Player Discussion The Eberle Factor

[Supermassive]

So...goal scoring is a misleading stat, but completely ignoring power play scoring by an offensive winger is an honest picture of offensive contribution?

Get that **** outta here. Ridiculous.

 

[Aceboogie]

As for Ebs 6m deal: is he worth 6m? no, he is worth around 4.75-5mil currently for what he brings. But his deal is not, and never has, prevented us from making deals. Even this year we had ample cap space before signing Russell.

Will he be worth 6M in future? Ill actually say maybe due to cap going up and comparable UFA signing similar deals. 25 goals will get you 6 mil (its already getting 5.5) pretty soon. There is a risk however that his deal prevents future moves, so we can deal with it then

But sorry to think exposing and losing Eberle in expansion draft is one of dumbest ideas I have ever heard on HFOil, or just HF alone. Eberle is an asset that can be used to acquire a good prospect, a top 4 D or other. To light that on fire and throw it away due to 13 games is crazy. We could instead expose and lose a 4M Pouliot with significant lower value in the market.

 

[Draiskull]

But sorry to think exposing and losing Eberle in expansion draft is one of dumbest ideas I have ever heard on HFOil, or just HF alone. Eberle is an asset that can be used to acquire a good prospect, a top 4 D or other. To light that on fire and throw it away due to 13 games is crazy. We could instead expose and lose a 4M Pouliot with significant lower value in the market.

I agree.. There really wont be anyone worth going after in the free agency this offseason assuming Burns gets locked up by SJ. There is no point freeing up 6M by losing Ebs to expansion..
Having said that... exposing Eberle would mean we get to keep Maroon and Davidson.. might be an optoin depending on how the rest of season goes.

 

[Aceboogie]

I agree.. There really wont be anyone worth going after in the free agency this offseason assuming Burns gets locked up by SJ. There is no point freeing up 6M by losing Ebs to expansion..
Having said that... exposing Eberle would mean we get to keep Maroon and Davidson.. might be an optoin depending on how the rest of season goes.

Well see how this season goes. If Eberle doesnt pick it up then ok I can see exposing him. But I think the glimemr will start to come off Maroon a bit (he wont shoot 20% forever and only has 1 more goal than Eberle). But Maroon could also succeed, who knows?

I think Eberle will go on his scheduled hot streak and end up with 25 goals. So itd be smarter to lose Maroon or Pouliot or are replaceable depth wingers and keep Eberle to trade him for top 4 D. Then get best of Pitlick/Slepyshev/Khaira etc to replace Maroon

 

[Draiskull]

Well see how this season goes. If Eberle doesnt pick it up then ok I can see exposing him. But I think the glimemr will start to come off Maroon a bit (he wont shoot 20% forever and only has 1 more goal than Eberle). But Maroon could also succeed, who knows?

I think Eberle will go on his scheduled hot streak and end up with 25 goals. So itd be smarter to lose Maroon or Pouliot or are replaceable depth wingers and keep Eberle to trade him for top 4 D. Then get best of Pitlick/Slepyshev/Khaira etc to replace Maroon

I dont think goals scored is the main factor when it comes to Chia and McLellan analyzing someone like Maroon. The type of team Chia is trying to build and chemistry with McDavid\RNH will be bigger factors.

IMO Eberle's future depends a lot on how Caggiula and Puljujarvi develop this year.

 

[Aceboogie]

I dont think goals scored is the main factor when it comes to Chia and McLellan analyzing someone like Maroon. The type of team Chia is trying to build and chemistry with McDavid\RNH will be bigger factors.

IMO Eberle's future depends a lot on how Caggiula and Puljujarvi develop this year.

Pitlick/Slepyshev/Khaira (one of the them) will be able to provide the grit and aspects fo game Maroon/Pouliot provides. Its easier to be a good depth player than it is to score 25 goals. But you are right Cagguila could eat Eberles lunch

Either way I think both Eberle and Maroon will be kept with Pouliot lost. Eberle is a RW who provides goals (also has trade value). Maroon is cheap and a Chia player. Pouliot is another LW who makes a lot more than Maroon while not providing much more things, also doesnt have value Eberle has

 

[TameYew]

I dont think goals scored is the main factor when it comes to Chia and McLellan analyzing someone like Maroon. The type of team Chia is trying to build and chemistry with McDavid\RNH will be bigger factors.

