The Flyers Draft 7th; Who Do You Want?

[Hockeypete49]

Players rarely light the USHL up, though. He's been a better USHLer than Jaden Schwarz in terms of scoring.

I mean, he's got a better offensive ceiling than Crouse at the very least. He's a solid all around player. He's versatile, has speed and good size. Honestly, he's probably the most complete pick you're going to find past 5 if you're looking for a forward.

Everything I hear about him makes me think of an Eric Staal type player (when Staal wasn't an enigma). Maybe Kyle Turris is a better comparable, actually. Either way, his skill set is extremely appealing to me.

Appealing to me also.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

I haven't read through every post, but do you think Arizona would trade their third for our 8th and our second first rounder? If possible, should be even do it? I'd like to get Hanifin.

I don't want Connor. He is a big Wing and often big wings fulfill their promise after the team that drafted them gives up on them 4 years into their development. I don't trust drafting power forwards. I think there is too much risk.

Are you confusing Crouse and Connor? Because Connor is a skilled all around center. His skating is one of his best assets.

 

[Patrick Division]

Are you confusing Crouse and Connor? Because Connor is a skilled all around center. His skating is one of his best assets.

Connor is listed as a center in most places but he actually plays LW. A 6'1" scoring forward who can play C or LW...Yes please!!!

 

[Pantokrator]

No chance. I don't think both 1sts gets a bite.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what level Hanifin is at. Now I have an idea!

 

[Pantokrator]

Are you confusing Crouse and Connor? Because Connor is a skilled all around center. His skating is one of his best assets.

I am! Thank you. I am confusing the two!

 

[Pantokrator]

I agree with the poster who said we need a #1 defenseman as our top priority.

I think we should take a defenseman #1 and hope that of our group of prospects, we end up with a top level defenseman or 2.

I am convinced that other than the 2009 Penguins, most of the last 10 years of Cup winners have a top defense. Even the Canes in 2006 had basically 6 "number 3 or 4" defensemen which worked.

I also think that defensemen take longer to develop, which means they take longer to get a big contract and gives more time to get the rest of the pieces.

We are in a bad position with our forwards, because our top forwards are good now, and if our D ever comes together, it will be 4 or 5 years at which point the forwards will no longer be top forwards.

If we get a top forward, we will still suffer with the problem on defense which will not help us long term. So I Say go with defense until we have that position solidified and then go from there. We could be like the next Nashville Predators if we took that approach.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

I honestly doubt we draft a Euro at 7, we just hardly ever take the min 1st round. I mean, we had Mirco Mueller (was playing in WHL) over Ristolainen for christ sake. I don't think our organization likes to take chance on Europeans, (whether that be Russian, Finnish etc) in the 1st, especially after Sbisa (yes I know he was in WHL also) debacle.

I think our scouting staff is locked onto Werenski, Crouse or Barzal here (if obvious guys like Marner/Hanifin don't slip. Not that high on Strome, his skating looks terribly average).

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I'd rather have Werenski or Barzal over Crouse.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I honestly doubt we draft a Euro at 7, we just hardly ever take the min 1st round. I mean, we had Mirco Mueller (was playing in WHL) over Ristolainen for christ sake. I don't think our organization likes to take chance on Europeans, (whether that be Russian, Finnish etc) in the 1st, especially after Sbisa (yes I know he was in WHL also) debacle.

I think our scouting staff is locked onto Werenski, Crouse or Barzal here (if obvious guys like Marner/Hanifin don't slip. Not that high on Strome, his skating looks terribly average).

How was the Sbisa pick a debacle?

 

[SchennSational1022*]

How was the Sbisa pick a debacle?

The pick itself wasn't I guess, but their handling was. They played him on the 4th line 5 months after being drafted and healthy scratched him as an 18 year old . I'm sure they look at it as "a european thing" too, very old school staff we have.

 

[Larry44]

The pick itself wasn't I guess, but their handling was. They played him on the 4th line 5 months after being drafted and healthy scratched him as an 18 year old . I'm sure they look at it as "a european thing" too, very old school staff we have.

Wasn't Sbisa playing here in the WHL in his draft year? I guess that rules out Provorov, Zacha, and Meier on that logic.

The Flyers take BPA and will do so again, but they also like taking guys who are late risers and who project very highly. There are, however, going to be several options at 7 or 8. One thing we know from the video of the Morin draft, they will have guys they really like and take them over other consensus picks. We'll find out on draft day but it's possible, as others have said that the U18, CHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup (to a lesser degree) will help them finalize their pick.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

Wasn't Sbisa playing here in the WHL in his draft year? I guess that rules out Provorov, Zacha, and Meier on that logic.

The Flyers take BPA and will do so again, but they also like taking guys who are late risers and who project very highly. There are, however, going to be several options at 7 or 8. One thing we know from the video of the Morin draft, they will have guys they really like and take them over other consensus picks. We'll find out on draft day but it's possible, as others have said that the U18, CHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup (to a lesser degree) will help them finalize their pick.

You didn't understand what I was saying.

-Provorov has been in USA/Canada since he was 14, doubt they look at him as a "Euro".
-Meier also playing in QMJHL
-Zacha playing in OHL

My point was they don't like taking Euros in round 1, especially ones that haven't already came over to play major junior.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The pick itself wasn't I guess, but their handling was. They played him on the 4th line 5 months after being drafted and healthy scratched him as an 18 year old . I'm sure they look at it as "a european thing" too, very old school staff we have.

That's not Sbisa's fault. That was the team's fault. Had nothing to do with him being a European player. He played/plays nothing like your typical European player. He was drafted out of the CHL. He was only on under the team's control for one year and went on to play 300 more games in the NHL.

