Speculation: The first in a Fleury of posts about how the Pens aren't in a Murray to move a goalie

[Ugene Magic]

so we should hope that a good team (not on Fleury's list) with a NMC goalie has that goalie get hurt this year. They can then trade for Fleury as a rental and expose him to the draft. Its a perfect plan.

Well, that's one way. He did say we'll see how it goes.

 

[Finesse]

Trade him the moment that anything decent comes along.

 

[Waffle Fries]

First and foremost my biggest concern is the effect the split has in the locker room. We will worry about the expansion draft when we get there. Hopefully there is no animosity between the two goalies.

Honestly, this is the thing that's at the bottom of my list of concerns. The potential of having to buy out Fleury or lose Murray is the biggest for me, although we have a year before it gets to this.

I trust the guys in that locker to be mature adults. All of the goalies on the team seemed to be very well-liked by everyone. Murray has spoken glowingly of how great Fleury has been to him in terms of giving him advice, reassuring him after he has bad games etc. He even said that Fleury was one of his biggest mentors.

I think JR made a mistake. Maybe we end up moving Fleury but I suspect the return will be worse and drama could ensue on the team in the mean time.

Crosby is like Fleurys best friend. I know Sid wants to win more than anyone, but does anyone really believe him and other leaders won't be pushing for Fleury behind the scenes, at least a little?

If this was the case, Fleury would have been starting in the playoffs the moment he was healthy.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

It amazes me that Tampa and St Louis aren't scared to move on from their #1 goalies. But here we are too scared too let go of flopping Fleury and let Murray take the reigns. So much for thinking this organization turned a corner.

I'll pass on the eye-rolling, but Tampa risks losing Bishop next off-season for nothing without the Expansion Draft being a thing, he's an impending UFA that is going to likely to be the 2nd most expensive goalie in the league moving forward, and St. Louis has never been convinced that Elliott was a bona fide #1, but more of a 1A. Elliott never played more than 46 games in a season for the Blues and was under constant threat of being the 1B instead.

 

[IcedCapp]

the only person in the room I'm concerned about from the get-go is Letang, who spent the entire night of the 12th talking about how great Fleury was.

His mindset in that moment - RIGHT AFTER WINNING THE CUP! - was to prop up Fleury. What's going to happen next year if Murray is the starter and doesn't IMMEDIATELY TURN INTO CAM WARD1!!!11!1!!!

?

 

[Koempel]

It amazes me that Tampa and St Louis aren't scared to move on from their #1 goalies. But here we are too scared too let go of flopping Fleury and let Murray take the reigns. So much for thinking this organization turned a corner.

The only reason we're talking about moving Fleury is the expansion draft. Murray had a good play-offs, but in a non-expansion NHL I would definitely favour him sharing duties with MAF next year to see where he is at after teams get to know him better. It seems JR is still planning to do this and feels comfortable that he can still get rid of Fleury. Lets hope he is right and not over confident after making several killer trades

 

[T1K]

Not necessarily.

JR drafted a goalie. He's got Jarry and McGuire. Only of them you hope is ready when Fleury's contract expires.

For this year, you've got Murray as a cheap backup.

The problem with Murray, really, is that he was too good and accomplished too soon. And, you can't let that tantalize you into taking your eye off the Fleury ball.

The goalie we drafted is the "most NHL ready" goalie available in this draft, but that's still like 2-3 years away most likely. MAF's deal has 3 more years left, right? I could see them grooming the goalie we just drafted as him replacement for sure.

I just wanted us to make a decision on a goalie at the draft. If that Calgary rumor was true about Murray, trade him for 6th overall. There's a legit chance his value won't ever be higher than that. If they wanted to go with Murray, trade MAF to Calgary for a 2nd and next year's 3rd. If they traded MAF they would have opened up 6 mil in cap, two birds with one stone.

The fact that they haven't traded either yet makes me wonder what their plan is for the expansion draft. Sure we can trade Murray if it comes down to it, but the return might only be slightly more than what the compensation for losing a player to expansion would be.