IMO Eberle's future depends a lot on how Caggiula and Puljujarvi develop this year.

Agreed. Eberle's long-term future with the Oilers will take a year or longer to determine and is based on the progression of depth behind him.

Let's not write-off an asset based on a 13 game stretch in which he's noticeably focusing on his defensive game over his offense. If you watch him play instead of just looking at his boxcars, you will see that he is back-checking, hitting and trying to be defensive. I'm sure that is exactly what is being preached by the coaching staff.

The defensive focus is what helps the team win games. Boxcars are only for contract discussion.

 

[Senor Catface]

Simple goal scoring is a totally misleading stat as it does not recognize that large differences that exist between players in total ice time and particularly PP time. The proper stat that gives you an honest picture of offensive contribution taking into account these differences in usage is even strength points per 60 minutes of ice time. Here are Eberle's numbers:

2016-17 - 2.04 (#100 forward but worse now as data is 4 games old)
2015-16 - 1.85 (#83 in NHL, bottom-end top line forward)
2014-15 - 1.98 (#64 in NHL, mid-range top line forward)
2013-14 - 1.89 (#94 in NHL, bottom-end top line forward)
2012-13 - 2.28 (#30 in NHL, very good, border line high end top line forward)
2011-12 - 3.04 (2nd in NHL, outstanding)

So Eberle has been scoring like a bottom-end top line forward 2 out of the last 3 years and is second line material this season. He has been given the best linemates (McDavid the past year) and first team PP time his entire time in EDM - the best possible situation for scoring. That he only ranks mid-teens in RW goal scoring with those advantages is a negative NOT a positive. He brings nothing other than scoring to the table and he hasn't been that good at it since 2012-13 which was the last time he put up outstanding results. Ancient history in pro sports.

So Eberle has been putting up 2nd line results but he needs top line time and linemates to do it. His output is largely driven by cherry PP minutes and by McDavid over the past 50 games or so. Overall his performance is extremely mediocre given the opportunities and any decent 2nd line RW could match them at half the price and likely provide some defense on top of it. There was a reason Taylor Hall was traded. Eberle would not return any kind of decent top 4 dman. His contract may not be untradable but you going to have to take back something that stinks to make a deal. If his play doesn't improve a lot by the trade deadline I'd try convince someone that he's the next Kessel (not even close but there are dumb execs in the NHL) and would seriously consider leaving him exposed in the expansion draft. We could do a lot more with that $6 million next summer than we've been getting over the past 3 seasons. He's a passenger at this point and a damn expensive one. Ditch Eberle's contract and sign TJ Oshie or similar as a UFA - something to consider

Simple goal scoring is a totally misleading stat as it does not recognize that large differences that exist between players in total ice time and particularly PP time. The proper stat that gives you an honest picture of offensive contribution taking into account these differences in usage is even strength points per 60 minutes of ice time. Here are Eberle's numbers:

Stats in isolation usually exclude some outside factor. I can't think of any stats that include everything. So, yes, goal scoring isn't the do-all or say-all, but it's more important than you're letting on. Are we to say that ES/60 includes all important factual elements? It doesn't speak on the competition being faced. It doesn't speak to mismanaged coaching systems that can sewer a team's ES ability. So, unless we are to assume all points are equal, I would retort that EV/60 as a metric is also misleading in its own right.

These are players who had worse points per 60 on even strength last year, that don't scream defensive saints.

Giroux
Couture
Stamkos
Sedin
Nyquist
Sharp

Since we would be smart to replace Eberle with a RW, it makes more sense to be comparing what Eberle does compared to his peers, other RWs, opposed to including mash of player that don't have anything to do with the position. What I mean is, if you're luring in a player to sign to replace Eberle, you won't sign a center who would most likely want to keep playing his natural position.