It's no secret this organization prefers North American players, but I don't really see Sbisa factoring into any decisions regarding European players.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

That's not Sbisa's fault. That was the team's fault. Had nothing to do with him being a European player. He played/plays nothing like your typical European player. He was drafted out of the CHL. His was only on under the team's control for one year and went on to play 300 more games in the NHL.

It's no secret this organization prefers North American players, but I don't really see Sbisa factoring into any decisions regarding European players.

I'm well aware he was drafted out of the CHL, I pointed that out. If you don't think Sbisa is in the back of our FO's mind while determining to draft a Euro this summer you're a little short sided. I know we'd like to believe it wouldn't have an effect (it shouldn't), but teams think this way, especially ones with the old school view like the Flyers.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm well aware he was drafted out of the CHL, I pointed that out. If you don't think Sbisa is in the back of our FO's mind while determining to draft a Euro this summer you're a little short sided. I know we'd like to believe it wouldn't have an effect (it shouldn't), but teams think this way, especially ones with the old school view like the Flyers.

Yes I'm sure the player that made their team at 18, was the main piece that brought in Pronger, and went on to play over 300 games (and counting) in the NHL is going to be fresh on their minds come draft day.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

Yes I'm sure the player that made their team at 18, was the main piece that brought in Pronger, and went on to play over 300 games (and counting) in the NHL is going to be fresh on their minds come draft day.

Agree to disagree. I think we can all agree that Sbisa is not a great NHL player, and I'm sure the Flyers wouldn't take him in a re-draft.

 

[Random Forest]

Do people really make decisions like that?

"Oh ****, remember that one European guy we picked who didn't turn out? Yeah, let's ignore this guy that the room really likes because of him."

Because, ya know, there aren't example of successful Euro picks outside of our one semi-failure in the second half of the first round.


My opinion of scouts is not very high in general, but even I can't imagine that is how they make major decisions. I certainly hope it's not how you do!


EDIT: It's certainly plausible they have a bias for North American players. It's probably likely. But it's for very different and much more substantial reasons that Luca Sbisa.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

Do people really make decisions like that?

"Oh ****, remember that one European guy we picked who didn't turn out? Yeah, let's ignore this guy that the room really likes because of him."

Because, ya know, there aren't example of successful Euro picks outside of our one semi-failure in the second half of the first round.


My opinion of scouts is not very high in general, but even I can't imagine that is how they make major decisions. I certainly hope it's not how you do!


EDIT: It's certainly plausible they have a bias for North American players. It's probably likely. But it's for very different and much more substantial reasons that Luca Sbisa.

They favor NA players over Euros, partly due to past experiences. I rest my case there.

 

[Striiker]

The past experiences of being successful with players like Giroux or Richards, not the past experiences of "failures" like Sbisa.

I don't believe that they actively avoid Euros, they're just more comfortable and confident in their choice of NA players.

 

[Random Forest]

They favor NA players over Euros, partly due to past experiences. I rest my case there.

They favor NA players because they have greater control over their development. Because they have more frequent viewings (ie, you tend to favor the things and people you see more of). Because of the North American game. Because the NCAA and CHL are developmental leagues that are primarily concerned with...player development. Because they can stay in contact with their picks during the season with greater regularity. And on and on.

Not because they made one Euro pick in 10+ years who turned into a solid but unspectacular hockey player.

 

[Stizzle]

The top rated Euro in this draft has Antero Niittymaki as his GM/President/whatever in Finland. Niittymaki happens to also be on the Flyers payroll as a scout. If they really like him, they will take him. The Flyers will have more info on Rantanen than any other team in the draft.

 

[PALE PWNR]

How even and spread out this poll is says a lot of the quality of players that will be at our spot. Wonder if we can move up from the Tampa pick

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

had to think about it for a little while but I am thinking Rantanen. big kid, can shoot the puck and Lord knows the Flyers can use some size and skill on the wings.
if he is gone my next guy is Provorov. Even if the Flyers take him over Rantanen I am not going to be upset over it. Would not be upset if Hextall wanted to add to the depth on the blueline prospects
I really, really hope they stay away from Crouse. Just don't have a good feeling about this kid at all.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

The top rated Euro in this draft has Antero Niittymaki as his GM/President/whatever in Finland. Niittymaki happens to also be on the Flyers payroll as a scout. If they really like him, they will take him. The Flyers will have more info on Rantanen than any other team in the draft.

If I remember correctly, Niittymaki is a goalie scout, but they should still have a lot of info on Rantanen.

had to think about it for a little while but I am thinking Rantanen. big kid, can shoot the puck and Lord knows the Flyers can use some size and skill on the wings.
if he is gone my next guy is Provorov. Even if the Flyers take him over Rantanen I am not going to be upset over it. Would not be upset if Hextall wanted to add to the depth on the blueline prospects
I really, really hope they stay away from Crouse. Just don't have a good feeling about this kid at all.

People compare Rantanen to Voracek, would sure be nice to have two of him. I also don't have a good feeling about Crouse. I think he will be a 3rd line player and that's about all.

 

[Fragmuffin]

It seems to me as the only thing that sets Crouse apart from anyone other then McEichel and that keeps him high on everyone's lists is the 'ready now' factor I keep reading about (since I have only seen him play at juniors). Now if that is the truth and if the front office said: 'ok now, in two years at the latest we are going to be contenders. The D prospects are ready and G is in his prime, no more time to wait around missing playoffs and stuff', i'd be more than happy to pick up Crouse.
But since this is not the case, I really don't see why we couldn't take a player with more upside who would not be joining the team for some time, and let him develop his game. So that's why I voted Rantanen. Lets have two Voraceks on the same team.