 

[Shady Machine]

Honestly, this is the thing that's at the bottom of my list of concerns. The potential of having to buy out Fleury or lose Murray is the biggest for me, although we have a year before it gets to this.

I trust the guys in that locker to be mature adults. All of the goalies on the team seemed to be very well-liked by everyone. Murray has spoken glowingly of how great Fleury has been to him in terms of giving him advice, reassuring him after he has bad games etc. He even said that Fleury was one of his biggest mentors.



If this was the case, Fleury would have been starting in the playoffs the moment he was healthy.

It's one thing when you are rolling in the playoffs. Quite another over a full season.

These guys are professionals but they still have emotions, preferences, etc. Fleury has been coddled by this team for so long that I just can't imagine what might happen over a full season if Murray is the starter

 

[Shrimper]

Well, was nice having Murray. Enjoy Vegas

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why take a 7th in a year when we could have had 2 2nds today?

This is the exact thing I don't get about the people defending the non-move.

"We can always dump him for a 6th or 7th round pick". Okay, but why did we pass up two 2nds in order to then get much, much crappier value later?

JR not moving Fleury yesterday was a mistake. Period. Even if he somehow removes Fleury from the roster before next year's expansion draft (dumps him for a 7th, buys him out, etc.), the best time to move him was when he could get something of value for him. yesterday.

 

[KIRK]

I like to have a strong goalie tandem. If, sorry, when Murray will get injured (he is a Penguin, remember?) I don't want a Zatkoff, I want a Fleury to rely on.
Then the expansion draft will be taken care next year, because there will be always be a market for a top-10 goalie like Fleury. Or Murray will suck, and we keep MAF.

Why will Fleury accept a trade in 12 months when he can just force you to buy him out, pick where he wants to play, and between his new deal and the 7.6M buyout check make more money.

Really simple . . . if they go into the season with two goalies, there are TWO options:

1. IF Murray leads the Pens to another cup victory OR Fleury implodes during the season/is the reason they lose in the playoffs, then the Pens will hold their noses and buyout Fleury if nothing else can be done.

2. IF that doesn't happen, then Murray will be traded.

JR wants to keep the family together. All of it. The only way to do that is with a cheap backup. What better option than one with cup pedigree?

As I said, it's like a $4.99 Vegas buffet . . . you get to have it all and just deal with the mess later.

 

[Fordy]

Trade him the moment that anything decent comes along.

something decent already came along.....

 

[Malkinstheman]

It's one thing when you are rolling in the playoffs. Quite another over a full season.

Yeah this what i was about to say. If your winning games everyone will bite their tongue in the playoffs. Over an 82 game season its quite alot to expect both goalies to be fine constantly fighting for the starting role.

 

[KIRK]

Does everybody really believe that MAF will be unmovable before the expansion draft? So you not think if worst came to worst, we couldn't even send him off for a 7th rounder?

Like Walter Sobchak said in The Big Lebowski- "Relax, nothing is ****ed here, Dude!"

Why would MAF allow himself to be moved before the expansion draft?

Come July 1, he submits his new no trade list. It will effectively bar the Pens from trading him anywhere.

In 12 months, if the Pens want Murray, Fleury can waive OR force the Pens to cut him a 7.6M and go wherever he wants for whatever he wants. Which would he choose?

Thank goodness Fleury is a good guy who will reciprocate the loyalty the Pens will show him by choosing Murray in a year . . .

 

[Waffle Fries]

It's one thing when you are rolling in the playoffs. Quite another over a full season.

I don't see Crosby, or anyone else, campaigning to Sullivan or Rutherford for a specific player to be the starter. The only thing that might make that slightly relevant is if Fleury is playing at an ungodly level and Murray is severely struggling. And if that's the case, Sullivan would likely make the decision on his own.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hell, if they wanted to keep Fleury, they should have traded Murray for the 6th overall and added Tkachuk to our prospect pool.