Look at how much Hall resisted switching positions. The Oilers have been notorious the last few years in placing players off-position, so if if we are to replace Eberle, we need a RW to take his place. So, I think it's a stronger case to compare Eberle's place amongst RWs.

If we do that, he'a always in the top 20, even though it's not his strength (who could ever say that.)

I take issue with taking out PP points to make a player look worse. PP's win and lose games. I don't see why removing a players success on the powerplay is a productive way to talk about a player.

Goals are not a completely misleading stat. Scoring goals in the NHL is one of the most difficult things to do. So to say he only brings scoring might be accurate, but it underscores and underplays the base difficulty that comes with scoring in the NHL.

We have a player that scores goals on the rate of someone who is top 10 in his position. You said he scores "mid-teens" which how I not how I would frame the stat.

He is 7th in goals scored since 12-13 for a RW. Last year he paced for 7th. He's always 2 goals away from the top 10 if he's not in it. He's in the conversation. That is a positive.

We as Oiler fans have a habit (and likely fans in general) of looking at the greener grass elsewhere. I'm completely in favour of moving any player if it has a high chance of improving the team. Anyone whose name doesn't start with McD. But, we have a player who is a proven contributor, and who scores at a rate that is top 10 in his position.

 

[duul]

Stats in isolation usually exclude some outside factor. I can't think of any stats that include everything. So, yes, goal scoring isn't the do-all or say-all, but it's more important than you're letting on. Are we to say that ES/60 includes all important factual elements? It doesn't speak on the competition being faced. It doesn't speak to mismanaged coaching systems that can sewer a team's ES ability. So, unless we are to assume all points are equal, I would retort that EV/60 as a metric is also misleading in its own right.

These are players who had worse points per 60 on even strength last year, that don't scream defensive saints.

Giroux
Couture
Stamkos
Sedin
Nyquist
Sharp

Since we would be smart to replace Eberle with a RW, it makes more sense to be comparing what Eberle does compared to his peers, other RWs, opposed to including mash of player that don't have anything to do with the position. What I mean is, if you're luring in a player to sign to replace Eberle, you won't sign a center who would most likely want to keep playing his natural position.

Look at how much Hall resisted switching positions. The Oilers have been notorious the last few years in placing players off-position, so if if we are to replace Eberle, we need a RW to take his place. So, I think it's a stronger case to compare Eberle's place amongst RWs.

If we do that, he'a always in the top 20, even though it's not his strength (who could ever say that.)

I take issue with taking out PP points to make a player look worse. PP's win and lose games. I don't see why removing a players success on the powerplay is a productive way to talk about a player.

Goals are not a completely misleading stat. Scoring goals in the NHL is one of the most difficult things to do. So to say he only brings scoring might be accurate, but it underscores and underplays the base difficulty that comes with scoring in the NHL.

We have a player that scores goals on the rate of someone who is top 10 in his position. You said he scores "mid-teens" which how I not how I would frame the stat.

He is 7th in goals scored since 12-13 for a RW. Last year he paced for 7th. He's always 2 goals away from the top 10 if he's not in it. He's in the conversation. That is a positive.

We as Oiler fans have a habit (and likely fans in general) of looking at the greener grass elsewhere. I'm completely in favour of moving any player if it has a high chance of improving the team. Anyone whose name doesn't start with McD. But, we have a player who is a proven contributor, and who scores at a rate that is top 10 in his position.

I appreciate your view into Eberle.

Didn't we have the same conversation about Hall? How he was one of the best contributors in the league at scoring points? It might be true that he is, but he lacks in other areas and we see teams who find great success in the NHL don't really have these types of players on their teams.

Pittsburgh had Kessel, but he was playing 3rd line sheltered minutes. Chicago has Kane but he is one of the most dynamic offensive players in the NHL. Can't compare him with Eberle. L.A. doesn't have a player like this on their team. Maybe Gaborik who was being paid peanuts?

The point is that as backwards as it sounds, there is a lot more to scoring goals in the NHL. Like I mentioned earlier, he's a -8 on a team with a positive goal differential. That's a damning statistic.

