @Mingus Dew ?

I am thinking that because Bryden was involved in saving the team from creditors, the asking price to settle would have been much, much higher than what Melnyk bought it for. Maybe what I find more disturbing is Greenberg is willing to be putting a billion (possibly), but let the team fall into receivership back in 2003. They always had the money. I am going to have to see what I can find out!

This Athletic story is not unlike the Quebec City story that rankled the organization, and there were rumours who were behind it. I think and I know that there are parties who are quite content to see the Athletic story released and this only makes the decision to stick around , the Melnyks, more unpalatable.

I spoke with some well connected gentleman and it leaves me no doubt that the team will be sold. But I also feel that OSEG will not be involved directly with the purchase, but may be part of the Lebreton plans. There are former players aligned with a billionaire who will most likely buy it. I also have heard that the Mews Group may be in on this, as I mentioned a few years back. Gee, anyone working for them who knows anything about running an NHL team?

Don’t think OSEG will be directly involved, but the two main partner, Greenberg & Ruddy, will definitely be involved with a group. Technically the Senators would not be under the OSEG banner in that case, but I suspect many would just assume that they are at that point.

Haven’t heard much about the Mews Family, but wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

They will be, everyone knows it. Just stop.

Yes, they will be sold, in whole, or in part, whenever the current owner(s) decide to do so......... could be this year or in ten years.
No one knows if and when a sale will happen. You don't know either.

 

[branch]

I was fascinated to hear that Greenberg tried to dig Bryden out. That is news to me. Maybe someone who knows more about bankruptcy can explain this better. Perhaps @Mingus Dew ?

I am thinking that because Bryden was involved in saving the team from creditors, the asking price to settle would have been much, much higher than what Melnyk bought it for. Maybe what I find more disturbing is Greenberg is willing to be putting a billion (possibly), but let the team fall into receivership back in 2003. They always had the money. I am going to have to see what I can find out!

This Athletic story is not unlike the Quebec City story that rankled the organization, and there were rumours who were behind it. I think and I know that there are parties who are quite content to see the Athletic story released and this only makes the decision to stick around , the Melnyks, more unpalatable.

I spoke with some well connected gentleman and it leaves me no doubt that the team will be sold. But I also feel that OSEG will not be involved directly with the purchase, but may be part of the Lebreton plans. There are former players aligned with a billionaire who will most likely buy it. I also have heard that the Mews Group may be in on this, as I mentioned a few years back. Gee, anyone working for them who knows anything about running an NHL team?

Harry Mews was drafted by the Capitals in the 80's I think that's about as far as that goes. Crazy how running a fewcar dealerships can get you in the conversation for a owning pro hockey team. Gotta love the @coladin insider info, keep it coming!!

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Controlling interest in the team will be sold.

When, do you have a source?
Or just guessing?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Firing both Dorion and Garrioch on the same day is going to be almost better than new ownership for me personally.

Garrioch works for post media.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When, do you have a source?
Or just guessing?

Not sure, is this the same poster as last week, who said big news happening today.

 

[bert]

Yes, they will be sold, in whole, or in part, whenever the current owner(s) decide to do so......... could be this year or in ten years.
No one knows if and when a sale will happen. You don't know either.

It will be done before next season at the latest. As a fan of the team you should hope it happens before the offseason this is a pivotal period of time for this rebuild. Two cornerstones of the franchise are able to be extended. Maybe you dont want it to happen? The only reason I could see why is if you have some sort of personal agenda.

There are two realistic and strong buying groups at the table. The lenders dont want two 20 somethings carrying this type of debt load in something they have no experience in running. There were certainly stipulations in the 300 million dollar loan if Eugene were to pass.