No decision is actually worse than making a tough decision (moving Murray), because at least there's no potential for controversy. Plus, you'd get a valuable asset (Tkachuk) in the process.

 

[KIRK]

the only person in the room I'm concerned about from the get-go is Letang, who spent the entire night of the 12th talking about how great Fleury was.

His mindset in that moment - RIGHT AFTER WINNING THE CUP! - was to prop up Fleury. What's going to happen next year if Murray is the starter and doesn't IMMEDIATELY TURN INTO CAM WARD1!!!11!1!!!

?

Then JR will breathe a sigh of relief, because his hand won't be forced on Murray. Sure, he'll have to trade him for less than he could've gotten yesterday, but it will be better than losing him to LV for nothing.

And you and I both know the Pens media lap dogs will be there to spin it just like that.

 

[KIRK]

Hell, if they wanted to keep Fleury, they should have traded Murray for the 6th overall and added Tkachuk to our prospect pool.

No decision is actually worse than making a tough decision (moving Murray), because at least there's no potential for controversy. Plus, you'd get a valuable asset (Tkachuk) in the process.

They couldn't afford it. Only way you can keep this team with Kunitz is if you have a 600K backup.

 

[Fordy]

i'm surprised at the amount of people that wanted to get rid of beau because of how distracting his injuries were, that are totally cool with signing up for 82 games of a goalie controversy, on this team of all teams with fleury of all goalies

 

[IcedCapp]

This decision KIND OF, but not directly, reminds me of the Colts' decision with Manning and Luck in 2012.

Obviously Manning was infinitely better than Fleury, and Luck probably better than Murray (relatively), but in that scenario, the WORST idea was keeping both. It just made 0 sense. You either move on from the vet and go with the young guy, or you trade the young guy for 1208002394 picks and build around the vet.

Now obviously the Penguins aren't going to build around either goalie, but having both hampers your ability to build

 

[KIRK]

Please just sticky this post. When someone says everything is fine we need to be patient, show them this post.

Actually, you missed the worse part . . .

EDIT: **** me, IC said it's 12 teams can accept. This is easy: Washington, NY Rangers, Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Montreal, Boston, Tampa, New Jersey, Nashville, Toronto, Florida.

 

[YeeYee]

I heard Sid demanded MAF not be traded, and Kunitz sign a extension on the 1st to stay on his wing.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Well, was nice having Murray. Enjoy Vegas

I don't understand this train of thought. Worst case scenario is to buy out Fleury.

 

[KIRK]

This decision KIND OF, but not directly, reminds me of the Colts' decision with Manning and Luck in 2012.

Obviously Manning was infinitely better than Fleury, and Luck probably better than Murray (relatively), but in that scenario, the WORST idea was keeping both. It just made 0 sense. You either move on from the vet and go with the young guy, or you trade the young guy for 1208002394 picks and build around the vet.

Now obviously the Penguins aren't going to build around either goalie, but having both hampers your ability to build

I just don't see how that room doesn't become a mess next year. A cup run is one thing. Guys could rationalize it . . . Fleury was cold, coming off a concussion. But, next year, during the regular season, when Murray hits a rough patch?

I could see the argument either way. Trade Murray, get a boat load of futures, move a Kunitz so the numbers work OR move Fleury, get a lower priced backup, put the money to doing more for Sid and Geno so you can justify keeping HBK together without Sid and Geno wondering WTF.

The only 100% wrong choice here was to avoid having to make any hard choices. And that's exactly what JR has done here.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

i'm surprised at the amount of people that wanted to get rid of beau because of how distracting his injuries were, that are totally cool with signing up for 82 games of a goalie controversy, on this team of all teams with fleury of all goalies

For whatever reason, Fleury has inspired this almost cult-like devotion from a percentage of the fanbase (and apparently all of management). It's actually mindboggling to me.

I wonder if some Vancouver fans still defend Dan Cloutier with every ounce of their being.