You can claim he does such a good job at putting up points! He's top 10/20 in the league at his position! But how many is he giving up the other way? You look at Washington and this is Ovechkin's stat line from 2014-14:

78 51 28 79 48 -35

He scored 51 goals but was a -35 on the year. Obviously he is one of the best goal scorers of all time, and Washington has shored up its defensive woes while Ovi has improved defensively as a player, but can you really say Ovechkin was a positive impact player for Washington that year? His team is losing with him on the ice, not winning.

Give him Oshie, Backes, Eriksson, Kunitz...hell give me prime Pascal Dupuis to line up with McDavid over Eberle. The end goal is to win a Stanley Cup. Washington has been the kings of the regular season because they had a bunch of Eberle type players on offence, but once the playoffs rolled around teams were willing to sacrifice their bodies and start banging those guys around at every opportunity. Wore them down quite easily.

Eberle doesn't have the drive to be a worthwhile option on RW for a Stanley Cup contending team, unless he's being giftwrapped 3rd line minutes against other teams bottom pairing. Even then, there are way better and cheaper options.

If we can package him for a PMD at the deadline, you have to do that.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I think the New NHL is modelling themselves after Pittsburgh somewhat.

3 lines, all of which can score, play some Defense, a bit of speed, a bit of skill, and a bit of grit.

I don't think anyone is going to load up 3 finesse players on a line, or 3 pure grinders on a line anymore.

Which is why I think Eberle should move back onto the Meg(Ryan)Ted(Nugent)Anthony(Hopkins) line.


McDavid needs size and speed. He needs big bodies to create him some room, and someone fast to keep up. Eberle and him have a bit of redundancy in that he can't create room for McDavid, and Lucic isn't fast enough to create room. Puju and Maroon I think would theoretically be the combo I'd like to see.

I think Eberle should slide back onto the RNH line with Pouliot. They offer a nice range of skills and balance.

Lucic-Drai-Pitlick seem great for now.


The Drake and Hendrix are sure gonna mess the dynamic.

 

[Asiaoil]

As for Ebs 6m deal: is he worth 6m? no, he is worth around 4.75-5mil currently for what he brings. But his deal is not, and never has, prevented us from making deals. Even this year we had ample cap space before signing Russell.

Will he be worth 6M in future? Ill actually say maybe due to cap going up and comparable UFA signing similar deals. 25 goals will get you 6 mil (its already getting 5.5) pretty soon. There is a risk however that his deal prevents future moves, so we can deal with it then

But sorry to think exposing and losing Eberle in expansion draft is one of dumbest ideas I have ever heard on HFOil, or just HF alone. Eberle is an asset that can be used to acquire a good prospect, a top 4 D or other. To light that on fire and throw it away due to 13 games is crazy. We could instead expose and lose a 4M Pouliot with significant lower value in the market.

If Eberle returned a top 4 dman then Taylor Hall is still on this team. You will be surprised at how little he does return given the $6 million price tag for his "services" if he's moved. Small one dimensional 20 goal scorers with a $6 million price tag are not hot items. You also vastly under-estimate the value of cap space - especially a sum as large as $6 million. That can get you a very nice player in free agency (potentially better than Eberle) or by being able to take on a large contract for a player that fits better that someone else wants to move. The NHL is behind the curve of other cap leagues like the NFL where team cut loose good players all the time to create cap space to sign an incrementally better player.

 

[Aceboogie]

If Eberle returned a top 4 dman then Taylor Hall is still on this team. You will be surprised at how little he does return given the $6 million price tag for his "services" if he's moved. Small one dimensional 20 goal scorers with a $6 million price tag are not hot items. You also vastly under-estimate the value of cap space - especially a sum as large as $6 million. That can get you a very nice player in free agency (potentially better than Eberle) or by being able to take on a large contract for a player that fits better that someone else wants to move. The NHL is behind the curve of other cap leagues like the NFL where team cut loose good players all the time to create cap space to sign an incrementally better player.

What do you mean? The Oilers dealt for a top pairing D, not a top 4 D. We just acquired 2 top 4 D in FA last 2 years. Top 4 D are regularly dealt not for that much and regulary signed in UFA. I think you really overvalue a #4 D and/or undervlaue ability to score 25 goals

here are some figures from last 5 years since yours were actually a bit unfair to him

Over the last 5 seasons Eberle ranks 11th in Pts/60- tied dead on with John Tavares

Eberles 84 ES goals in that stretch rank 13th for all frowards. Just below Neal, Nash and Kane. But above Toews, Malkin

Eberles goals/60 rank 16th in that stretch. Again just below Kane but abover Skinner/Duchene and hey even Crosby! Just a shade below Tavares and Benn

But yes tell me again how easy it is to do what Eberle does

 

[Aceboogie]

Simple goal scoring is a totally misleading stat as it does not recognize that large differences that exist between players in total ice time and particularly PP time. The proper stat that gives you an honest picture of offensive contribution taking into account these differences in usage is even strength points per 60 minutes of ice time. Here are Eberle's numbers:

2016-17 - 2.04 (#100 forward but worse now as data is 4 games old)
2015-16 - 1.85 (#83 in NHL, bottom-end top line forward)
2014-15 - 1.98 (#64 in NHL, mid-range top line forward)
2013-14 - 1.89 (#94 in NHL, bottom-end top line forward)
2012-13 - 2.28 (#30 in NHL, very good, border line high end top line forward)
2011-12 - 3.04 (2nd in NHL, outstanding)

Here are some noteables players for his range. With +/- 0.05 pts/60

2015-16: Malkin, Sedin, Backstrom, Bergeron, Forsberg, Johansen, Kucherov, Landeskog
2014-15: Datsyuk, Mackinnon, Sedin, Backstrom, Bergeon, ORielly, Hall (below him), Ryan, Hossa
2013-2014: JVR, Carter, Sedin, Stepan, Gallagher, Nash

You get the point

Most are better defensive players but you get the point. The pts/60 is actually a really, really big positive for him.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I appreciate your view into Eberle.

Didn't we have the same conversation about Hall? How he was one of the best contributors in the league at scoring points? It might be true that he is, but he lacks in other areas and we see teams who find great success in the NHL don't really have these types of players on their teams.

Pittsburgh had Kessel, but he was playing 3rd line sheltered minutes. Chicago has Kane but he is one of the most dynamic offensive players in the NHL. Can't compare him with Eberle. L.A. doesn't have a player like this on their team. Maybe Gaborik who was being paid peanuts?

The point is that as backwards as it sounds, there is a lot more to scoring goals in the NHL. Like I mentioned earlier, he's a -8 on a team with a positive goal differential. That's a damning statistic.

You can claim he does such a good job at putting up points! He's top 10/20 in the league at his position! But how many is he giving up the other way? You look at Washington and this is Ovechkin's stat line from 2014-14:

78 51 28 79 48 -35

He scored 51 goals but was a -35 on the year. Obviously he is one of the best goal scorers of all time, and Washington has shored up its defensive woes while Ovi has improved defensively as a player, but can you really say Ovechkin was a positive impact player for Washington that year? His team is losing with him on the ice, not winning.

Give him Oshie, Backes, Eriksson, Kunitz...hell give me prime Pascal Dupuis to line up with McDavid over Eberle. The end goal is to win a Stanley Cup. Washington has been the kings of the regular season because they had a bunch of Eberle type players on offence, but once the playoffs rolled around teams were willing to sacrifice their bodies and start banging those guys around at every opportunity. Wore them down quite easily.

Eberle doesn't have the drive to be a worthwhile option on RW for a Stanley Cup contending team, unless he's being giftwrapped 3rd line minutes against other teams bottom pairing. Even then, there are way better and cheaper options.

If we can package him for a PMD at the deadline, you have to do that.

Love how you casually claim successful teams don't have these types of players, other than, you know, the only teams that have won the cup in the last 5 years.

 

[duul]

Love how you casually claim successful teams don't have these types of players, other than, you know, the only teams that have won the cup in the last 5 years.

What I said was that it seems players like Eberle are only on playoff teams is roles where they need to be heavily sheltered playing against the oppositions worst players, or they are the Art Ross winner.

Eberle is not good enough to be playing with McDavid. He gets shut down completely by players who work harder than him (most of the NHL). So put him on the 3rd line, or trade him for a positional weakness we have (PMD).

 

[Up the Irons]

25g a year is not good enough. He's playing with the best distributing C in the world. 35g/year, minimum.

The thought of McD playing with a 25g scorer for the next 5 years scares me. It would be under serving what we've got.

Not saying give up on Ebs. But if we are going to win the cup we need a guy that can score 35 to 50 goals with our generational centre.

 

[Aceboogie]

25g a year is not good enough. He's playing with the best distributing C in the world. 35g/year, minimum.

The thought of McD playing with a 25g scorer for the next 5 years scares me. It would be under serving what we've got.

Not saying give up on Ebs. But if we are going to win the cup we need a guy that can score 35 to 50 goals with our generational centre.

I can actually agree here. 30-35 is what Id want from him and would be worth 6 mil IF hes with McDavid

Although its been 13 games so waaaay to early make claims he doesnt work with McDavid. But then you have Eberle as a 2nd line option with RNH. A pairing that has worked wonders in the past. So Eberle is not a 1 line option. Eberle is our only small skilled winger. Think about that. He could actually go to a scoring third line and have Maroon-LD has linemates.

I think to many people have this idea lines have to be rigid and set for 50 games at a time before they change

 

[Raoul Duke]

What I said was that it seems players like Eberle are only on playoff teams is roles where they need to be heavily sheltered playing against the oppositions worst players, or they are the Art Ross winner.

Eberle is not good enough to be playing with McDavid. He gets shut down completely by players who work harder than him (most of the NHL). So put him on the 3rd line, or trade him for a positional weakness we have (PMD).

"...we see teams that find great success in the NHL don't really have these types of players on their teams. "
That's what you said.

I sort of agree with you anyway. Not the biggest Eberle fan. Just thought it was funny.
What I will say in favour of Eberle is that we have to have some kind of natural goal scorer on the team and until Pullijarvi turns the corner or someone else is aquired, he's it.

 

[Asiaoil]

I can actually agree here. 30-35 is what Id want from him and would be worth 6 mil IF hes with McDavid

Although its been 13 games so waaaay to early make claims he doesnt work with McDavid. But then you have Eberle as a 2nd line option with RNH. A pairing that has worked wonders in the past. So Eberle is not a 1 line option. Eberle is our only small skilled winger. Think about that. He could actually go to a scoring third line and have Maroon-LD has linemates.

I think to many people have this idea lines have to be rigid and set for 50 games at a time before they change

Actually I agree with this strategy - play him to his strengths against weak opposition while we can afford his cap hit. Putting him on a PvP line with CMD is futile as his -45 +/- over the past 3 seasons shows. Way more pucks are ending up in our own net than the 20 some goals a year he's popping in the opposition's. He's a flawed player with some offensive flair who can put up boxcars on a bad team. But when the going gets serious he far too weak and one dimensional to help - that check he tried to throw yesterday afternoon was laughable and he ended up like he always does - on his ass with the other team laughing theirs off at the futility.

 

[Aceboogie]

Actually I agree with this strategy - play him to his strengths against weak opposition while we can afford his cap hit. Putting him on a PvP line with CMD is futile as his -45 +/- over the past 3 seasons shows. Way more pucks are ending up in our own net than the 20 some goals a year he's popping in the opposition's. He's a flawed player with some offensive flair who can put up boxcars on a bad team. But when the going gets serious he far too weak and one dimensional to help - that check he tried to throw yesterday afternoon was laughable and he ended up like he always does - on his ass with the other team laughing theirs off at the futility.

His possession numbers and shot suppression numbers are actually quite alright... +/- is a horrible stat to use for a bottom feeder team

 

[Asiaoil]

His possession numbers and shot suppression numbers are actually quite alright... +/- is a horrible stat to use for a bottom feeder team

Oilers are not a "bottom-feeder team" this year, he always plays with quality, and he is still a team worst -6 (next worst is -2, CMD is +2 and Looch is 0). Part of that is likely empty net goals but he's got one of his own as well. His possession W/WO numbers are funky in that he NEVER plays with dregs but his usual linemates do take time with lesser players. TMac is incredibly consistent in always giving him best quality linemates - never Letestu, Lander or the like. Tied to CMDs hip last year, and when not with him, always with a possession monster like Hall. That will give him good relative possession numbers and a lousy +/- when he doesn't bother to backcheck and the puck ends up in our net in spite of a corsi advantage driven by linemates. Kind of like the NYI game where he has good overall possession numbers but was wandering around the defensive zone telling other guys where to go instead of checking his man Cizikas who scored. You can generate a ton of shots toward the opponents net which builds positive corsi but a single lazy backcheck that gives up a 5 alarm chance pisses it all away and then some.

He's not useless - he knows what he's doing in the offensive zone and is good for 20-25 goals a year given enough PP time - but he skates way harder going into the offensive zone that coming back on defense. Classic good player on bad team guy and not a good fit at all on this team with this system going forward.

 

[McFlyingV]

25g a year is not good enough. He's playing with the best distributing C in the world. 35g/year, minimum.

The thought of McD playing with a 25g scorer for the next 5 years scares me. It would be under serving what we've got.

Not saying give up on Ebs. But if we are going to win the cup we need a guy that can score 35 to 50 goals with our generational centre.

Eberle's not even signed for 5 more years, he's signed for 2 more after this year. I think Puljujarvi is clearly the winger of the future for McDavid, and I think with his shot you're easily looking at your 30-35 goal scorer.

Eberle is a fine stop gap while guys like Jesse, Caggiula, Benson, etc. develop. Its also still entirely possible he pots 30 this year. He scored at a 35 goal pace with McDavid last year, and has always been a slow starter in terms of goal scoring. The goals will come.

 

[Asiaoil]

Last 9 games: 0 goals, 3 points, -6

Eberle is still stapled to McDavid's hip in practice again today whether he plays well or not - and it doesn't seem to matter how long he sucks. They moved Hall off his line when it didn't work, they moved Looch, but they won't move Eberle. What gives?

 

[Jet Walters]

Last 9 games: 0 goals, 3 points, -6

Eberle is still stapled to McDavid's hip in practice again today whether he plays well or not - and it doesn't seem to matter how long he sucks. They moved Hall off his line when it didn't work, they moved Looch, but they won't move Eberle. What gives?

Specifically on the road, if the opposition is going to match up their best players against 97, I much prefer making them pay the price physically for that choice. Eberle doesn't fit that mold. As a top pair defenseman it's one thing to have to worry about shutting down McDavid's speed and skill. It adds a whole different element to the game when you have to worry about being crushed into the boards in the corner and having your hands full in front of the net with a big nasty powerforward, as well as worry about 97.

 

[Asiaoil]

Eberle's not even signed for 5 more years, he's signed for 2 more after this year. I think Puljujarvi is clearly the winger of the future for McDavid, and I think with his shot you're easily looking at your 30-35 goal scorer.

Eberle is a fine stop gap while guys like Jesse, Caggiula, Benson, etc. develop. Its also still entirely possible he pots 30 this year. He scored at a 35 goal pace with McDavid last year, and has always been a slow starter in terms of goal scoring. The goals will come.

Agree about the Finn but you are making stuff up about Eberle's scoring with McDavid. He had a hot start in the first 6 games together - but team's figured that out pretty quickly and shut them down. Here is Eberle's line with Mcdavid pretty much full time, best match-ups possible, best PP time possible over the last 39 games (pretty much a half season)

39GP 10G-13A-23P

That adjusts to 21G-27A-48P for a full 82 games season. It's not near enough and half a season is more than enough opportunities.

Like I've said over and over, any decent 2nd line NHL RW could put up those numbers with Eberle's PP time and a center like McDavid - likely at at half the price and with better defense tossed in. There is no evidence that Eberle is a good match for McDavid offensively and plenty that he's a liability in the defensive zone.